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MA request - skiing on easy groomer (video inside)

post #1 of 82
Thread Starter 
Hi, you guys havent seen me skiing in a while so here we go. I was going through some videos of my skiing last year and I thaught this clip looked pritty relaxed and controlled. What do you think?



tdk6
post #2 of 82
What kind of feedback are you seeking?
post #3 of 82
Relaxed and controlled...? What are you trying to show?

Technical errors are most glaring when a skier is skiing at their peak performance level... less so at lower levels. I've seen better turns from you for sure, but they aren't bad... but a bit uninspired maybe? If its a pat on the back you are seeking... the season is still young.
post #4 of 82
 TDK6,  

Why are you lifting your inside ski tail?

Why the big counter at edge change?

The skiing looks very lazy and static, strictly riding the ski design without any shaping?  It looks old school on new skis!

I agree with Helluva, I have seen better skiing from you.
post #5 of 82
In an intermediate parrallel demonstration like this... I would reccommend turning the legs to create the direction change rather than trying to actively counter with the upper body at the the start of the turn. This should allow you to be allow you to be better balanced on your edges and move progressively through out the turn. Actively dropping the hip inside gets you all locked up.  
post #6 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by bud heishman View Post

 TDK6,  

Why are you lifting your inside ski tail?

 

If I've seen correctly, at least during the last turn, the whole inside ski was lifted, not only the tail.
Intentionally to show something to your students (if you had any during that time)?
post #7 of 82
Thread Starter 
ssh, looking for general feedback whatever that might be .
Heluva, yes its not peak performance but I dont ski very aggressively and fast all the time. If you want to give me a pat on the back feel free to do so .
Bud, you are correct. Im riding the ski design with no shaping. Its actually a pritty good demo of how this particular SL ski turns according to its design. Not a very tight radius turn. In order to turn it more sharply I could eather start working harder bending the ski or slip into steering. Steering would slow me down because of the friction and also the tighter turn radius. Bending the ski more would accelerat me due to rebound momentum even if the radius became tighter. Acutally when you look at me Im not going that slow at all. Its actually pritty fast for very relaxed skiing. Old school on new skis LOL! Its the close upright stance and the counter that makes it look like old school doesent it. But great style never goes out of fashion I read in the morning paper today.... You mention two things, counter and lifting the ski. Do you think I should have tried to face downhill with my upper body through out the whole ski progression to form anticipation insted of forming an upside down counter at turn initiation or should I have stayed square the whole time? The ski lifting maybe a leftover from previous drill, the javelin turn. I dont remember but maybe it was so that I started out with both skis on the snow but then in that one righthand turn you can see a slight struggle and to slip back into controlled outside ski pressure I lifted the inside ski up. Maybe it was just a demo of how you can eather lift it up or leave it on the snow. Leaving it on the snow would be closer to the final result .
Nobody, yes, as matter of fact I was working with some friends on balance and this was a demo of how Im outside ski dominant even though my skis are both on the snow. There should be no change in upper body movements when picking it up or leaving it on the snow. Good comment, thanks .
skinerd, Im not following you here. Could you explain a bit more in detail. What kind of movement are you talking about when you say I should turn my legs? When you say turning legs to change direction it sounds like some kind of pivot where I point my skis into a new direction insted of tipping the skis on edge and waiting for them to start turning on their own?
post #8 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeluvaSkier View Post

Relaxed and controlled...? What are you trying to show?

Technical errors are most glaring when a skier is skiing at their peak performance level... less so at lower levels. I've seen better turns from you for sure, but they aren't bad... but a bit uninspired maybe? If its a pat on the back you are seeking... the season is still young.
Actually, technical error are often most glaring when using skills at a slow speed and low slope angle. Speed blurs a lot of issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bud heishman View Post

 TDK6,  

Why are you lifting your inside ski tail?

Why the big counter at edge change?

The skiing looks very lazy and static, strictly riding the ski design without any shaping?  It looks old school on new skis!

I agree with Helluva, I have seen better skiing from you.
Totally agree with the static. In fact, mid-turn your body seems to stop moving completely. Your feet being so jammed together mean that you're literally getting into your own way and blocking natural movements. Most people will find it much more confining to move with the entire legs touching from crotch to ankles... 

Ironically, as Bud points out, a number of the movements that you are making are extraneous. Those up-and-down movements of the feet are extraneous and will have negative consequences. If you allow your feet to separate a bit, operate independently, and if you keep a nice set of movements like a pendulum (no stopping, no sudden changes, but nice back-and-forth), your performance (and comfort!) will improve dramatically.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post

ssh, looking for general feedback whatever that might be .
Heluva, yes its not peak performance but I dont ski very aggressively and fast all the time. If you want to give me a pat on the back feel free to do so .
Bud, you are correct. Im riding the ski design with no shaping. Its actually a pritty good demo of how this particular SL ski turns according to its design. Not a very tight radius turn. In order to turn it more sharply I could eather start working harder bending the ski or slip into steering. Steering would slow me down because of the friction and also the tighter turn radius. Bending the ski more would accelerat me due to rebound momentum even if the radius became tighter. Acutally when you look at me Im not going that slow at all. Its actually pritty fast for very relaxed skiing. Old school on new skis LOL! Its the close upright stance and the counter that makes it look like old school doesent it. But great style never goes out of fashion I read in the morning paper today.... You mention two things, counter and lifting the ski. Do you think I should have tried to face downhill with my upper body through out the whole ski progression to form anticipation insted of forming an upside down counter at turn initiation or should I have stayed square the whole time? The ski lifting maybe a leftover from previous drill, the javelin turn. I dont remember but maybe it was so that I started out with both skis on the snow but then in that one righthand turn you can see a slight struggle and to slip back into controlled outside ski pressure I lifted the inside ski up. Maybe it was just a demo of how you can eather lift it up or leave it on the snow. Leaving it on the snow would be closer to the final result .
Nobody, yes, as matter of fact I was working with some friends on balance and this was a demo of how Im outside ski dominant even though my skis are both on the snow. There should be no change in upper body movements when picking it up or leaving it on the snow. Good comment, thanks .
skinerd, Im not following you here. Could you explain a bit more in detail. What kind of movement are you talking about when you say I should turn my legs? When you say turning legs to change direction it sounds like some kind of pivot where I point my skis into a new direction insted of tipping the skis on edge and waiting for them to start turning on their own?
I don't think you're getting any of the real performance out of those skis. Your foot location both in terms of being locked together and in terms of them being so much under your body instead of out away from it, means that you aren't getting as much pressure on the skis as they are designed to have, and you are not nearly as outside ski dominant as you seem to think... It would help you get more out of the skis if you were more outside ski dominant.
post #9 of 82
Thread Starter 
Thanks for your feedback ssh. Yes, Im not getting much performance out of my skis in this clip. I also agree with you that slow skiing brings out stuff that you are able to cover up at higher speeds. In a ski school environment this is very obvious but in a race coaching environment its not allways so. I personally like skiing slowly. I actually enjoy skiing slowly with students snaking behind. If you dont like that then being an instructor can be somewhat frustrating.

As you probably know I also ski with a wider stance but I enjoy skiing with my skis tight together because thats what I did for so many years and I feel comfortable that way and I still do it when circumstances or mood calls for it. Like in powder, crudd or bumps. Or like in this video. When carving for performance or skiing a race track I use a wider stance. Im sort of like an all mountain skier. Not a racer. Anyway, why do you say my skiing is not particulary outside ski dominant? Im lifting inside ski up in the air. Isnt that outside ski dominant if all my weight is on my outside ski?
post #10 of 82
 Good turns for a golf cart. 
post #11 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh View Post

Actually, technical error are often most glaring when using skills at a slow speed and low slope angle. Speed blurs a lot of issues.

Maybe when you're addressing low level skiing - sure its easy to see errors of a skier wherever they are skiing. It is pretty easy for an accomplished skier to make good turns absent of many glaring technical errors on easy terrain. The reason is the movement range required for steeper terrain and high speed is significantly greater than that required for flat terrain at slow speeds. tdk is a skilled enough skier to be able to cover up some [bigger] issues with his skiing that are very apparent in slightly more high energy turns. Easy terrain is very useful in training new movements/skills, etc, but the opposite end of the spectrum needs to also be investigated if a skier is going to take their skiing to the next level. Plus... speed only covers up issues to those who do not have a trained enough eye to recognize those issues at speed.

Later

Greg
post #12 of 82
I must be in the minority here because I really liked this skiing. Very smooth, relaxed, and elegant. Sometimes it's fun to just "ride the sidecut", and he sure is laying down some carved tracks here (no skidding). If I were riding a chairlift and saw this guy coming down the hill-I'd for sure watch his skiing.
post #13 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post

Thanks for your feedback ssh. Yes, Im not getting much performance out of my skis in this clip. I also agree with you that slow skiing brings out stuff that you are able to cover up at higher speeds. In a ski school environment this is very obvious but in a race coaching environment its not allways so. I personally like skiing slowly. I actually enjoy skiing slowly with students snaking behind. If you dont like that then being an instructor can be somewhat frustrating.

As you probably know I also ski with a wider stance but I enjoy skiing with my skis tight together because thats what I did for so many years and I feel comfortable that way and I still do it when circumstances or mood calls for it. Like in powder, crudd or bumps. Or like in this video. When carving for performance or skiing a race track I use a wider stance. Im sort of like an all mountain skier. Not a racer. Anyway, why do you say my skiing is not particulary outside ski dominant? Im lifting inside ski up in the air. Isnt that outside ski dominant if all my weight is on my outside ski?
Your inside ski isn't lifted for the entire turn, but rather at the front of the turn, then nestled back down in the belly of the turn and weight moved to it about then. In fact, I think you're settling quite a bit of your balance onto that inside ski from the belly of the turn on. In the first 4 turns, it's there throughout the turn (I don't think you're lifting the outside ski in those earlier turns).

You're lifting that ski to get it out of the way so that you can start your new turn, not for pressure distribution reasons. When you start to fall inside the turn, you settle onto that inside ski and balance on both skis. Again, not outside ski dominant for the most part.
post #14 of 82
Quote:
skinerd, Im not following you here. Could you explain a bit more in detail. What kind of movement are you talking about when you say I should turn my legs? When you say turning legs to change direction it sounds like some kind of pivot where I point my skis into a new direction insted of tipping the skis on edge and waiting for them to start turning on their own?

 

Yep that's exactly what I meant... pivot with the legs (IE: turning the femur in the hip socket to change the direction of the skis) of course I thought you trying to do an intermediate parallel demo... I didn't realize you were trying to carve.

In this case I would still recommend using the legs to initiate the turn... just on a lateral plane.  If you rotate the femur in the hip socket and pronate your foot your knee will move in slightly which will put your ski on edge... of course the hips have to move inside as well and this is where the majority of the edge angle comes from but if you actively over counter with the upper body and drop your hip at the start of the turn, you will loose mobility and cannot progressively increase the edge... if you can increase the edge progressively you will achieve some impulse and get energy out of the ski.
post #15 of 82
You look like a ski instructor.

If I  were asked for advice I would say to relax a little more and think a little less, bend a little more, tip a little more, play a little more.
post #16 of 82
 Bend a little more for sure.  That's very static looking skiing.  
post #17 of 82
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeluvaSkier View Post




Maybe when you're addressing low level skiing - sure its easy to see errors of a skier wherever they are skiing. It is pretty easy for an accomplished skier to make good turns absent of many glaring technical errors on easy terrain. The reason is the movement range required for steeper terrain and high speed is significantly greater than that required for flat terrain at slow speeds. tdk is a skilled enough skier to be able to cover up some [bigger] issues with his skiing that are very apparent in slightly more high energy turns. Easy terrain is very useful in training new movements/skills, etc, but the opposite end of the spectrum needs to also be investigated if a skier is going to take their skiing to the next level. Plus... speed only covers up issues to those who do not have a trained enough eye to recognize those issues at speed.

Later

Greg


 

Skiing slowly or fast is by no means accepted as an excuse for inferior technique and flaws and a good eye can snap it up no matter what kind of speed or terrain is skied. And yes, if you never ramp it up and start to ski outside your comfort zone you will most likely never improve. Still this kind of skiing is not really all that simple. Speed is not slow and that narrow stance in combination with edge locked carving puts your balance on the line.
post #18 of 82
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiteebow View Post

I must be in the minority here because I really liked this skiing. Very smooth, relaxed, and elegant. Sometimes it's fun to just "ride the sidecut", and he sure is laying down some carved tracks here (no skidding). If I were riding a chairlift and saw this guy coming down the hill-I'd for sure watch his skiing.
 

Thanks. This is not efficient high energy carving, its more just elegant cruicing. But just as you pointed out, no skidding. That is important.  Thanks for watching .
post #19 of 82
Fun to watch tdk6 regardless. Do you feel like a Voodoo doll with a bunch of pins stuck in ya. Here's my pin...........the transition is lacking because of balance issues. Thanks for listening,ok-bye.
post #20 of 82
Thread Starter 
One more pin I can cope with I hope . My transition is lakcing because of balance issues! Good shot, care to tell me a bit more? All transitions or/and one in particular?
post #21 of 82
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh View Post


Your inside ski isn't lifted for the entire turn, but rather at the front of the turn, then nestled back down in the belly of the turn and weight moved to it about then. In fact, I think you're settling quite a bit of your balance onto that inside ski from the belly of the turn on. In the first 4 turns, it's there throughout the turn (I don't think you're lifting the outside ski in those earlier turns).

You're lifting that ski to get it out of the way so that you can start your new turn, not for pressure distribution reasons. When you start to fall inside the turn, you settle onto that inside ski and balance on both skis. Again, not outside ski dominant for the most part.
 

You are right. Im not as outside ski dominant as I could be. More angulation?

BTW, Im not really clear why I would need to get that inside ski out of the way? In what way would it be blocking?
post #22 of 82
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by skinerd View Post




Yep that's exactly what I meant... pivot with the legs (IE: turning the femur in the hip socket to change the direction of the skis) of course I thought you trying to do an intermediate parallel demo... I didn't realize you were trying to carve.

In this case I would still recommend using the legs to initiate the turn... just on a lateral plane.  If you rotate the femur in the hip socket and pronate your foot your knee will move in slightly which will put your ski on edge... of course the hips have to move inside as well and this is where the majority of the edge angle comes from but if you actively over counter with the upper body and drop your hip at the start of the turn, you will loose mobility and cannot progressively increase the edge... if you can increase the edge progressively you will achieve some impulse and get energy out of the ski.

Good feedback here too skinerd. Yes I was trying to carve and not to skidd. I have some video of that too from this same day so maybe I should try and fit together a video of both styles.

So what you are saying is that I should not "counter" as much as I do at the beginning of the turn. Tip more. And then progressively angulate?
post #23 of 82
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post

You look like a ski instructor.

If I  were asked for advice I would say to relax a little more and think a little less, bend a little more, tip a little more, play a little more.
 

Bend? Bend how?
post #24 of 82
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigE View Post

 Bend a little more for sure.  That's very static looking skiing.  

 

Bend! Bend how?
post #25 of 82
Flex in your ankles, knees and spine. 
post #26 of 82
GarryZ,

You forgot hips. All six leg joints need to be moving. 
post #27 of 82
No not all bad. The last 2 transitions stand out. It's the old tail kick move. You have better balance on 2 feet than one. Every ask yourself why do I lift a ski to turn,sometimes.  Move down your path early from 1 turn to the next keeping your edges always in the snow. You have a nice touch,go for big angles. Relax & Smile it really works. Have a great season,tdk6.
post #28 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigE View Post

GarryZ,

You forgot hips. All six leg joints need to be moving. 
Thank you. Without the hips acting you would be stiff indeed and not making use of your strongest hinge.
post #29 of 82
Thread Starter 
Why do you guys think I should flex at the waist and when? Transition? Apex? During whole progression top to bottom? Are you thinking of "more" bend at the waist or just "sometimes"?

I cannot flex much at the ancles since my boots are quite stiff and in this clip they are also very upright. What am I missing?
post #30 of 82
Stand in your living room and stand in your athletic stance with shoulders over hips over your feet and lower your upper body using all of these joints .You'll see flex in all of these parts in order to stay balanced and  you'll feel tension in your shin muscles and lower back .When you flex use all of these .

Allow your body to move more to take advantage of terrain and turn forces. When you extend the reverse will occur. You'll still be centered but able to adapt to unexpected terrain while maintaining the pressure you wish to apply. Flexing the ankles is what people do when they pull their feet back later in the turn . Flex these joints as you finish in your type of turn in centered balance and you lesson or eliminate the need for a big correction of balance later.
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