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09-10 Volkl Attiva "Bio-Logic" design

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 
Volkl has dramatically redesigned their womans skis for 09-10 with "Bio-logic" in mind. Bio-Logic can be read about it here... http://www.volkl.com/ski/attiva/bio-logic.php . While the names have stayed the same in the models from 08-09 to 09-10, Luna, Sol, Tierra ect, the skis have changed dramatically bordering on revolutionary (if what they say IS true). 

Overview (and over simplification) of the design that were significantly redesigned, tips are (roughly) 10mm wider, tails are 10mm narrower and bindings have gone to 0* ramp angle compared to the outgoing model of the same name. While these numbers do not sound significant, they are a dramatic departure from the norm. 

Volkl feels that these will be much safer and easier for women to ski. How do others feel about this departure for women's skis? If it right? Wrong? Marketing? 
post #2 of 17
 This is quite intriguing.  Things that come to mind first and foremost....
First: Balance, They raise the toe slightly to create a balance and avoid stress on the quads and hammstring
Isn't this a move in the opposite direction of where women's ski balance and boot work has been going for years? For someone who never benefited from heel lifts, this is very interesting.

Second: Geometry, they seem to change the tip and tail configuration to initiate turns quicker and release quicker, without much effort.
I know this is one of the things involved with the design of some of Nordica's Expert women's skis. Fun design, not sure how it fits in the entire collection.

Third: Flex, they change the flex to work better with the change in binding and geometry changes.
Hmmmmm, softer, or no?
post #3 of 17
 0* delta on the binding a huge step in the right direction for any ski/binding combination IMO. From what I gather, the older, forward mount position is a reaction to womens skis being knock offs of mens skis. What they say makes sense and our shops women testers all liked the new crop of Volkls. Heel lifts are one of those things that should not be universally added to "all women". Certain "womens gurus" think this way and it is very wrong IMO.
post #4 of 17
Interesting that they apparently chose not to use this on the wider skis. At least the Aura and Kiku are not listed among the "bio-logic" series.

Having always skied on unisex skis. I find it difficult to think we are built that differently that we need completely different designs. Maybe biologic technology will move into mens skis and they'll call it machology.
post #5 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mom View Post

Interesting that they apparently chose not to use this on the wider skis. At least the Aura and Kiku are not listed among the "bio-logic" series.

Having always skied on unisex skis. I find it difficult to think we are built that differently that we need completely different designs. Maybe biologic technology will move into mens skis and they'll call it machology.
The Kiku and Aura are flat skis, the Bio are their system ones. Makes me think...could we see a woman specific Marker coming soon since Volkl is in bed with them?
post #6 of 17
 Phil, to that point, I was actually wondering if marker is part of the major equation as it is.
I have had Dukes on two pair of skis, one of which is the Aura.  I liked the zero delta on the Aura, and I understand that the Duke is/has been mounted on quite a few Auras and Kikus.  I wonder if someone said, "Hmmmm, Women like a ski binding system that isn't heel lifted"



^^^^of course I'm over simplifying. 
post #7 of 17
I believe Dynastar and Lange have been involved in the "elevated heel" for use by women for 4 or 5 years(or more.) They seemed to have found favorable results from many of the women that have used their equipment. It seems they have been more beneficial for newer skiers.
K2 has used the "forward-waisted" philosophy with their T-Nine women's series with seemingly positive results. Their T-Nine series has been very successful for many years.
Nordica and pre-2010 Volkl women's skis have received many rave reviews from all the product testing results in recent years.
You always have to wonder how much is actually "bio-mechanical" and how much is marketing. If it is a truly "bio-mechanical advantage" then shouldn't it be included in their flat skis.
Usually, it takes several years for "advanced" ideas to be accepted or rejected as viable in the market. We certainly have seen plenty of "revolutionary" concepts come and go in the ski industry with negative results being, far and away, the most predominant.
It seems to me (on a purely anecdotal basis,) that better women skiers that learned to ski on "unisex" equipment do not seem as drawn to the performance of some of the women's skis/boots, as much as, some of the "unisex" skis in sizes appropriate to their weight and ability.
The Marker 0* could certainly be a driving factor but why not with K2. Different philosophies perhaps, as in Dynastar/Lange vs. Rossignol.
From my years of selling and fitting, skis and boots, as well as, studying the two concepts, I personally lean more towards elevated heels. But,as they say, "that, and $3.50, will get you a glorified cup of coffee."
post #8 of 17
 Have any of you  shop guys compared the Volkl bio logic skis side by side with other brand skis of the same class, or even last years version of the same Volkl ski?

Volklgirl and I compared a Tierra with a Nordica Mint(two closest at this particular shop).
The ramp angle was the most obvious to the naked eye, without setting both skis up for the same BSL.

This is going to be very interesting. 
post #9 of 17
 
post #10 of 17
TC's got her finger on the trigger.......
post #11 of 17
 Moi?
Nah!  I just like to drool over new stuff. 
post #12 of 17
But wouldn't you rather SKI it? 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trekchick View Post

 Moi?
Nah!  I just like to drool over new stuff. 
post #13 of 17
 With demo days at Loveland, the first SkiDiva reviews of this system are up.
http://www.theskidiva.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8287

Quote:
The Volkl fuego with the new biologic technology got mixed reviews from the bunch. I found it fun to ski as long as you kept it pointed straight down the fall line. If you tried to make more sweeping turns the tails would not hold. It also seemed to ski better if you were sitting in the back seat.
post #14 of 17
The one thing I learned from the Kneebinding thread was that there is an injury mode where when the skier sits down, the heal edges don't release and the inside ski pops the ACL.

It seems to me that both of the changes here would reduce the chances of getting such an injury. Am I wrong? Could it be an un-advertised design motivation?
post #15 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by retroEric View Post

The one thing I learned from the Kneebinding thread was that there is an injury mode where when the skier sits down, the heal edges don't release and the inside ski pops the ACL.

It seems to me that both of the changes here would reduce the chances of getting such an injury. Am I wrong? Could it be an un-advertised design motivation?


 This is absolutely part of the design of this system, to help protect womans knees since they are more prone to knee injuries. 
post #16 of 17
Interesting, but what's up with that huge inside tip lead on their simulated skier?

Nice to see Brenda B ski in that video though, as she moves very nicely!
post #17 of 17
IMO the essence of this is going to a zero delta on the binding and by absolute coincidence my wife and I stumbled on this very early last year.  It all started with me not understanding why my wife tired quickly on any given day.  She is very, very fit (wish I was!)and has been known to watch an entire men's tennis match while on the stair master.  She had been professionally fitted and had a custom footbed but I noticed her fore aft stance looked wrong in some pictures so I got out the plumb bob to see what was up. In her boots on a level floor she was dead on standing in a normal skiing position (plumb bob hanging just in front of her first buckle on her Tecnica attiva flames).  On a hunch I then had her step into her then daily drivers (K2 phat luvs with Marker 12 Free bindings) and I hung the plumb bob again and was shocked as it now hung way out in front of her boot.  The combination of the binding heel being elevated about 15 mm(most are if nothing more than to accomodate the brake), plus a women's boot with a fair amount of built in ramp plus a relatively short boot sole length (264 mm) pushed her knees so far forward that to maintain fore aft balance her quads were "fired" all day.  When we mentioned it to our fitter he brought out the wily old former world cup tech.  After listening for what seemed like about 10 seconds he just nodded and took out what K2 calls the stomp pad from below the heel and sent us on our way.  The result was striking in both her skiing and her stamina.  She was game all day long and was the last one in.  When we replaced the K2's we went with Marker Griffons (the Griffons and Jesters have no delta) and we've never looked back.  Towards the end of the season we were told Volkl had eliminated all binding delta in womens' skis for 2010.
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