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wedge to wedge christy?

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 
What is the best way to move from making a wedge to a wedge christy?
post #2 of 18
THIS should be interesting! Welcome to EpicSki dumbassphillipsink (and where did you come up with that name--thank god for copy/paste!)

Sorry--no time at the moment to get into this issue. But I'm curious what others have to say about this very important question....

Best regards,
Bob Barnes
post #3 of 18
Thread Starter 
Thanks Bob for your reply. I too, am very interesting in seeing what answers are given to this question.
post #4 of 18
I'll try, although others can probably do a better job.
Start by flattening your downhill ski. Then let your center of mass move downhill, as if you were "falling" into the turn. Next, steer your feet until the skis are parallel.
post #5 of 18
So, DAPS, is your goal to go from a gliding wedge turn to a gliding wedge turn that ends in a christie (what we used to call a snowplow christie)? Or are you thinking more in terms of introducing the wedge christie concept to someone who's making a reliable linked gliding wedge turn?

I ask because for me, the important part of the wedge christie concept is the turn entry, while the important part of a gliding wedge turn that ends in a christie is the finish.
post #6 of 18
Troll alert. Don't be easy prey.
post #7 of 18
AC, you beat me to the punch.

this one gets a face dodge. I go right past him to the goalie. zipped over goalie's offside shoulder, the ball rips through the net.

Mr sink is a terrible defenseman. I just completed that sequence with a new stick, not even broken in. it can barely cradle a ball and is nearly impossible to control a ball while moving.

methinks sink tries to fish with a marshmallow amidst a frenzied caddis hatch.
post #8 of 18
D- Boy every reply steered clear of an answer! I will take the bait!

The best way to move from a wedge to a wedge christy is to ski a little faster on a little steeper terrain.

Ok that might not be enought in every case but if we have poeple skiing in a wedge from a dynamic balanced stance and skiing offensively and not defensively it really should be all it takes.

From a narrow wedge position we have really worked with the person on being able to flatten and edge the skis and steer with the legs all we have left is to allow there confidence to increases. As this increases they can ski a little faster and they will start to allow there hip to slide to the inside and balance against the outside ski, as they are balancing against the outside ski and continueing to steer both from the legs the inside ski will steer to the christy finish as the hip moves over the top of it.

A few drills I have found usefull.

1. Everyone teaches new skiers to sidestep (giving them the ability to edge the ski) but we must also teach them to sideslip. (so they have the ability to disengage the edges) I have found not only at this level but every level are biggest hurrdle is the ability to let go of the edges and release into the new turn.

2. Leg steering: Draw a line in the snow on almost flat terrain. Then have them from a small wedge steer the TIPS back and forth just across the line. (not full turns) Have people lie on there back and turn there legs you can help them turn the leg in the hip socket this way with no resistance and it keeps the hip from twisting. Dig a hole for your foot and put it in the hole and try to twist against the side of the hole to feel the resistance all the way up the leg. There are a million more!

3. Don't change weight or pressure from foot to foot (LET IT HAPPEN) Keep them centered in the middle of the wedge. Many skiers will try to lean up hill, this creates the high edge on the outside ski making it tough to go the other way with this ski working as a brake!

4. From a small wedge make some turns while shuffling the feet the whole time. (small shuffle from the ankle)

A wedge christy is nothing I teach it is a place people pass through on there way to paralle skiing. Depending on the equipment they have and the terrain you have available you need to make adjustments to each individual.

So I go back to my original reply the easiest way to get someone from wedge to wedge christy is get them to balance and stand in the middle of the ski from the start with the ability to engage and DISengage the edges while steering from the legs and learn to move away from the skis not to them and you will have a skier that develops wedge to christy to paralle in no time. Good luck!!!
post #9 of 18
The best answer: Take a lesson!
We can give you loads of advice, but without seeing you ski, and seeing the terrain you're own, all this will be is ideas.

Oh, and when the lesson is finished, tip the instructor if they've done a good job!

post #10 of 18
Todo is right on the money!! People start parallel before they realize it is happening.
We don't decide one day to teach parallel to a student - we teach movements that lead to parallel. The parallel turn happens from those same movements as the dynamics intensify. Good dynamic parallel skiing starts with good wedge turns.
post #11 of 18
S-P-O-N-T-A-N-E-O-U-S....blend skills, don't teach maneuvres, understand excercises are not skiing, movements are positive and not negative....turn around and see the "milestones" behind you!!!!
What Todo and Blizzard said.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ January 22, 2002 08:33 AM: Message edited 1 time, by Robin ]</font>
post #12 of 18

Sidestep (on both uphill edges! with small steps)

then use that sidestep stance and practice some twintrack traverses (Each to a stop)

then (statically) from the sidestep/traverse stance release edges and sideslip(a couple inches of slide is all you need)

Then traverse again, only just before you stop, make the release move, the skier(s) will forward sideslip. Make a series of these in both directions.(stop only when switching to traverse iun the opposite direction, otherwise make sure the release is used to avoid stopping.

Once these are easy. traverse, release and open to a gliding wedge. This will get skiers in tothe fall line in a steerable wedge, the rest is natural, IF the above skill development path has been successful at each step.

Voila! Wedge christy. It works with total beginners on their first day too. If you teach to balance on corresponding edges as well as opposing edges right from the start a lot of people simply start making wedge christies without any extra emphasis.
post #13 of 18
1)Tip the old outside/soon to become inside ski.

2) Steer the old outside/soon to become inside ski down the hill

3) Extend/pressure old inside/soon to be outside ski when appropriate (read to mean near the gravity line)

4) Continue to gently tip the inside ski and wait for skis to match.

post #14 of 18


post #15 of 18

Sidestep (on both uphill edges! with small steps)

then use that sidestep stance and practice some twintrack traverses (Each to a stop)<<

If you are teaching these moves, why would you want to teach them a wedge Christy at this point??????? : Of coarse, if you are just answering the question, excuse me. But it seems to me that what you are teaching here is the beginning of a direct parallel progression.-----------Wigs
post #16 of 18
New person here, had to jump in on this one.
Dumba**, if you ski 287 day's a year and ask this...give it up dude!,go bowling.
post #17 of 18
All right, I'll bite. It's a good question, and an important one for understanding ski technique, troll or not.

[EDIT: For those who are already lost, a couple simple definitions: A "Wedge Turn" is a turn made with the skis converging--tips closer than tails--and with both skis gliding on their inside edges all the way through the turn. A "Christie" (or "Christy") is a turn or any part of a turn with the skis on "corresponding edges"--both right edges or both left edges. Usually, in a "christie," skis also tend to be roughly parallel. So a "wedge christie" is a turn that starts with a wedge, and finishes with a more parallel "christie phase."]

As others have very well said, the progression from wedge turn to wedge christie to parallel turn is the natural outcome of developing skill, increasing confidence, and perhaps going a little faster, with the EXACT SAME fundamental movements. Or at least, it WOULD be if the movements were taught correctly from the beginning (they often aren't).

The important movement of any ski turn is, of course, that the skis TURN--like the front wheels of a car. Whether this happens due to skis carving or the skier actively steering them, or a combination, is not important. It must happen either way, and if it doesn't, the skier won't turn!

For a turn to actually cause the skier to go in a new direction--as opposed to just one that slows him down--the front ends of the skis must turn IN to the turn, rather than the tails twisting out (into a skid). For this to happen, the inside tip (right tip of a right turn) must start turning first--otherwise it is in the way of the outside ski.

So a very simple thought for initiating a good turn, whether in a wedge or parallel stance, is "right tip right to go right, left tip left to go left." And everything else will follow from here. With low skills and low speeds, most beginning skiers will show a bit of a wedge as they turn both tips down the hill to initiate a turn, even if they start from a parallel stance in a traverse. Why? The downhill ski is simply harder to turn at first, because it is difficult to completely flatten it on the snow, and because it typically supports a little more weight. (Flattening it completely to initiate a parallel turn becomes much easier if you have enough speed and confidence to tip your whole body downhill/into the new turn--not the case at very low "beginner" speeds.)

So "right tip right to go right" typically causes a gentle wedge, even as BOTH tips are guided down the hill. Then speed picks up as the skier glides downhill. The skier tilts into the turn for balance, helping flatten that inside ski, and weight moves progressively toward the outside ski, lightening the inside ski. At some point it becomes easier to turn the INSIDE ski, so the same "right tip right" effort brings the skis parallel as the skier continues to steer both skis through the turn. Voila--a wedge christie!

Soon, with a little more speed, and a little more skill and confidence, the skier will be able to completely release the downhill ski at the start of the turn. The wedge christie becomes a parallel turn. But the movements and the skier's intent and efforts all along remain exactly the same. We do not teach wedge turns, then wedge christies, then parallel--we teach fundamental movements and help skiers develop skills. The wedge--wedge christie--parallel progression simply identifies typical "milestones" that skiers pass by/through as they become more proficient.

I agree with Wigs that the progressions and exercises that lead to these movement patterns are the same in both "wedge" and (good) "direct parallel" progressions. As I have often said, the wedge/parallelness of the skis is irrelevant to these movements!

But a "wedge progression" that teaches skiers to push out on the outside ski, or to make what I call "negative movements" of the body to the outside of the turn does NOT develop these movements. It could properly be termed a "dead-end progression."

Likewise, a "direct-parallel" progression that teaches negative movements is also a dead-end progression. The little spontaneous wedge at the beginning of the wedge christie could be avoided by shifting the weight completely to the uphill ski first, but this shift involves a movement of the body uphill in order to balance on that uphill ski--a negative movement, a dead end.

Here's a graphic from my book that illustrates very simply the correct movements for a wedge christie ("matching") and the incorrect, "tails out" (negative) movements of "closing."

Of course, the "tails out" movements, while inappropriate for an offensive TURN, are quite appropriate for defensive intent or braking. They are the movements of the classic "Stem Christie." If you want to "go that way," you need the TURNING movements. If you just want to "stop going this way," the defensive movements are just right!

Those who find fault, categorically, with the wedge in a beginner's progression, or who assume that any "direct parallel" progression is "good," simply don't understand these important concepts.

Best regards,
Bob Barnes

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ January 23, 2002 09:47 AM: Message edited 1 time, by Bob Barnes/Colorado ]</font>
post #18 of 18
Mr dubmass, who needs a wedge anyway. Put your feet together, then duck tape them tightly. You will not only learn parallel quickly, but your balance will improve. If you are afraid of that, start on a beginner hill, head straight down the hill and, thats actually all you need to do. Turns are over rated.
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