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Cross Under & Serpentine what is the difference? - Page 3

post #61 of 70
 Every generation of skis forces us to adapt our technique to exploit the new ski's inherent qualities. This is why I say comparing two maneuvers separated by almost fifty years needs to include a discussion of how the equipment has changed. Remember when parabolic skis came out and we all took our first few runs on those skis? To me, it was like power steering had been added to the skis. If I tried to turn them like their older cousins they whipped around very quickly. Not to mention how extremely squirrelly these skis were when almost flat to the snow. This led everyone to suggest keeping them on a higher edge and the whole carvaholic craze was born. Then when the short slaloms came out that whippy quality got even more pronounced. So did the tendency to go over the handlebars since there simply wasn't as much ski to lever against. It took more than a few adjustments to our technique to ski these skis well.
So much has changed over the years. IMO all of these changes add up to wholesale differences between techniques from either era. Warren Miller did a piece with new school skiers on old equipment and guess what, their technique immediately change and resembled the technique from that era. Why? Because that's what works best for that equipment. Reverse that and put Killy and his contemporaries on modern equipment. I suspect their technique would change as well.

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post #62 of 70
The Serpent as described by Joubert is a crossunder turn. I have written a paper entitled "How to Ski Crossunder" It was written for experienced skiers to teach themselves. It can be downloaded from www.skicrossunder.com
post #63 of 70

Hi jbharstad, did not have time to read your entire document but I have one question. If a up-unweighted turn is a cross-over then is a down-unwieighting turn a cross-under?

post #64 of 70
I only use the term "downunweighting" once in the paper and that's because others have used it in reference to the crossunder movement. It is confusing to many and best not used at all. How about this as a definition of downunweighting---- "if it's not upunweighting it must be downunweighting! Anyway there is another downunweighting,namely , a sudden flexing. It's mentioned in middle of the third paragraph of the quote on page 5. And there is the answer to you question. In my paper the reason for being are the teaching progressions. The rest of the text is for the skier to decide if he is actually skiig crossunder. I state this in the paper more than once.
post #65 of 70
I think that is what they are talking about. The turn that ruined many knees forever.......
post #66 of 70
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplyfast View Post

I think that is what they are talking about. The turn that ruined many knees forever.......
 

I feel your pain!  Lost mine years ago railing turns on a blue at Copper.
post #67 of 70
In this video at 16 seconds, is this the technique?

post #68 of 70
Thread Starter 
Tog, that is close, but still not serpentine.  The guys I skied with then spent a lot of time trying to emulate that move though; don't know an official name for it but we called it 'knee boogie'.  Serpentine had even less upper body motion involved. 

Saw this on a different thread, and it looks like the real deal to me.  Check out at around 3:10 on the little face Killy is skiing.  Everything is happening bellow the waist, a little tougher to see with the snow, and it is just a couple of turns at a time of Serpentine (that is part of Killy's' skiing, he mixed everything together so fluidly).  If you don't see the turns I am referring to fine, you'll see great skiing.

Would that be considered 'Cross Under' in todays vernacular? 
I can not get this video inserted, will keep working on it! 

When I grow up, I want to ski like this!
Edited by Stranger - 12/4/09 at 10:57am
post #69 of 70
Thread Starter 
 
post #70 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stranger View Post

Tog, that is close, but still not serpentine.  The guys I skied with then spent a lot of time trying to emulate that move though; don't know an official name for it but we called it 'knee boogie'.  Serpentine had even less upper body motion involved. 

Saw this on a different thread, and it looks like the real deal to me.  Check out at around 3:10 on the little face Killy is skiing.  Everything is happening bellow the waist, a little tougher to see with the snow, and it is just a couple of turns at a time of Serpentine (that is part of Killy's' skiing, he mixed everything together so fluidly).  If you don't see the turns I am referring to fine, you'll see great skiing.

Would that be considered 'Cross Under' in todays vernacular? 

When I grow up, I want to ski like this!
Yes beautiful skiing!
I've loved that video for years and have brought the tape several times to esa but we never have a vcr to play it. It's nice it's on youtube now. I'd recommend buying it and there's dvd versions available. Just search Sybervision skiing On ebay also.
Here's their site: http://www.sybervision.com/Skiing/index.htm
There's only 7 minutes of Killy, but the other skiing is really good example of straight ski technique not really being much different than today.

I guess that yes that would be considered cross under by todays standards though it rarely looks like that. Maybe it's because there's so much active foot/leg steering and such a stable upper body. Also shape skis just react differently and one would usually be more forward. I see the push you're talking about though.
Edited by Tog - 12/4/09 at 9:24pm
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