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Versatile medium-expert fast skies reviews

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 
I am looking for versatile medium-high level skis, for being able to go at high velocity but if it is possible, not lose too much in slalom and not being too much stiff. Always piste. I'm 5' 10'' 160 pounds and I've read a lot, but now I have to decide between (all 170cm):

- Rossi Zenith Z3 OS TPI + Aximum 110s (versatile, cheap, but probably not too fast. they aren't the traditional Z3, they're white, with a sticker of 3.0 basalt 0S, I've seen them called Z3.5 at some place)
- Rossi Z6 + Axium 120 (I suposse that better than the Z3 with similar characteristics, but... slow?)
- Head Supershape + FFPro 11 (I've read a very good review about them!)
- Atomic Race ST + XTO 12 Sport (better or worse than the Supershape?)
- Head Supershape Speed (I don't know if I can found them at good price, but seems very good, although probably bad for small turns)
- DYNASTAR CONTACT 10 172 09 + PX12 (comparing to the Head and Atomic?)

What do you think?

Thank you very much!!


PD: Which flex index do you recomend for the boots for this kind of skis?


Another possibilities at similar price: Salomon Lord, Head Icon TT 60.0 + RF11, Salomon K Equipe 20 Series + Z10, ATOMIC - SYS RACE LT RED/WHI/XTO 10,...
post #2 of 18
This sounds a bit like a troll post but I will assume it's legit.

How did you compile this list? Some of those skis are in different leagues in terms of the charctetersitic you mentioned. 

Some of them are as different from one another as you can get.

What level of skier are you and what boots do you use?
post #3 of 18
Thread Starter 
As I've said, I'm searching for medium-high level skis, so I don't want a too much technical ones (that is only high-level), but I want an ski at least a little bit worthing at high level (so, medium-high, as I've said, not too much stiff, no too much flexible), and in the conditions that I mentioned (edit: only piste, and no free ride, no jump). I think that I gave all the information that I could give. The boots... I will buy ones, and in fact I asked for opinion in my post (after selecting the skis, I will select de boots according to them. I heard that if the skis are stiff, the boots sould be rigid, if not, it doesn't matter too much). But you don't response anything nor corroborate any of my doubtful affirmations...

The list is the list of skis avalaible at good rate price/quality in the shops that I've seen and acording to the recomendations of sellers and reviews that I've read, but many times sellers and reviews are a little bit confuse. After talking with a seller you are completely convinced about taking the skis that he/she said, but after investigating a little bit more or talking to other, it doesn't seem the same. For example, after my first shop, I was convinced about taking the Head's Peak 73, and they are more medium than medium-high skis, no? So I don't want to waste money, and this kind of post would be helpful for others in my situation. I need to hear good and bad things about them, and the things that I heard are not sufficient to decide... and I fact, as I've said, I'm not sure about my affirmations.

They are not equivalent skis, sure, but I don't understand you about the leagues... Z3 and Z6 are a little bit cheaper, but the others are more or less in the same range of price, and in fact I think that Dynastar, Head Supershape and Atomic Race ST ARE equivalent, more or less... and the Supershape Speed, If you trust the review that I've seen, is similar but worse in small turns and better in stability

As a summary, I think that the three mentioned are the skis that I want, but I need more information to decide (stiffness of any one? easier to ski?....), and the Z3 & Z6 are worse if I seach for speed, and the Speed wont be versatile (and I'm searching for versatility and speed). Is this really true??

Hope to understand now.

And if you have any other suggestion sufficiently worthing for look for more skis and more shops, just tell me, I will appreciate that.

Thank you.
Edited by noralthair - 11/1/09 at 5:16pm
post #4 of 18
Thread Starter 
Even more concretely...

After seing the review of the Head's Supershape here:

http://www.skipressworld.com/usa/ski-finder.html

(Ski finder -> show more filters -> head -> show less filters)

I thought "they are my skis". But if you tell me that they are not ass versatile/fast/easy to ride as they claim to be... I'll go for the Z's... and if you tell me that the Z6 is different than the Z3 and less versatile, I'll go for the Z3. And the others in the list are possibilities to compare to the Supershape (and I can get the Atomic Race ST for less than the Supershape...).

Edit: Another possibility: Head Supershape Magnum  Less fast to change between edges but more stability? seems more versatile for me than the normal one...
Edited by noralthair - 11/1/09 at 5:14pm
post #5 of 18
Wow, you seem to be all over the board.  First, where do you ski (east, west?) and what do you like to ski.  Then be honest about your skill level and that should point you in the right direction.  Frankly, if you ask you answer the questions honestly, you'll end up with a good ski.

However, first find a good boot fitter who asks questions and can put you in the right boot for you.  No amount of advice on the Internet can replace a good boot fitter. 
post #6 of 18
Thread Starter 
I ski in Europe (north of Spain, and I will be the complete season in Switzerland, going each weekend to different places: France, Switzerland, north of Italy,...), and the next one in the north of Spain again. My level is not much good right now, but I preffer to learn in a more difficult way than buying 2 pairs of skis in few years, and definitely, I prefer this than renting. This is the first thing in which I were completely sure. I learnt without an expert skier as a teacher (but I've know people that needed that), and some friends recommend me to do the same as they, to take medium/advanced skis from the beginning, capable of going fast time after in red and black pistes (as they do now). So this is my decission, if no one can confirm me the affirmations above about these skis, I will go for the Atomic Race ST (today a seller explained be that it's easier to turn with them due to their oversized shape, than the Head Supershape, and sounds better for the not advanced skier).

On the other hand, I will find the perfect boot in person, sure, before buying the skis in order to get it adjusted, but I only wanted advice in the flex index, and I want to decide about skis and boots after buying any of those. In fact I'm used to the skates, and I think that i preffer higher stiffness in the boots (without entering in too much technical boots).

Edit: What I like to ski.. as I've said: not freestyle, nor jumping, a little bit slalom, more speed, always piste. Not too technical, I want enjoy and easy-to-ride as long as It doesn't sacrifice too much velocity.
post #7 of 18
Your first purchase should be boots, not skis. If you're going to pay more anywhere, it should be to buy the right boots, and getting them fitted properly.  As far as flex index of the boot in relation to the stiffness of the ski, a good bootfitter will put you in the proper flex for your ability, and that will be compatible with the ski stiffness of your ability level.

That being said, don't buy a ski that will be too much for you. When learning, you're better off buying a ski that will be a little more forgiving. A ski that is too aggressive can really hold your learning back. Yes, having a lower level ski means that you'll have to replace it eventually. But if you start in a higher level ski, it will probably take you much longer to get to a level where you will be able to use that ski to its full potential.
post #8 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by noralthair View Post

I ski in Europe (north of Spain, and I will be the complete season in Switzerland, going each weekend to different places: France, Switzerland, north of Italy,...), and the next one in the north of Spain again. My level is not much good right now, but I preffer to learn in a more difficult way than buying 2 pairs of skis in few years, and definitely, I prefer this than renting. This is the first thing in which I were completely sure. I learnt without an expert skier as a teacher (but I've know people that needed that), and some friends recommend me to do the same as they, to take medium/advanced skis from the beginning, capable of going fast time after in red and black pistes (as they do now). So this is my decission, if no one can confirm me the affirmations above about these skis, I will go for the Atomic Race ST (today a seller explained be that it's easier to turn with them due to their oversized shape, than the Head Supershape, and sounds better for the not advanced skier).

What do you mean by 'speed' and 'fast'?    30kph?   40kph?  60kph? 
 

On the other hand, I will find the perfect boot in person, sure, before buying the skis in order to get it adjusted, but I only wanted advice in the flex index, and I want to decide about skis and boots after buying any of those. In fact I'm used to the skates, and I think that i preffer higher stiffness in the boots (without entering in too much technical boots).

The bootfitter you go to will decide on the flex once you explain everything you've said here.   

I think you'll probably wind up in 100-110.
post #9 of 18
Thread Starter 
Hum... I think that all this is contrary to what some sellers told me (and I not saying that you're wrong, of course! :S). I've heard that If I want slalom -> more stiffness and shorter skis -> stiff boots are complusory. If I want velocity -> less stiffness necessary (and longer skates) -> not neccesary too much stiff boots.

So is it wrong? Are more important my physical characteristics and concrete level than the style?

I've been not only in supermarkets, I've been in a pair of big specialized sky shops in the center of Geneva, and  for example in one of those talked about the skis, selected one, and as they were clossing, I wanted to return and select the boots, and they didn't tell me: not, first the boots :(
post #10 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by noralthair View Post

 I've heard that If I want slalom -> more stiffness and shorter skis -> stiff boots are complusory. If I want velocity -> less stiffness necessary (and longer skates) -> not neccesary too much stiff boots.

That sounds reasonable but I would say it does not even start to apply to you until you are a club racer.

So is it wrong? Are more important my physical characteristics and concrete level than the style?

Not wrong.   Yes,  much, much more important your physical characteristics and concrete level.

I've been not only in supermarkets, I've been in a pair of big specialized sky shops in the center of Geneva, and  for example in one of those talked about the skis, selected one, and as they were clossing, I wanted to return and select the boots, and they didn't tell me: not, first the boots :(

Shop there only if  you think 30kph is fast.
post #11 of 18
Boots should always be the first purchase and don't be cheep.  A good boot-fitter will listen to how you ski and what you ski and help you decide on the best boot to buy.  The assessment of stiffness above is correct but if you're an expert or a racer.  The recreational skier and especially an intermediate who looks to improve should listen to an expert fitter. 

Hint, a good boot fitter listens, measures your foot, tries the shell on your foot without the liner, then puts the boot on your foot.  You should go through this process at least 3 or 4 times with different boots and if you do it right it will take 2 to 3 hours. 

A good pair of boots will mean all the difference no matter what ski is under them!

By the way, I lived in Southern Germany for 6 years and skied all over the alps and in my experience it is very difficult to find a good boot-fitter in Europe.  I think this has to do with customer service, which was always sparse in Europe.  My suggestion is don't go to Geneva to buy them, go to your favorite mountain and ask the ski patrol or instructors where they buy their boots. 
post #12 of 18
So you've discovered one of the problems with the forum.  Sometimes your question will be answered as you wished and other times you just get random answers that may not be incorrect, but aren't what you were hoping to hear.  Anyway, on with my post.

The review you mentioned will probably be scorned on this site.  Most "official" ski reviews in ski magazines are pretty much advertisements for the skis.  I do like skipress but it's nice to double check what they say with other sites on the internet.  So you can enter in skis you are interested in and find some reviews here.  I know you wanted people to just tell you what to get, but sometimes you get a thread where there are no skis recommended.  And I'm no help because I haven't been on the skis you want and probably won't ever be.

Flexes aren't equivalent between ski boot brands.  So I think it's better to try them out and see what you want or what a boot fitter recommends.

But on the boot fitter part, I haven't ever been "fitted" by a real bootfitter but I can ski and have lots of fun.  And I'm pretty good.  But, I'm pretty poor as a college student.  When I can afford it, I will try to get fitted appropriately.  But if you have normal feet and have been comfortable in boots in the past, I'd say you can keep on until you have the money to spend on "real" boots.  If you have money now, by all means get nice boots that are chosen for your feet.

Sorry about having no good info on skis.  You'll just have to read around this site or perhaps pose this question again at another date.  Or demo demo demo, as everyone around here loves to say.  Ski season is coming up.  Do you want these before the season starts or do you have others you can use for a while.  If you can wait, you can demo some stuff. 
post #13 of 18
I would steer you towards the Magnum.  It is a ski for advanced to expert, yet it's easy to ski and very forgiving considering the performance.  Radius is nice, edge hold is exceptional for a ski of this nature.  The ski feels somewhat soft, yet performs at a level of much stiffer skis.

This is a high performance (relatively) ski that will allow you to grow into.  170.

And I don't think you are a troll
post #14 of 18
Thread Starter 
I was travelling from Switzerland to Spain to spend a week (I`m Spanish) and I had te opportunity of taking the Elan Speedwave 12 08/09 at sale (360€), and I've taken them today. I've talked a lot with the salesman yesterday, and they seem to be quite flexible and not too much hard to control, they can make small and big turns, and at high velocities are hard and resist good the torsion. I've read some good reviews yesterday night, and I decided to do it. But about the boots... I can return them, and so I decided to take them, but they are not precisely cheap... the Atomic Hawks 110. I'm used to hard skates boots and I found too much flexible the starter boots from the begining. I have a slim feet and these boots are simply perfect! Fitting and comfort is total. There are 400€ boots, but if the boots are so important and altough in the far future I could decide to take another pair of skis to do slalom/off piste/whathever... I will use the same boots. Do you think that its a good decission? Do you know any other 100-110 flex boots for slim feet to recommend?
post #15 of 18
Thread Starter 
Ah, and to any one in the same situation as me, the seller told me that for example the Supersharp are very advanced (I don't know if the magnum are less hard or not.. it seems to be less reading the Paul Jones post).
post #16 of 18
Thread Starter 
I've returned the boots cause they was FREESTYLE BOOTS!! The flexing zone was for the receptions after jumping, so I will go for a 100-110 flex piste boot with calm, looking for fitting a 100mm width one (I have an small feet), if not, a 102mm like the Atomic M-tech 110. So if any reader is searching a boot, look carefuly its width! Me feet is slim and in fact those hawks wasn´t much narrow... (appart for being for freestyle) Someone seems used to say: you should go to that manufacturer or to that other... no! Look all the possible ones, but searching for the correct width (and flex), there are lots of models in any manufacturer, so you can find slim boots of a company that people say: no, their boots are thick (as I've found).

This is the kind of response that people need in a forum, but as I found it outside this one, I write it for any reader in the same situation as me.
post #17 of 18
The supershape speed won't tolerate non-carving technique too well and isn't made for slalom turns. If you're not prepared to put it up on a high edge angle and ski fast, it's not for you.  The other supershapes should be fine for intermediate and above users.  The magnum should be fine for you, but for me I wasn't happy with its strength in maintaining grip on ice, not as good as the other supershapes. 

The regular supershape might have a bit too small a turn radius for high speeds imho.

Join expertskier.com for 20 bucks, find skis with about 16 m turn radius that include icon for intermediate skier, and has carving 4 or 5, and other abilities you are looking for and then choose the best deal you can find ( usually lots of very good deals on never used but two years old left-over skis).  The deal will save you your 20 bucks..

Boots have to fit properly.  You need to get referred to a good boot fitter.
post #18 of 18
You know one of the best features of this forum is the advise you get.  Here someone is asking about skis but forgets about boots.  This a common error a lot of people make for some reason and it's up to us to try to steer them straight.  So if someone is looking for skis who hasn't been on skis for a while it's up to us to offer the best advise we can and that's "buy boots first from a GOOD boot-fitter".   Buying  $1200 skis when you have cr_p boots makes no sense. 
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