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RC4's for a beginner

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
I got a little problem on my hands now. After I went a bunch of times skiing with friends the past two winters I decided to buy ski's for this season instead of renting them every time. Silly me, without doing any kind of research I ended up buying a set of used fischer RC4's at a local ski sale. 

Now that I have them home, I looked them up online, and I found out that they are a race ski and not recommended for beginners...

Now my question is, should I still give it a try with these skis?  Are they going to be dangerous for me? Or should I just put them up on ebay and look for something else?
post #2 of 24
What exactly do they say besides RC4; there are a lot of different RC4s.
post #3 of 24
Thread Starter 
They say "WorldCup Giant Slalom"  and "Frequency Tuning"
post #4 of 24
length?

are there numbers on the tail? r>xx?
post #5 of 24
 lol...  just keep it low angle and get used to them first.  Otherwise, bring a chauffeur because you're going to be in the backseat the whole time.  Maybe even the rumbleseat.

If you stand next to them, where do they come to?  Collarbone?  Chin?  Eyes?       
post #6 of 24
Thread Starter 
lol.... the length is 173.  When I stand next to them they come right to my chin.   Numbers on the tail say R > 21
post #7 of 24
I didn't think they made GS skis that short. 
In any event, there are better skis to learn on than a GS ski, unless you like going very fast, in which case I still would say your learning will be difficult with the GS skis.
post #8 of 24
That was the shortest length Fischer Women's GS in e.g. the '05 or '06 season. Too short for WC, but I think they were okay for Masters. With the slightly softer female flex, sensible radius and shorter length they could be manageable - more like a stiff cheater than a full bore GS. But not an ideal beginners ski.
post #9 of 24
To be honest, I doubt these skis are manageable for beginners. As long as they are real race skis (and considering 21m radius they are), they are far from manageable for beginners. As we were discussing in other thread, race stock skis ski differently then consumer race skis. And normally, consumer race skis are (and were) far from 21m radius for GS skis.
So in my opinion, best option is to sell them, or save them for later, and for now get some "normal" skis. Skiing with race stock skis, especially with radius like this, is anything but fun for beginners.
post #10 of 24
Do you think you will get more than 20 days in this season or next?

If yes, save them for later.  

If 173cm comes up to your chin, you are around 6'?

Do you have boots yet?
post #11 of 24
Those are excellent skis.  That said...  they are not going to be that fun for a novice.  Couple things...

I am an athletic 180# serious beer league racer (is there such a thing?).  I am on the same ski in 175s.  For me it is a good cheater for our tight GS style course.  It is NOT that fun for an all day cruiser.

Depending on your size, they sound - believe it or not -  a bit long.  The radius >21 means there is not a ton of sidecut.  A better learning tool would be a something with a more pronounced "shape" and some softer flex.

These skis like to be driven HARD.  They just don't start to perform until you get up some good speed then crank over onto some big edge angles.  Then they are a delight.  Stable, great on firm and ice and responsive but more forgiving (imo) than their Atomic or Blizzard competitors.

There are a billion choices.  But something you might look for on e-bay are the Fisher SL skis in about 165.  These are beefy but super turny and a good learner for tipping the ski into a sweet carved arc.  ALSO, the binding plates on Fischer skis are interchangeable.  Yes you have to unmount the binding, from the plate, but then the plate comes off with a couple of screws.  Switch plates and remount the bindings and no drilling etc required.  ANYONE who is reasonbly handy can do this in 20 minutes.  You need a BIG phillips screw driver. 

THAT SAID - I have done this many times and not killed myself.  Perhaps I am lucky.  BUT if you have any doubt in your skills, take 'em to a qualified technician.  Bring money.
post #12 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by primoz View Post

To be honest, I doubt these skis are manageable for beginners. As long as they are real race skis (and considering 21m radius they are), they are far from manageable for beginners. As we were discussing in other thread, race stock skis ski differently then consumer race skis. And normally, consumer race skis are (and were) far from 21m radius for GS skis.
So in my opinion, best option is to sell them, or save them for later, and for now get some "normal" skis. Skiing with race stock skis, especially with radius like this, is anything but fun for beginners.
 

+1
post #13 of 24
 Did you get bindings mounted on the skis yet? If not, can you return them to the store where you got them? Someone here will probably correct me if I'm wrong on this, but you'll probably lose money if you try to sell them yourself - which would suck if they've never been used.

As for what to buy - are you an absolute beginner or only have a couple of seasons under your belt?  Either way, I wouldn't spend a lot of money on skis as I don't think you'd really notice a huge difference between the varying models.  More important is are they appropriate length for you and are they stiff enough for your weight (more of an issue if you deal with eastern ice). And of course get boots that fit snugly but comfortably.

Do others really think a race ski would be so bad for a beginner?  (note no tone intended - it's a sincere question :) ).  I wonder about that.  I know they'd be harder to get short radius turns out of them, but most newbie skiers aren't doing many of them anyhow.  I have been teaching for about 10 years, and other than some kids who's skis were way too long for them, I don't recall many situations where someone had problems on a performance ski.  Granted I am not certain any of them were on high performance skis but odds are some were as I live in a high tech town so lots of geeks!  

I guess my point there is that if the skis are already mounted, in which case you would be effectively selling them as used, why not give them a whirl?

Too bad you didn't get the RC4 Race SC - that is one fine all mountain ski. :) 

Elsbeth
post #14 of 24
 race skis are fun as hell to ski on... if you can carve out a turn and bend the skis. Since they are the woman's version (softer) and shorter than a normal gs ski they might be ok. but they will still require you to drive them. depends on your technique. if you think you're good enough then go for it. Getting a pair of high performance skis with a good tune helped my technique more than my crappy soft old beginner skis which didn't help me at all, but granted i'd been skiing and skating for a lonnnggg time before that. 

And if you don't want them i might consider buying them from you.. although i'm more in need of an sl ski
post #15 of 24
Do I think race stock skis would be bad for beginners? Yes, I really do. It's not about lenght, it's not about stiffness, and it's not about radius. But when you add all those 3 things together, add lack, or even not proper technique and most likely also not enough power (at least right power for skiing), you get ski, which is completely unusable for beginner. And on top of that you add narrow and bumpy track full of people on it and you get combination even I hate, and I spent all my life on race skis ;)

Race skis are a lot of fun for skiing... if you are able to drive them. Especially GS skis need certain speed before you can normally use them. Sure I use them for slipping down the WC courses, so they can be multipurpose :) but I don't count this as skiing. For real skiing, you need some speed, and this speed is definitely too much for beginner. With lower speed it's extremely hard to even put them to turn (talking about real turns not slipping down). So in my opinion, real race skis are definitely not right tool for beginners, and most likely also not for quite few people who are not beginners.
post #16 of 24
Is chin height too much for a beginner?  I thought that was about right.

Has anyone addressed his location?  As the last post said, narrow track and lots of skiers does not agree with a r>21, but do we assume that's where he skis?  If he has enough room to feel out the skis and make wide turns (which I do on my hill usually) then long radius skis can be lots of fun and not terribly hard to learn on.  I'm not familiar with the skis he has though, so perhaps the stiffness will just be too much. 
post #17 of 24
Thread Starter 
Lots of good information here, thanks a lot for the input everybody.  It's much appreciated.

To answer some of the questions, I'm about 6'5 220lb. Again, the ski's are used so I can't return them. The bindings that came on them are Fischer FR11 freeflex.  I'm located in upstate NY close to Syracuse.

 

At this point I'm thinking of giving them a try once the snow falls. If I really feel that I cannot handle them I'll put them up for sale, otherwise I'll just keep using them.  I'd hate to go through the trouble now of selling them and buying new skis if these ones are usable for me.

post #18 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by primoz View Post

Do I think race stock skis would be bad for beginners? Yes, I really do. It's not about lenght, it's not about stiffness, and it's not about radius. But when you add all those 3 things together, add lack, or even not proper technique and most likely also not enough power (at least right power for skiing), you get ski, which is completely unusable for beginner. And on top of that you add narrow and bumpy track full of people on it and you get combination even I hate, and I spent all my life on race skis ;)

Race skis are a lot of fun for skiing... if you are able to drive them. Especially GS skis need certain speed before you can normally use them. Sure I use them for slipping down the WC courses, so they can be multipurpose :) but I don't count this as skiing. For real skiing, you need some speed, and this speed is definitely too much for beginner. With lower speed it's extremely hard to even put them to turn (talking about real turns not slipping down). So in my opinion, real race skis are definitely not right tool for beginners, and most likely also not for quite few people who are not beginners.
 

+1

Good luck, Nooby. So far we only know you've been skiing a bunch of time over two years, so we are assuming you are a beginner. How do you ski? What slopes do you like to ski?
post #19 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by nooby View Post

To answer some of the questions, I'm about 6'5 220lb. Again, the ski's are used so I can't return them.

They might be a bit of a hard teacher, but you'll be fine.  Do you like skiing fast?
post #20 of 24
Thread Starter 
I always stick to the beginner trails. I did ski down some intermediate streches, but my technique is deffinetely lacking.  I have no problem getting down the mountain by using the plow (that's what my friends taught me first). But I have been working and making progress on my carving skills. Unfortunately Last season I didn't go skiing enough times to completely get out of the "plow" phase. If I had went a couple more times I would have without a doubt brought my skills up to an acceptable level.

This being said, this year I will be going much more often which is the reason why I bought the skis. 

To answer ghosts question, I do like skiing fast. I have been picking up lots of speed on some trail streches where it was safe and I enjoyed it
post #21 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by nooby View Post

I always stick to the beginner trails. I did ski down some intermediate streches, but my technique is deffinetely lacking.  I have no problem getting down the mountain by using the plow (that's what my friends taught me first). But I have been working and making progress on my carving skills. Unfortunately Last season I didn't go skiing enough times to completely get out of the "plow" phase. If I had went a couple more times I would have without a doubt brought my skills up to an acceptable level.

This being said, this year I will be going much more often which is the reason why I bought the skis. 
 

 An R~15-17m ski will give you parallel skills far sooner, and will feel more secure on ice because it will start turns to control speed more easily, at lower speeds.

Good luck.
post #22 of 24
Anything is possible but you are making life a lot harder for yourself than it needs to be and your progress will be slower than it needs to be
post #23 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotsSkier View Post

Anything is possible but you are making life a lot harder for yourself than it needs to be and your progress will be slower than it needs to be
 

Agree 100%. You can "ski" on most anything, but I can't think of many skis that would be less well suited to the task. My daughter raced on that exact ski when she was 13, as a first year J3. She was very good, but about 5' 2" and 125 lbs. That's a full-on race GS ski, built for a skilled small skier. At that time the top women were using a ski that was about 180cm. That 173 was one of the only true sandwich construction skis built with a decent layup in that small a length. Volkl built one in a 175 as well, but most companies did not. It was a lot of ski for a small female, but it's not at all suited for your size.  In all honesty, I think it will hinder your learning curve and enjoyment quite a bit, as ScotsSkier says . The ski's a one trick pony, to a large degree. You're not going to begin to carve turns on that ski, for a host of reasons {the radius, the construction, your size, the speed it "likes", etc.}.  I'd look for something different, suited to where you are in your skiing, and your size, as has been suggested. I really think you'd enjoy things a lot more.
post #24 of 24
 always stick to the beginner trails. I did ski down some intermediate streches, but my technique is deffinetely lacking.  I have no problem getting down the mountain by using the plow (that's what my friends taught me first). But I have been working and making progress on my carving skills. Unfortunately Last season I didn't go skiing enough times to completely get out of the "plow" phase.

Lol hey we all started there!  Those skis will be fine but yes a hard teacher.  You are a big dog.  You should grow into them but they do like to go FAST.  At least you will look pretty cool in the lift line!  The bindings are pretty good too.
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