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Interesting take on DIN - Page 4

post #91 of 107
I prefer solidly built bindings that will last and not crack over plastic crap.  I don't need the high settings, but I can't seem to get a solid high quality binding without them.  It's like I can't get sticky tires without a high speed rating.

I currently set my DIN to 8, recently upped it after coming out of bindings while vigorously sidestepping up a hill.  Chart for III at 7.  When I was younger and weighed 20 lbs less and into skiing very fast I recall being advised to increase din and had used 11 for my high-speed runs (think DH with no course prep).

I really really wonder about how to choose a DIN for recreational high speed skiing.  If I'm skiing at racing speeds, shouldn't my DIN settings be the same as the racers?
post #92 of 107
 Cross,

Maybe you can answer my original question, why does each manufacturer have their own DIN chart? shouldn't there be ONE standard chart (It is DIN afterall) and have the bindings be able to work according to the chart and not the chart to the manufacturer?
post #93 of 107
They all give the same results don't they?   In that case, it's the same chart.  So what if it has a manufacturer's logo on it somewhere.

If they gave out tape measures with their logo on it would you complain about how they all have a different idea of what a foot is?
post #94 of 107
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post

I really really wonder about how to choose a DIN for recreational high speed skiing.  If I'm skiing at racing speeds, shouldn't my DIN settings be the same as the racers?
 


I would say that skiing at racing speeds and skiing through a course at racing speeds are two different things. I also would assume that most of the stress on bindings that occurs during a race comes not from the high speed but the rapid direction changes and such. Darting in and out of gates, making quick adjustments, hitting a lip, dealing with the ruts on the course, etc puts more stress on a binding than would free skiing at the same speed. Free skiers, in general, don't make such drastic and sudden changes in direction, which in turn put a lot of stress on bindings. A racers path is dictated in advance by the gates. A free skier is free to go where he/she likes and does not need to take such drastic measures to stay on a designated path through a series of gates. The end result obviously is that there is, in general, a lot less stress on the bindings for the free skier skiing at the same speed as the racer. I would think that the DIN for the racer and the DIN for the free skier who just likes to ski fast, would not need to be the same.
Edited by MojoMan - 11/6/09 at 6:58am
post #95 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt View Post

They all give the same results don't they?   In that case, it's the same chart.  So what if it has a manufacturer's logo on it somewhere.

If they gave out tape measures with their logo on it would you complain about how they all have a different idea of what a foot is?

No they do not there is discrepancies between the charts. Tyrolia is different, 1. they have a measurement for a boot below 230mm, all others do not. There are other cells that a Tyrolia will have a different setting then some other manufacturers. 
post #96 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post

 Cross,

Maybe you can answer my original question, why does each manufacturer have their own DIN chart? shouldn't there be ONE standard chart (It is DIN afterall) and have the bindings be able to work according to the chart and not the chart to the manufacturer?

I only dealt with Marker, Salomon, Look, and Atomic. Out of those Marker was really the only one that had things that varied. It all had to do with the mechanical workings of the bindings. Marker has the mechanical release toe that no one else has. This could make for a difference.
post #97 of 107
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post




No they do not there is discrepancies between the charts. Tyrolia is different, 1. they have a measurement for a boot below 230mm, all others do not. There are other cells that a Tyrolia will have a different setting then some other manufacturers. 

I think Tyrolia has a higher ramp agle and stand height than other brands, at least the Railflex models do. Perhaps this has something to do with it.
post #98 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by MojoMan View Post





I would say that skiing at racing speeds and skiing through a course at racing speeds are two different things. I also would assume that most of the stress on bindings that occurs during a race comes not from the high speed but the rapid direction changes and such. Darting in and out of gates, making quick adjustments, hitting a lip, dealing with the ruts on the course, etc puts more stress on a binding than would free skiing at the same speed. Free skiers, in general, don't make such drastic and sudden changes in direction, which in turn put a lot of stress on bindings. A racers path is dictated in advance by the gates. A free skier is free to go where he/she likes and does not need to take such drastic measures to stay on a designated path through a series of gates. The end result obviously is that there is, in general, a lot less stress on the bindings for the free skier skiing at the same speed as the racer. I would think that the DIN for the racer and the DIN for the free skier who just likes to ski fast, would not need to be the same.

 

This makes sense to me. Ruts and roughness of the track from repeated skiers often results in releases in racing. These won't exist on an open trail (I don't condone race speeds on open trails, but that's in another thread).
post #99 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by volantaddict View Post

It seems an issue worthy of attention on TGR also..
 

Despite the gangster talk on TGR, these guys have pretty sensible DIN settings, for the most part. Maybe this macho DIN setting talk is just that: talk not reality.

What I hear there and here is that the better bindings (metal, not plastic) just come with higher DINs. People are buying for the quality of steel, but setting their DINs in reasonable ranges.
post #100 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by MojoMan View Post





I would say that skiing at racing speeds and skiing through a course at racing speeds are two different things. I also would assume that most of the stress on bindings that occurs during a race comes not from the high speed but the rapid direction changes and such. ........ I would think that the DIN for the racer and the DIN for the free skier who just likes to ski fast, would not need to be the same.

 

I gate keep some and hear things. What I hear is that the race ski releases when the racer does not weight and drive the ski adequately, the ski then chatters, vibration through the entire ski, and the binding releases. It's kinda counter-intuitive. more pressure on the ski means less chatter.
post #101 of 107
Racers have to weigh their safety preferences.  They know they will get hurt at some point...it has to happen.  Whether they want to crank down their Atomic Race steels to 18 (or whatever they are using) and risk a more serious injury is the question only they can answer.  Bode obviously does not.  Matthias Lazinger did and lost his lower leg.   Steve Podborski perhaps lost an Olympic gold due to a pre-release, and the Lazinger's of the world don't want it happening to them.

I thank the above posters for bringing up a problem that was foreign to me,. The issue of tourque changing over time (for whatever reason) is frightening.  I'll have my bindings check out this month.  In the future I intend to go with one manufacturer for all my bindings in an effort to make things more consistent.
Edited by quant2325 - 11/6/09 at 9:55pm
post #102 of 107
Well I don't speed that much these days.  Sometimes I get the urge to ski moderately fast, but I'm usually on a small hill, so DH speeds are not reachable.  I usually don't even bother to up my DIN from the charted (III+) 8.

However, going from memory when I was 145 lbs and used to search out speed with a little more determination and upped my DIN to 11, my main concern when speeding for fun without the gates was the jarring when going over bumps or ruts at speed, particularly frozen ruts or small frozen moguls after a few freeze-thaw cycles.  The frozen ruts are very similar to what you would find in a race track after the race.  .That, and the impact loading from landing air off rollers and whale backs at high speed with a bit of a new edge set so as not to go into the woods.  I can't remember how I came up with that number, maybe I applied a "safety factor" of 2 (2* DIN = setting) based on common engineering practice
post #103 of 107
It's not that complicated...I like the F1 analogy.  If all I'm going to do is cruise around in an SUV, then whatever I have for suspension, braking assist, all wheel drive assist, and so forth is just fine.  I'm essentially doing the same thing as saying "I'm...lemme see...a Type 1, or II, or III skier, and I'm this age, and I weigh this much, so...gimme my DIN."  Ski racing, however, or performance skiing, or whatever you want to call it, has a different dynamic.  Now it's  "Okay...I'm in a LeMans prototype, coming into the end of the Mulsanne straight doing about 220 mph...what do I want for a suspension/rear wing/brake system/and so forth?"  The standard DIN "this is my ability" cards don't go anywhere near F1 racing...and maybe they shouldn't...but in terms of where you set your bindings, it's got to be an intelligent choice based on who you are and what you're about to do, not what some binding companies Risk Assessment Coordinator dictated for the message on a fold-out card...

post #104 of 107
Until recently I never even paid attention to my din settings beyond making sure they were right for the chart. However I started using demo's a lot because it was cheaper then checking all of my skiis and I liked trying lots of stuff out. Two years ago I was on some demos I picked up at Alta on the recommended Dim settings, and I popped out on a small drop, fracturing my wrist. Until I popped out, I was in total control.

Since then I always ask for the waiver and ask the shops to put me several notches above what is recommended.
post #105 of 107
I'm 6 foot 180 lbls and ski a 7 on Marker 12.0s and have yet to have a binding release when it shouldn't have. Until I do I see no need to crank it up to anything higher than an 8 or 9 (for recreational racing)
post #106 of 107
200 lbs and a DIN of 4.
It's just a matter of time before you crash hard.
A big clump of slush or thick snow will yank your ski off and you will eat it big time.

Bryan
post #107 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morrison Claystone View Post




Might as well just bolt the boots to the skis.
 

Seriously.....that's bananas, especially since you aren't making any turns when speed skiing whats that point of that insanity?


Quote:
Originally Posted by mudfoot View Post




Holy Sh*t!!!  I didn't realize the DIN actually went to 30.  The untimate unit extension device. Those would be great if you weighed 300 lbs, dropped a 100 ft, cliff and landed head first.  Your skis would stay on and your could roll into a ski out turn.
 

No no, haven't you read the threads? A Marker 30 is equivalent to everyone elses 15...its all good.
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