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Students; Favorite and most Hated Exercises

post #1 of 65
Thread Starter 
I thought it would be fun to get a student's perspective on this.

Faves: Garlands, Falling leaves "2flat2"

Hate: Picture frame pole exercise, serve the tea pole exercise, ski without poles playing follow the leader on a coirse that is way too feakin crowded to follow the leader
post #2 of 65
Nice LM. I want to hear more please.
post #3 of 65
Love: Following an instructor and being able to keep up and be in his tracks.

Hate: When I was a beginner, having to side step up a hill before skiing down it.

Love: Instructor saying "it's a powder day, make your own tracks down this bowl"

Hate: It's a powder day, instructor telling me to be in his tracks.

Love: Simple little tips that I can understand (right brain) and feel working (left brain)

Hate: Anyone who is at a noticably different level to the rest of the students.

Love: Cute instructors - they are easier (and more of a pleasure) to follow.

post #4 of 65
While there's a grey area I would suggest trying to differentiate between poor instruction/instructional approaches you've encountered and hated exercises. A "follow me" drill of any kind in a crowded situation seems to me more poor thinking and flawed instruction then anything else.
post #5 of 65
Yeah. Follow me in crowds is risk management 101 stuff.

Follow me can lead to great things, though that depends on who you're following.
post #6 of 65
Love - anything followed up with:
"Now lets dial it up and apply it, top to bottom"

Hate - anything that has to do with jumping up and down on flat terrain. (hop turns, aka: elephant stompers)

Love - anything that creates a new awareness of what I'm doing.

Hate - anything that only the instructor can do (only because they've practiced it alot), see hop turns above.

Hate - anything artifical that doesn't transfer into real sking.
(skiing thru bumps with poles balanced across wrists)

Hate - anything that with a focus on firing an isolated muscle (vs. focus on the purpose, and notice what muscles are used)

Love - anything that leaves the group laughing and smiling all the way back up the chair.

post #7 of 65
Hate- hop turns. With a passion.

Love- Javelin turns and other balance exercises. Working on snowblades in bumpy conditions (lot of work, but it translates when you get back on your regular skis). Any pole exercise that squares the body to the hill...

To be honest, I like pretty much any drill that can be applied to some part of my skiing. As long as the explanation of why we're doing it is in there somewhere and there is some way for me to tell if I'm doing it "right" without the instructor telling me, I feel it is a valuable exercise. What use is a drill if you can't do it without the instructor around?
post #8 of 65
Love- railroad tracks -instant visual assessment.

Hate-anything to do with clocks just too much figuring

Love-skiing without poles-makes things happen at the feet

Hate-too much talking not enough skiing

post #9 of 65
Thread Starter 
Believe it or not, when i'm actually on the slopes, I also hate too much talking in the class, especially if its freezing cold! Its always funny to watch an intstructor yammer away, while the students are standing there shivering, probably not taking in a word, just thinking, "can we get moving, darnit!"
post #10 of 65
ATM - these are my favourites - I think they change though..

Figure eights in fresh snow - easy to think about doing - easy to see how well I did from the lift or on the next trip(to the side of the last pair). Makes me WORK hard at getting the rhythm right - else they are a mess!

Skating(Ok I'm useless at this - but I can at least know what I'm doing & why & try to get better)

Jumping - especially in a pipe - I insist on making it hard by refusing to ski up the walls - so I jump in the stupidest spot - but hey - if I land Ok then I learn more about balancing. (Again I can't jump to save myself - the junior instructors keep a running commentary going each week for me)Please note - only do this for 1 instructor!

1000 steps & javelin turns - mmmmm wish the bastards would stop making the aim more difficult...

Hand to snow in BIG FAST turns - oooo - like that I can feel when I do it.

short turns hands on hips or knees - mmmmm soon sorts stuff out

playing with the ski school race course

ski on 1 ski - which part of I can't stand on 1 leg on ground didn't you understand?

Anything involving 'touchy feely' instructions - you might think it feels like pushing on accelerator pedal - sure doesn't feel anything like that to me. If you want me to try to move forefott down JUST SAY IT DAMN IT!
post #11 of 65
Would someone describe what is meant by a javelin turn?
post #12 of 65
If it makes you guys feels any better... most instructors I know can't stand hop turns either. They suck. Even if you are good at them. Especially on flat terrain. (Fist defiantly in the air) I'm with you!!!!

Spag :
post #13 of 65
Javelin turn-pick up uphill ski and turn it to parallel the fall line...maintain the lifted uphill ski in the direction of the fall line as you do your turn.

I've never figured out when you do the transition from one ski to the other...at the fall line or at the top of the turn?

[ November 12, 2002, 04:32 PM: Message edited by: KeeTov ]
post #14 of 65
Hate drills. I don't teach them, I don't like to do them. I don't like teachers to teach me them, because I'm not gonna go and practice them on my own.

(I respect instructors that do them well in a compelling fashion where everyone enjoys it and feels the transfer. I'm just bad at it.)

Love anything that immediately transfers to my overall skiing. It's usually just an awareness, a tactic, or a sequence.
post #15 of 65
Most hated: Any task where an examiner is making notes!!!
post #16 of 65
Why does one do javelin turns? What's the benefit?
post #17 of 65
I am going to repeat somthing ant said. I abosolutely hate, with a passion any instructor whose form of guided discovery is "I have a little secrect, can I embarass you by guessing what it is?" I wanna getem right by the throat. Seems like a favorite with clinicians here in central.

Hate picture frame skiing.

Hate squats up and down while skiing.

Hate poles on top of outstretched arms routine.

Hate instructors who think that zipper line, is the goal in bumps. :
post #18 of 65
And, historians, why do they call them javelin turns and who invented them?
post #19 of 65
Originally posted by weems:
And, historians, why do they call them javelin turns and who invented them?
Not giving the answer but the Skier's Edge book may help!
post #20 of 65
Ummm - confused

I was taught to do javelin turns by lifting outside ski(new inside) & turning the other ski under it(sort of)....
Swap at transition

Help???? Is this what Keetov said(sorry I struggle with uphill downhill stuff which is where when...)
post #21 of 65
nolo (my master Yoda),
I (as a young Jedi knight, learning from the master) have recently been digesting some information on javelin turns. They are named after a new model of ski which Head (I think) had just introduced when one of their sponsored skiers started to do this exercise. The idea behind the turn is to work on hip angulation. Pick up the outside ski and point it across the other ski, and toward, or down, the fall line.
I've read it, but haven't done it yet. Ask me again in 23 days. I may have tried by then.

post #22 of 65
My fav; sking without poles, I always seem to ski better and in a far more dynamic way. (answers on a postcard as to why? please)

least liked; there is no least liked

but curious as to why I ski normal terrain better without the hinderance of pole, only reason I can come up with is that is easier to achieve a better hand and upper body position? Or am I barking up the wrong tree?
post #23 of 65

wear the fox hat
Hart ski meant for Giant slalom skiing
post #24 of 65
Thanks Keetov - always struggled with uphill/downhill.

Left & right is worse - my first instructor was always saying "No the OTHER left" [img]redface.gif[/img]
post #25 of 65
Originally posted by KeeTov:

wear the fox hat
Hart ski meant for Giant slalom skiing
Right about Hart. I'm not so sure about GS. They never had a racing presence.

Two wonderful Swiss guys, Art Furrer and Roger Staub, first popularized them in a Roger Brown movie called "The Magic Skis". They did wonderful tricks on the skis, and I think the javelin turn may have first been seen in that.

A sort of a sequel to that was "Ski the Outer Limits", which to me is the best ski movie ever made. I believe it came out in either 1967 or 68, and it broke all the barriers. I believe that it had a seminal influence on freestyle and, in addition to Furrer and Staub, it starred Susie Chaffee, Tom LeRoi, and Hermann Goellner. The latter two did wonderful, incredible flips (for the time). Furrer and Staub brought a sense of joy and delight to trick skiing that got all of us turned on.

I guess Furrer is running his hotel in Switzerland. Staub, the first Ski School Director of Vail, and 1960 Olympic Gold Medalist in GS, was lost to all of us in a hang-gliding accident.

I think the turn teaches balance and keeps the hips from rotating. I don't teach it because it is one of those examples of the drill being harder than the goal.

But it was fun to do as a form of expression in the 70's
post #26 of 65

Yes, those two guys were graceful on skiis.

Remember tip walking? Impressive during line-up....
post #27 of 65
As a kid, I remember the printed Hart Ski ads in ski publications of the time had a picture of Furrer (Staub?) with his Uphill Ski swung perpendicular across his downhill ski flashing his white and black Hart Javelins (and a big grin!). Voila! The Javelin Turn.

Keetov asked: "I've never figured out when you do the transition from one ski to the other...at the fall line or at the top of the turn?"

Croos the ski over the outside ski as soon as weight is established on the new outside ski - prior to entering the fall line.

Fun Drill!
post #28 of 65
WTFH-"Hip Angulation" is certainly a vestigial position. I would argue it is something that harkens back to the era of soft boots and long, straight Hart Javelins. One might certainly try getting countered and their hips angulated, however, it is something that is counterproductive today on new skis. Trying it would serve to demonstrate the "wrong way" to tip/turn a ski. I hesitate to say wrong because there may be conditions/circumstances where it is warranted.

Pierre- Your post made me realize how very much I hate to see a group of skiers with poles held by the shafts in a horizontal position in outstretched arms. I just want to scream "get a life" or at least "get a drill"!

I'm beginning to hate video. I skied the last couple of days with Bob B. Yesterday he whipped out the camera. I tried to "turn it up a notch" for the camera and about bought the ranch!

I looked at the video and decided I ski like a ninety year old man. It made me feel very old. There just wasn't quite as much zip as I thought.
post #29 of 65
Sorry about getting the brand wrong. I guess I let my HEAD rule my HART.

post #30 of 65
C'mon, Rusty, let's see it!
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