Originally Posted by TheSkiMogul
I normally don't like to weigh in on these threads, but your verbiage leaves me scratching my head. I understand exactly what you're talking about, but your terminology is confusing. Using terms like "manual turning" and "self created rotary" creates confusion. "Self created rotary force" implies that there is such a thing as rotary forces created by someone other than the self. If I'm not creating rotary force, who is? Is there some sort of external rotary force being exerted on my skis? Is there a rotary genie that lives in the mountains and causes me to turn?
Yes, in carving there are rotary forces other than those directly created by you which cause your skis to turn. It's not you doing it, it's purely the design properties of the skis that cause them to turn when you tip them on edge.
If you were on a dead straight ski, no sidecut or camber, and so stiff it had absolutely no capacity to bend, you could tip it up on edge as high as you like and unless you physically did something to twist them into a new compass direction they would just keep going straight.
That's not the case with shape skis. You can tip them up on edge and they turn all on there own. No need for you to suppliment with any self generated twisting force.
Also, you seem to imply that "rotation turning" and "counter rotation turning" are caused by rotary force. Isn't it the rotation or counter rotation in those turns that is creating the turn? I mean, sure you could use rotary while making a rotation turn, but isn't that blending two unrelated movements together?
Sorry, you've lost me here. Rotation and Counter Rotation are 2 distinct types of rotary skills. They can't exist without the use of rotary. Not sure what you're seeing as unrelated.
Here, you seem to set up your concept of "manual turning" as the opposite of carving.
Not sure I've ever actually used the word "opposite", but it's probably a useful way to look at it. Manually turning the skis is done by leg steering, rotation, counter rotation, anticipation, pivoting,,, stuff like that where we use our muscles to create and impose a rotary force on the skis which twists them into a new compass direction. In carving no such manually created twisting force is imposed on the skis. They turn all on their own.
And you define carving in a very disturbing manor. You call it tipping the skis up on edge and riding them around.
This shouldn't really disturb you,,, it's exactly what carving is.
And I'll agree that doing so will produce a carved turn of a sort.
Of a sort? There is no other sort. Don't confuse this with parking and riding on a low edge angle. Any turn radius within the design parameters of the skis can be produced by simply tipping and riding the sidecut. You just tip to the angle that produces the turn shape you want.
But doesn't the act of tipping the ski on edge happen manually?
Yes, it absolutely does. But that tipping of the ski on edge does not impose a twisting force on the ski that in-of itself causes the ski to twist into a new compass direction.
Think of it this way: When you drive a car turning the steering wheel does not actually turn the car, it simple directs the car to turn itself. Same thing when carving a ski. Tipping the ski up on edge directs the ski to turn itself.
Steering a ski is different. In steering you're actually turning the ski yourself. In the car analogy it would be like 5 burly guys picking up the back of the car and tossing it to the side. They actually turned the car, it did not turn itself.
Now I don't necessarily love the PSIA's take on everything. But I've read through their literature and talked with many instructors and I've never heard them extol riding on the edges of a ski as the way to carve. In fact, the PSIA tends to talk about a blend of skis which always includes some form of rotary movements.
I can only hope you misinterpreted what they were telling you, because riding on a clean edge is precisely what carving is, Any blending of steering into an arcing ski degrades the quality of the carve.
My suspicion is that the blending with rotary movements they were talking about had to do with passive rotary. Passive refers to the rotational movements we make that does not acutally impose a twisting force on the skis, such as the pelvic rotation that allows us to manage counter. Counter is a crucial element of upper level carving. It allows us to effectively manage our lateral balance, especially as edge angles grow.