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Hop Turn Help.

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 
I understand the mechanics for good hop turns.

Now who has tips to help me make them better or easier, other than "go do them" (I'm doing that when ever I can)
post #2 of 20
Hey DChan, Try a hard edge set-compression and pole plant with an explosive up rotary..This is a defensive movement----Use that built up energy from the edge set and the compression to continue the hop and the turn....the amount of energy and compression is based on the accumulated G forces developed. I do remember these form my cert. many years ago.. :

[ March 14, 2004, 09:16 AM: Message edited by: Larry C ]
post #3 of 20
Thread Starter 
Thanks,

Anyone else?

How about any dryland exercises to help get the legs back in shape? After I don't know how many years of beating that "up move" out of my skiing the legs have gotten soft [img]tongue.gif[/img]
post #4 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
I do remember these form my cert. many years ago..
Yeah, That's what I'm working on.
:
post #5 of 20
Hop turns needn't be difficult or real athletic if done properly. The key is to be balance over the whole foot first then move slighlty forward and extend off the ball and toes using the legs not the upper body. As soon as the mid section of the ski clears the ground lift the toes while rotating. You can do these without gettting much over few inches off the snow. This is an exercise for showing you're use of ankles without excessive knee and hip movements.

Most people have to much knee and hip into the hill when they extend.
post #6 of 20
Hey Pierre---was good to see you at the Allegheny valley meet at the Springs---Wanted to ski with you guys, but had lessons booked into the afternoon....I think that there will be at least another weekend of skiing---We have EPSIA events
coming up---should be open to make them--been getting snow every night, at the end of the week ,which sets up the weekend----regards---Larry C
post #7 of 20
dchan,
Here's a little cheater trick. Unbuckle your top buckle, you'll be hopping like a bunny!
post #8 of 20
I suspect you are training for L-3 and need this parlor trick in your dog-n-pony show. It truely is a learned "trick" because so many artifical things must be hoogled to make it look pretty.

So that said: Reach as far downhill as possible with a strong pole plant that is timed to your edge-set landing. This will allow you an extended base of support downhill of your edges and allow you to get your upper body further out over, even past, your feet. This will allow you to create (artificially) more edge angle so that the skis reverse camber a least a little for some trampoline effect. Make sure your landing edge-set thru take-off is a smooth continous plyometric movement. Direct your launch out-and-around the planted pole. Do not land, pause, and then take-off or it is even more work.

While an already skilled skier can learn the above with some practice and rehersal, Most students not only cannot, but will not spend the time to learn them. So, from a practical application (not artifical exam) perspective I got to ask: Why practice movemets in a "pretend" situation if those movements do not accuratly reflect those used and required in a "real" situation?

The "hop turn task" that is done on flatter terrain is as unrelated to the actual functional use of a hop turn in a real skiing situation as any two similar appearing activities can be.

If you want to learn to do them so they are actually useful, learn to do them on steep terrain.

In the phony version on flat terrain the only direction you can functionally jump is up (vertical). The dangerious experience too many skiers have trying to do this on steep terrain (when their safety depends on it) is that they cannot jump vertical far enough so the tails of their skis won't get caught on the slope uphill behind them. They wind up landing half-way around pointed dead down the falline and way in the back seat. Exactly what the wanted to avoid! And they are confused as to why trying that hop turn thing their instructor taught them on the flats so they would be safe on the steeps actually made thing worse?
In a real situation on steep terrain you jump "out and away" from slope, not "up" vertically from it. This aligns the body axis more perpendicular to the slope so the skis can be cleanly pivoted parallel to the slope. The gravity to slope relationship of steep terrain cannot be replicated on flat terrain.

On flat terrain the skis land on a minimal edge angle and cannot create any signifigant reverse camber trampoline effect that comes so easily on steeper terrain because of the built-in edge angle between the slope and vertical. So instead of learning to use ski technology with finesse and accuracy, you learn to be physically crude and imprecise, that last thing you should aspire to on the steeps.

This in a prime example of a pretty usless, even negative, task that use of reflects a lack of awareness of what to practice, or why, and how to apply it. :
post #9 of 20
Thread Starter 
Thanks Arc,

Never the less it is a part of the L3 exam

Your explaination is a big help. Like I mentioned if needed I can do hop turns in the steeps. I've just "beaten" complete hop turns out of my skiing for the most part. now I get to put them back in.


My clinician said I do them pretty well. I have found however that I just don't have the muscle strength or stamina to do 15 or 20 of them in succession. Everyone's tips here (thanks everyone) will help me (I hope) [img]tongue.gif[/img] do them a bit more effeciently and not be dying at the end of the task.

DC
post #10 of 20
Your extension needs to be perpendicular to whatever slope surface you're on.

Use the snap built up in your edge set to help you save strength.

Finally, extend fully smoothly rather than in a rush and pull your feet up a bit as part of the change in orientation/edge.

Oh, yeah, remember to breathe.
post #11 of 20
I'm no instructor - usually hang here to learn, but... that's my turn (working to remove it...)

ankles ankles ankles... just give a little ankle wiggle - flattening ski for moment then re-edge while planting pole foward and down hill- pop goes the weasel...
post #12 of 20
Quote:
Originally posted by dchan:


How about any dryland exercises to help get the legs back in shape? After I don't know how many years of beating that "up move" out of my skiing the legs have gotten soft [img]tongue.gif[/img]
Ever hear of a BOSU ball? ( BOSU)) It's endorsed by the US Ski Team as a training tool. One of the videos I use has exercises that train your "quickswitch" muscles. I can't remember the real muscle name, but training them has definately helped me make quicker turns in skiing. (I think LisaMarie is a BOSU master, she may have way better explanation of how this works if you are interested).

As for on the snow help, I'll leave that to all the expert instructors on the board
post #13 of 20
xrisi421, which BOSU video are you referring to? I only have the one that came with the bosu. Also, do you mean "fast twitch" muscles?
post #14 of 20
People who have trouble with hop turn usually cannot set an edge and/or are too quick. Its that old school move - edge set, rebound, pivot. I think most people try to pivot too early, before the skis rebound, so its out of sync. The guys that do it really well, its effortless, because they are using the energy from the skis. The ones who are out of sync, are hopping up & down like bunny rabits & getting winded.

It also helps to maintain a stable upper body & a blocking pole plant at the edge set - its old school.

Patience & let the energy from the ski build up before pivoting.
post #15 of 20
Quote:
Originally posted by suebrown:
xrisi421, which BOSU video are you referring to? I only have the one that came with the bosu. Also, do you mean "fast twitch" muscles?
Bosu Reactive Strength and Power with Gay Gasper. If you like your BOSU, I would definately recommend getting some of the DVD's available. They just released 3 new ones too (mine come in this week). I'm not sure what the muscle group is called. Gay always refers to them as "quick switch". All I know is that it helps in skiing!
post #16 of 20
Dchan,

BOSU is a great tool for what you are training for, as well as core strengthening and balance training. In addition to Bosu training, any plyometric excercises, ie: you must use explosive strength to leave the ground, will be helpful. Tuck jumps, box jumps, squat jumps are all good. Since these are pretty, um, vigorous make sure you have warmed up your body before performing these. Plyometric training can be overdone, too, so I'd say 1-2 times per week interspersed with more traditional leg strengthening such as squats, lunges, step ups, etc. Also don't forget to maintain a good cardiovascular base on which to build this strength. If your heart and lungs are effient, hop jumps should be a lot easier.
Think about incorporating some sprint intervals into whatever cardio you are doing. You are doing cardio, right? [img]graemlins/evilgrin.gif[/img]

Sheesh, when ya gonna have time to ski? [img]tongue.gif[/img]
post #17 of 20
Dry land training? How about whenever you come to a flight of stairs, instead of walking up, hop up. Start with both feet on every step. When thats easy hop to every other step. If you are fit and strong enough, go to hoping on 1 foot. Jumping rope should be good also.
post #18 of 20
Dry land training? How about whenever you come to a flight of stairs, instead of walking up, hop up. Start with both feet on every step. When thats easy hop to every other step. If you are fit and strong enough, go to hoping on 1 foot. Jumping rope should be good also.
post #19 of 20
Dry land training? How about whenever you come to a flight of stairs, hop up instead of walking.
Start with both feet on every stair. When that's easy go to hopping to every other stair. If you are fit enough, hop on 1 foot. Also, jumping rope should be a great plyometric/cardio/ rythum builder.
By accident, I found that adding a little pre up/down between each hop turn helped. I don't know what an examiner would think of this, but my 50 years+ legs liked it. In my level III exam 2 weeks ago, only needed hop turns 1 day. Third try was a charm, I passed!
post #20 of 20
Dry land training? How about whenever you come to a flight of stairs, hop up instead of walking.
Start with both feet on every stair. When that's easy go to hopping to every other stair. If you are fit enough, hop on 1 foot. Also, jumping rope should be a great plyometric/cardio/ rythum builder.
By accident, I found that adding a little pre up/down between each hop turn helped. I don't know what an examiner would think of this, but my 50 years+ legs liked it. In my level III exam 2 weeks ago, only needed hop turns 1 day. Third try was a charm, I passed!
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