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Mountaineering ski gear

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 
 So I have been getting into mountianering lately and would like to do some ski descents. I have read online that they make bindings that would allow me to use my mountaineering boots wiht skis so that I would only have to carry skis up but it seems like mountaineering boots wouldn't provide the support needed to be able to ski the terrain. On the other hand I hiked a small mountain(only about 1000ft of elevation gain) nearby and carried my boots and skis up and I have to say it was a real pain. Does anyone have any experience with this? Will my mountaineering boots provide more support than I think?

Thanks,
Jake
post #2 of 17
Koflach boots (and I'm sure some other plastic mountaineering boots) fit into an old model of Silvretta bindings (not sure the model), but this setup would more be meant for purely transportation (ie pulling a sled, long approach for a non-ski ascent, etc), not meant for actually enjoying the turns... you'd mostly be making survival turns with this setup if you were on any type of skiable pitch.  You're going to want an AT setup if you don't want to carry your gear on your back...  if you want an enjoyable ski descent, I wouldn't recommend going the Koflach/Silvretta setup.
post #3 of 17
I have skinned and skied numerous times to some higher saddles in the Tetons.  Mountaineering boots are great for the skin up and the climb, but are horrible for the ski down.  Ski Mountaineers often find themselves in dicey mixed conditions and prefer more substantial boots for the ski down.

Have you looked at any of the Dynafit stuff?  Plenty stout for almost all big mountain ski mountaineering routes and still nimble enough to clinb well.

Are you looking to climb technical routes or just sweeping snow ascents?  I've lost count of the guys I know who have skinned/climbed the Grand Teton in winter with the Scarpa Laser.  Do you need more than these?  If you want more binding than the Dynafits, you can always go to some of the Fritchi stuff, but I know guys that have climbed then skied pretty burly lines in Lasers with traditional Dynafit bindings.

IMHO most AT boots today would make excellent mountaineering boots.




post #4 of 17
 I skied and climbed with my Garmont Adrenalins when I was in BC.  They worked pretty well with crampons and felt good with the rockered vibram sole.  I think any decent AT boot will climb OK.  I don't personally like the Dynafit binding, but it is a good setup and I know a lot of good mountaineers who love it because it is REALLY light.
post #5 of 17
Thread Starter 
 Thanks for the suggestions I plan on using the stuff for coming down some snow climbs I am going to do. SO crampons will be neccesary to fit on the boot but it won't be anything really technical and from the sounds of it the boots you suggested are perfect for what I need.
post #6 of 17

The only simple part of this is the bindings:  get the Dynafit Vertical ST, or the Vertical FT12 if you really need a release setting higher than 10.  Or an older Dynafit model if you find a really great deal (which is almost impossible…), or the new G3 Meetu if you feel its differences merit the extra pound of weight.  (The only other AT binding models are either for hybrid bc/resort use, or for compatibility with mountaineering boots.)

 

Boots, although nowhere near as prolific as alpine downhill boots, you still have your choice of five companies (Dynafit, BD, Garmont, Scarpa, Dalbello), and the range in terms of weight vs. stiffness is huge – even just from Dynafit, everything from the four-pound (per pair!) DyNA to the twice-as-heavy Titan (compatible with both alpine downhill bindings and AT).  Scarpa has a similar range (from the F1 Carbon to Skookum), while Garmont, BD ,and Dalbello are more focused on the stiffer end of the spectrum.

 

Skis, the choices go on forever, including any “flat” alpine downhill model and many AT-specific skis (including Dynafit models that have predrilled plugs to accept Dynafit or G3 Meetu bindings).

post #7 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by tam View Post

Koflach boots (and I'm sure some other plastic mountaineering boots) fit into an old model of Silvretta bindings (not sure the model), but this setup would more be meant for purely transportation (ie pulling a sled, long approach for a non-ski ascent, etc), not meant for actually enjoying the turns... you'd mostly be making survival turns with this setup if you were on any type of skiable pitch.  You're going to want an AT setup if you don't want to carry your gear on your back...  if you want an enjoyable ski descent, I wouldn't recommend going the Koflach/Silvretta setup.
Silvretta 300/400/404/500 work with mountaineering boots.  (The 500LSV is the current model.)  The 505 works with some, but not all (b/c of its step-in heel, instead of latch-in design).
But like you say, great for approaches, but pretty tough for any real descents.
post #8 of 17
Thread Starter 
 One last question for you guys. How do these boots hike because I plan on using them for the fourteeners here in CO and many of them require either an approach or have considerable mellow slopes for portions.
post #9 of 17
^ Personally, if I'm going to be hiking for more than a half-mile or so on dry ground, I prefer to wear a pair of hiking shoes and carry my boots.  Of course, it depends: skinning, climbing on snow, or short dry spots, no problem, but for a distance on dry trails or bushwhacking your ski boots can be a pain.  I've done a few 14ers in spring and that works for me.  

I'll stash the hikers to pick up on return if the route allows it.  
post #10 of 17
I loved the Scarpa Laser for hiking. Man, it was like wearing a hiking boot with even more ankle and calf support. But I couldn't ski in those things, just couldn't do it, so I sold them. I bought a pair of Salomon hybrid boots, the ones Chris Davenport (I think) was using for mountaineering a few years back. They're OK. (Epic thread on them: http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/32748/salomon-a-t-boots).

 I hear good things about Garmont, BTW.
post #11 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by tam View Post

Koflach boots (and I'm sure some other plastic mountaineering boots) fit into an old model of Silvretta bindings (not sure the model), but this setup would more be meant for purely transportation (ie pulling a sled, long approach for a non-ski ascent, etc), not meant for actually enjoying the turns... you'd mostly be making survival turns with this setup if you were on any type of skiable pitch.  You're going to want an AT setup if you don't want to carry your gear on your back...  if you want an enjoyable ski descent, I wouldn't recommend going the Koflach/Silvretta setup.

This post really caught my eye.  My first set-up was a pair of Koflach Ultra's & some old Silvretta bindings, 505's or 404's maybe.  They were great for climbing & crampons, but left a lot to be desired for actually skiing.  I finally called it quits to those when exiting a steep couloir & having my foot literally fall out of the binding.  I would not recommend it, they offer virtually no support for edging & not enough of a toe to be reliable in even a bale type binding.  Get some good lightweight rockered AT boots.





JF
post #12 of 17
Gotta agree with the full AT set-up to hike/ski  Colorado 14ers.  My set-up is K2 Mt. Baker superlight skis (floppy, but they weigh almost nothing), Dynafit TLT bindings, and Dynafit ZZero boots (superlight, but expensive to resole, and you WILL trash the soles hiking 14ers once the snow is gone from the trails).  Think about something like Camp XLC Nanotech-F crampons if you want to climb (not hike) Dead Dog couloir, Emperor couloir, etc. I like the Petzl SnoScopic ice axe/ski pole for steeps; most other folks like the BD Whippet.  To each, their own.
post #13 of 17
Thread Starter 
 raspritz I have been looking at the grivel g12s are the camps better in your opinion? I am thinking that just for budgets sake I my buy a pair of semi ridged mountaineering boots and just carry my ski boots. They are heavy but I am pretty sure I can deal with it for doing 14 ers/. Anything higher/more technical would require a full plastic any way.
post #14 of 17
In alpine climbing (which includes ski-mountaineering), weight is your enemy.  IMO, Grivel makes mostly heavy, not-well-designed gear (though I love their superlight axe, which I've taken everywhere, but recently replaced with a Camp Corsa axe, at a crazy-light 205 gm).  The G12 is a general-purpose crampon, weighing 962 gm; it will work just fine. The Camp XLC Nanotech F is a specialty alpine mountaineering crampon and weighs 482 gm.  However, I wouldn't take the Camp gear to go ice-climbing at Ouray or on the north face of the Eiger. With your alpine boots, crampons, axe, and alpine skis and bindings you'll be carrying fifteen or twenty pounds more than me, which is a lot. It will only take a few trips like that (or one real BC trip to a hut) before you start skipping meals to save up for a good AT set-up. 
Edited by raspritz - 11/11/09 at 8:14am
post #15 of 17
Thread Starter 
 I don't plan on doing much ice climbing if any. Would recommend the Camp than over the grivel since I plan on doing almost exclusively alpine mountaineering? 
post #16 of 17
Your choice of crampons will depend on what use you mean by "alpine mountaineering". If (as I think) you mean non-technical climbing/hiking on Colorado 14ers, snow-climbing, or the west buttress of Denali, something like the Camps might be what you want (but aluminum crampons wear down quickly, though these have steel front-points, which seems a big advance).  If you mean something more like the Y-Couloir on Pikes Peak, the Notch Couloir on Long's Peak, or anywhere else you'd be wearing crampons climbing on both rock and snow/ice, you need something beefier like the Grivel (though I personally still probably wouldn't choose the Grivel, but obviously some folks do). Most of us own more than one set of crampons. Over the years, I've gravitated towards lighter crampons in the mountains, as they've gotten better and I've gotten worse. They say a pound off your feet is worth ten off your pack. 
post #17 of 17
If I'm planning on hard ice or mixed (rocky) conditions I take the steel 'pons.  If it's just snow I usually reach for the aluminum.  The light weight of aluminum makes a difference.  

I use Black Diamond's clip-on crampons - Sabretooth and Neve - because they fit ski boots perfectly.  
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