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how to ski.

post #1 of 27
Thread Starter 
If someone asked you to tell them how to ski in a paragraph or a page what would you say? I don't mean how to stand up and snow plow down the hill, I mean how to ski like a pro. not directions on how to get that good, but the actuall technique of being the perfect skier.

BoB
post #2 of 27
Take lessons and practice daily.

[ November 30, 2003, 03:53 PM: Message edited by: yuki ]
post #3 of 27
Bob,

You're serious, right?

I doubt that any sport can be condensed into a paragraph that would have any real utility. Sorry about that, because it would be really keen to be able to fully grok a sport in one paragraph on the Internet.

[ November 30, 2003, 04:47 PM: Message edited by: nolo ]
post #4 of 27
Balance is everything.
Regardless all the talk about "two footed carving," you still need to balance primarily on your outside ski.
Continually move to engage the tip of the ski.
Everything else is a detail.

Regards, John

[ November 30, 2003, 04:54 PM: Message edited by: John Dowling ]
post #5 of 27
Quote:
Originally posted by John Dowling:
Balance is everything.
Regardless all the talk about "two footed carving," you still need to balance primarily on your outside ski.
Continually move to engage the tip of the ski.
Everything else is a detail.

Regards, John
Balance is something....not everything.

Telling someone to balance "primarily on their outside ski" is a recipe for terminal intermediacy.

Moving to engage the tip of the ski disengages the remainder of the tool.

The devil is in the details.
post #6 of 27
Why don't we just ask "Stein, could you please tell us everything needed to be an expert skier, that would cover every human being of all ability levels, and encompass everything you have ever learned about skiing. And you have 2 minutes. Stein, are you there, Stein, Stein."

Kill this one now.
post #7 of 27
Thread Starter 
I kinda meant : put your head in this position, your knees in this position, arms, shoulders, ect, then move them in this direction to enter turn and so on. yes I know that it would be naerly impossible, that is why I asked

BoB
post #8 of 27
Quote:
Originally posted by funkybob:
I kinda meant : put your head in this position, your knees in this position, arms, shoulders, ect, then move them in this direction to enter turn and so on. yes I know that it would be naerly impossible, that is why I asked

BoB
Bob, I do a lot of teaching... but this makes me think of teaching sailing (which I used to do). People would ask me to tell them exactly how to do a particular manuever. They'd get mad at me when I'd explain, "I can't.".

Weather, conditions, terrain, the equipment you use... it's all DYNAMIC, not static. Therefore it's IMPOSSIBLE to ever tell someone "this is the exact way to do this"... As you read the threads that instructors participate in - please note that we discuss ideas and techniques. You're an expert skier when you have mastered many many techniques *AND* you know when and how to apply them to your situation.

kiersten
post #9 of 27
Quote:
Originally posted by funkybob:
then move them in this direction to enter turn and so on.
BoB[/QB]
you just answered it!
post #10 of 27
Miyamoto Musashi wrote the definitive book of strategy for the sword, The Book of Five Rings. In order to understand it you must come to terms with many of the "truths" so that you can comprehend his teachings. Pretty heavy stuff? I read the damned thing three times till I noticed that each chapter ended with ...

"Practice this diligently .... Practice this daily."

The basic truth is there are few "secrets". Will you friend be able to read a paragraph and comprehend?

"Flow down the hill like running water Grasshopper and er .... keep the pointy ends in front of you!"

[img]smile.gif[/img]

[ November 30, 2003, 07:32 PM: Message edited by: yuki ]
post #11 of 27
Quote:
Originally posted by Rusty Guy:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by funkybob:
then move them in this direction to enter turn and so on.
BoB
you just answered it![/QB]</font>[/quote]And would "this direction" be to forward?

The ironic thing is that the first intelligent post I've seen from you in weeks actually contradicts yourself.

Best regards, John
post #12 of 27
Quote:
Originally posted by Rusty Guy:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by John Dowling:
Balance is everything.
Regardless all the talk about "two footed carving," you still need to balance primarily on your outside ski.
Continually move to engage the tip of the ski.
Everything else is a detail.

Regards, John
Balance is something....not everything.

Telling someone to balance "primarily on their outside ski" is a recipe for terminal intermediacy.

Moving to engage the tip of the ski disengages the remainder of the tool.

The devil is in the details.
</font>[/quote]You're right John I'm a true moron. I know nothing about skiing. I'm merely a middle aged fool who has spent the past few years teaching skiing full time in Colorado. PSIA made a horrible error when I was awarded a level III certification in the Rocky Mountain division.

Could the possibility exist that you merely don't care for me disagreeing with your assesment?

Please explain the contradiction.

[ November 30, 2003, 07:32 PM: Message edited by: Rusty Guy ]
post #13 of 27
Thread Starter 
ok fine, I did post this just to see if it could be done, because I tried and couldn't do it. but anyway I'll narrow it down to HOW DO YOU LAY OUT A GOOD CARVE ON COURDEROY.

John and Rusty, please don't kill eachother, Its not time to have the first epicmurder, I don't think AC will like it.

Flow down the hill like running water Grasshopper and er .... keep the pointy ends in front of you :
post #14 of 27
Quote:
Originally posted by funkybob:
John and Rusty, please don't kill eachother, Its not time to have the first epicmurder, I don't think AC will like it.
Eugh - there's dried blood on this web page, how do I get it off?

Quote:
Originally posted by funkybob:
Flow down the hill like running water Grasshopper and er .... keep the pointy ends in front of you.
My problem with this is: What if you have twin tips?

And finally, to answer the question asked:
Quote:
Originally posted by funkybob:
HOW DO YOU LAY OUT A GOOD CARVE ON COURDEROY.
Balance, control, timing.

If you have those three then you will be able to lay anything on corduroy.
post #15 of 27
Quote:
Originally posted by funkybob:
HOW DO YOU LAY OUT A GOOD CARVE ON COURDEROY.
I guess I'm tempted to say there are no mail order turns and suggest you see a local level III cert. You asked the question and it deserves an answer.

Railroad track turns are a drill and the genesis of any carved turn. The movement is almost imperceptable and begins in the foot and the foot alone. If you can readily see the movement it may be too gross a movement. If you are going left simply roll the left foot towards the little toe. Any weight shift at this point will destroy the dynamic of the turn. This is where folks make the mistake of shifting weight to the outside ski, thus unweighting the inside ski.

Practice RR track turns on relatively flat terrain and they may well lure you into a more dynamic carved turn on steeper terrain.

All joking aside, find a pro at your local resort who can really lay the skis over. Then commit to a series of lessons and plan a progression. It's not going to happen in one or two hours.

Avoid the pro who is;

1. Static or in the classic "park and ride" mode
2. Overly countered from the waist down and or "braced" against the hill

Look for someone who carves and looks as though he/she wants to "go there" on every turn.
post #16 of 27
It's like combining walking, pointing our toes to change direction, and sliding on something slipery all at the same time. And it's fun hopefully. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]
post #17 of 27
Quote:
Originally posted by MC Extreme:
Why don't we just ask "Stein, could you please tell us everything needed to be an expert skier, that would cover every human being of all ability levels, and encompass everything you have ever learned about skiing. And you have 2 minutes. Stein, are you there, Stein, Stein."

Kill this one now.
Stein is in Utah. But he will be here in Snowmass at the end of the month and I will ask him. Now that I think of it, he might be here next week. One of our ski pro's is having a party. It's his 50 years of teaching party. : He came here with Stein when he opened Snowmass as the Director of skiing. Anyway, if I remember I will ask him. : ------Wigs
post #18 of 27
Quote:
Originally posted by funkybob:
If someone asked you to tell them how to ski in a paragraph or a page what would you say? I don't mean how to stand up and snow plow down the hill, I mean how to ski like a pro. not directions on how to get that good, but the actuall technique of being the perfect skier.

BoB
" Go really really fast , if something gets in your way turn . " [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Gee , I don't know what the fuss is all about . I did it in 1 sentence .
Well ,I didn't , but some Hollywood screen writer did .
post #19 of 27
Go with the glide...

"if you go with the glide you can always tell the glide where to go."
post #20 of 27
Bob,

After putting a little thought into your question I came up with three things. The first is, interestingly enough, what I use to teach beginning children.

1. Point your toes where you wants to goes.

2. Learn the feel of rolling across the sole of your foot from the big toe side to the little toe side.

3. Let your skis push you around.

That pretty much covers everything I do for my best upper level skiing (and lower level skiing for that matter).

Any questions?

Yd

PS. I've just given away my entire teaching schtic(sp) for free here on the forum and obviously ruined my ability to make a living at my profession so any donations will be appreciated.

[ December 01, 2003, 08:40 AM: Message edited by: Ydnar ]
post #21 of 27
Quote:
Originally posted by Rusty Guy:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by funkybob:
HOW DO YOU LAY OUT A GOOD CARVE ON COURDEROY.
I suggest you see a local level III cert.

Avoid the pro who is;

1. Static or in the classic "park and ride" mode
2. Overly countered from the waist down and or "braced" against the hill
</font>[/quote]heh heh unfortunately #s 1 & 2 describe a good many local level III certs!. But hey, even Park and Ride is "a good carve" and a step on the ladder to better carving.
post #22 of 27
Focus on the path you want your skis to take. Make them take that path with any combination of edging and steering. Adjust the pressure between the skis according to the snow and terrain.
See, that was easy!
post #23 of 27
First things first (but not necessarily in that order):

Turn right. Turn left. Repeat as necessary.

Expert turns are "go thoughts"--"go that way," not "stop going this way." They are offensive, done to control where you GO, not to control speed.

Ski a slow enough line as fast as you can (when you can). Control your speed by the line you ski, not by braking (except when necessary)--use turns not to control speed, but to eliminate the need to control speed! Play with the mountain--don't fight it. Make gravity your toy, your friend, and your ally--the force that slows you down or speeds you up, at your bidding--not the enemy that you fight against.

Turn your right tip right to go right, and your left tip left to go left.

Ski from your feet up--active feet and legs, stable, disciplined upper body. “Every action should have its source in the feet and its direction coming from the center.”--Peter Ralston (The Principles of Effortless Power)

Remember that good skiing movements flow in continuous cycles--they have neither beginning nor end.

Develop good habits, but practice everything! Turn when you can; brake when you must.

ALWAYS be a beginner!

Distrust anyone who says that skiing is easy. It isn't. LEARNING is easy. Skiing has never been mastered!

“Lessons are not to take the place of practice, but to make practice worthwhile.” —Harvey Penick (Little Red Book [of golf])

How fast you ski, and how difficult the terrain you can get down, bear little relevance to how skilled you are.

That's a start!

Best regards,
Bob Barnes
post #24 of 27
Hey Bob- sounds like a famous Talmudic story (or am I reading too much into your original question?)
post #25 of 27
Bob B

And where have you been??????---------Wigs
post #26 of 27
Quote:
LEARNING is easy.
I have to disagree. I have never learned anything worth knowing nor had a learning experience worth having that did not involve a healthy amount of psychic and or physical pain, fear of failure, and self-loathing--aka blood, sweat & tears. Learning takes guts, perseverance, and honesty. When you are experiencing the most pain and confusion is when you are on the cusp of a growth spurt. This is the hardest thing of all to learn--not to shrink away or be repelled from the pain and confusion but to meet it head-on and go right through it.

This is The Wall. A teacher is not afraid of The Wall because it always stands in front of An Important Insight.

Educators love cognitive dissonance. Students hate it.

[ December 02, 2003, 09:58 AM: Message edited by: nolo ]
post #27 of 27
Quote:
And where have you been??????---------Wigs
Hi Wigs--I was going to ask the same thing of you, a little while back. Then you showed up, and I've been too busy in the last couple weeks to post much of anything, unfortunately. It's good to see that you're alive and well!

I regret that I've been short on time. There have been some great discussions lately, as well as more than a few questionable points of view presented and vigorously defended in various threads....

I hope you're doing well, and getting busy over there in Snowmass.

Best regards,
Bob Barnes
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