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Student moves their feet, how do you handle this?

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 
What do you do with the level I student that is constantly shuffling their feet? They are not picking up on how to use the wedge to stop b/c their feet are always stepping/shuffling.
post #2 of 22
Tie their legs together! [img]tongue.gif[/img] ------Wigs
post #3 of 22
Thread Starter 
Any real solutions?
post #4 of 22
Teach them to snowboard.... :

Seriously, address the problem directly with the student. Ask them "Why are you shuffling your feet?" Is it a balance thing? It is an equipment thing? Is it a new sensation thing ? Is it a fear thing? The causes and solutions could be many things.

If it's an option, take them to easier terrain or somewhere with a good runout and just work on stright runs until they gain a little better fine motor control of their legs. Did you do wedge change ups ? They're great for stuff like that.

Hope this helps,
Lonnie
post #5 of 22
What makes you think that shuffling of the feet is bad? Actually, it's a pretty useful drill to get them to feel the snow.

Also, why are you teaching a braking wedge? You mentioned using the wedge to slow down. Teach them to make a turn and let the turn slow them down.

Now, excessive shuffling/picking up might be a problem. My guess is that it's a tension thing. One thing I do with Level 1 to get them to relax is to toss a glove up in the air and catch it while making their turns. It takes the brain off the skiing and puts it on the tossing. It relaxes the body.

Once they can toss a glove in the air try tossing one to them while they ski. If you position yourself correctly you can get their body positioned correctly over the skis and facing downhill.

Bob
post #6 of 22
Interesting. Later in their learning we teach them to shuffle to aid in steering and pressure.

What age, gender, other activities, etc? see if there is something else in their life that is causing them to think they need to shuffle. Check their bases for wax. If they can't slide/glide then they may "feel" like they need to shuffle.

Wedge change-up's are good, Straight runs into a small hill also are good.
post #7 of 22
Maybe it's an ethnic thing.
post #8 of 22
Thread Starter 
I'm teaching a braking wedge because that's what my bosses want us to teach. Straight runs to gliding wedge to braking wedge, then turning. :

I've had one child using excessive foot movement, but that was due to a poor wax job. A puck of Zardoz in my pocket will cure this next time.

I also had one adult the just insisted in trying to walk all the time. While this is a good excercise (and one I use often) for more advanced beginners, it's bad when a never ever is constantly stepping, stepping on their own skis, popping bindings, etc. I was just wondering if anyone had any good ideas for the next time I come across this student. I'll try the glove tossing.
post #9 of 22
Quote:
Originally posted by Taylormatt:
I also had one adult the just insisted in trying to walk all the time. While this is a good excercise (and one I use often) for more advanced beginners, it's bad when a never ever is constantly stepping, stepping on their own skis, popping bindings, etc. I was just wondering if anyone had any good ideas for the next time I come across this student. I'll try the glove tossing.
How about the beginners version of "1000 steps". If they want to (ie you can't get them to stop doing it) and feel comfortable moving their feet that way, go with it. Have them pick their skis up and turn them across the hill using a straight run ? At least you would be getting them to impart some rotary movements that could later be used when you try to get them to wedge turn. They might even learn how to pick their skis up and not cross them over. Have them move the inside ski first and take small steps across the hill until they stop (or they could turn back the other way as their skill increases.) Just make sure you let them know that it's not the way we "normally" ski. Lifting their feet from the wedge position can be bad, for the reasons you stated above.

Just an idea....
post #10 of 22
I'm curious, did you ask the student why the stepping and shuffling? Usually it is as you said, no wax or warm skis from the rental shop on cold snow = frozen lumps on bases.

One kid I had who stepped said he wanted to go faster so I just let him run straight for some speed until he stopped stepping then I asked him to wedge.

If I were you, I'd convienently forget to teach the braking wedge. From your graemlin, I'm sure you know why.
post #11 of 22
What Springhill Crazie said.

When the wax job is short of ok and snow clumps on the bases, the students invariably shuffle.
post #12 of 22
Taylormatt teaches a braking wedge because of the terrain.
Actually a gliding wedge is what is used until a braking wedge becomes necessary. An adaptation to the terrain..........
post #13 of 22
Better watch what you say, a supervisisor could be reading. [img]tongue.gif[/img] Larry C, forgive the barb but I know 7S has good beginner terrain so I was confused as to why the braking wedge was being taught. At Laurel (when we're open, if ever again) we didn't teach a braking wedge and our terrain is really limited. Our rope tow learning area ends were a good intermediate pitch begins, after a short flat run out.

A braking wedge is neccesary for the beginner on difficult terrain but why take them there if they're not ready?
post #14 of 22
Thread Starter 
Rob, As busy as 7S is, I feel we need to teach the braking wedge (IMHO) just to prepare them for the mayhem that can be Fawn Lane and Phillips Run (the first 2 beginner trails a newbie skis). Narrow trails that are overcrowded....a beginner simply can not turn until stopped there. At least not without becoming part of a pile up. Two criteria for advancing to a level II and riding the chair is can they turn and stop?
post #15 of 22
Ok I have waited long enough for disski to jump on this and she blew it. If the foot shuffling is due to the student seeming like they are standing on marbles or just doesen't understand, have them put the hands in front of them and cup the fingers, to grip one another and pull the hands apart in tension.

This seems to shut all this stuff down and let the person use their feet for long enough to get the idea. Thanks disski. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

[ January 16, 2004, 04:08 AM: Message edited by: Pierre ]
post #16 of 22
Springhill Crazy,,c`mon , I think taylormatt has answered you....and as a clinician we teach the system [img]graemlins/evilgrin.gif[/img] plus what ever gets us thru the night. We use the totality of our experience whether it`s at the Tuckerman Ravine or in the deepest pow. The system is not set up for the extremes, however our experience lets us function..... [img]tongue.gif[/img]
post #17 of 22
Thread Starter 
Good idea Pierre/Disski! I'll use that one next time. Thanks.
post #18 of 22
Quote:
Originally posted by Taylormatt:
I'm teaching a braking wedge because that's what my bosses want us to teach. Straight runs to gliding wedge to braking wedge, then turning. :
Could you change the sequence to;

1 Straight Run
2 Gliding Wedge
3 Turning on whatever platform evolves ie, gliding wedge, 1000 steps/skating for hockey players or onlines skaters.
4 Braking Wedge for liftlines!

I have a new customer. I was given her after she complained about her first lesson. She was put in a wedge and left in a wedge for an hour.

She is a nationally ranked figure skater.

No one bothered to ask her about hobbies prior to the first lesson.

I put her on a pair of skis that were the right length and she skated circles around me. In two hours she made great open parallel turns.
post #19 of 22
Quote:
Originally posted by Taylormatt:
Good idea Pierre/Disski! I'll use that one next time. Thanks.
Stems from an off snow exercise to show how reflexes/balance work.... is in the pole plant stuff & one other thread I think.....

Pierre misunderstood what I said & tried it on new skiers - worked on the above type!
post #20 of 22
hey guys...

I think you might be overanalyzing this one a scoche. I have taught lots of beginners and I have seen the feet shuffling thing numerous times.

I just think that lots of people don't "get" that they can pick their feet up off of the snow and move around. I do a lot of "walking" with beginners right off the bat to break this habit.

As for the people (kids especially) who pick up their feet and "skate" all the time - ask them if they play hockey... it's generally the case.



kiersten
post #21 of 22
Thread Starter 
Rusty,

I never dwell on the wedge. The second the student can competently come to some sort of a stop, we move on to turns. I just need to know they can stop abruptly if need be. While it may not be pretty in the beginners area, they always improve tenfold on the trail when having to do it under the pressure/fear of wrecking into someone or when avoiding another out of control skiier. Fear is actually a great motivator [img]smile.gif[/img] Most of my skating students also find open parallel turns very quickly.
post #22 of 22
I known from reading the PMTS Direct Parallel Instructor Manual that shuffling is a very positive movement. Why not try to add some tilting to the shuffling. You may find that the student will begin turning toward the tilting direction. I have tried the progression and watched others learn with this method. It is very effective. You don’t need to be on the slope. You can use to flat or slight slope near the bottom of the hill. You may have to teach or introduce a wedge if you take the skier up the lift, depending on your terrain, but so what if they shuffle in the wedge. The skier won’t need the wedge for very long if they learn Direct Parallel.
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