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heel lifts do i need them?

post #1 of 9
Thread Starter 
  I ski in a fischer w/c pro 130 . I have a good range of flexion in my ankles 12 degrees on my left foot and 14 on my right foot.Footbeds are instaprint .The heel lift is about a 5mm  thick and was added to even out the difference in degrees on my feet and to bring me forward a little.
       I ski with the spoilers out but still feel a liitle bit aft on the ski. Do i need those heel lifts ?When standing in the shell with out the linners in i feel is i am being tip forward and if i move forward a little it feels like i may fall over the front and this puts a little tension on my upper legs when i stand in the shells to ,so my legs are bent and my torso is upright.
     With spoiler in,or with the spoiler out just does not feel right to.

      
post #2 of 9
Quote: from eddy:

 
  I ski in a fischer w/c pro 130 . I have a good range of flexion in my ankles 12 degrees on my left foot and 14 on my right foot.Footbeds are instaprint .The heel lift is about a 5mm  thick and was added to even out the difference in degrees on my feet and to bring me forward a little.
       I ski with the spoilers out but still feel a liitle bit aft on the ski. Do i need those heel lifts ?When standing in the shell with out the linners in i feel is i am being tip forward and if i move forward a little it feels like i may fall over the front and this puts a little tension on my upper legs when i stand in the shells to ,so my legs are bent and my torso is upright.
     With spoiler in,or with the spoiler out just does not feel right to.

a few reference questions that will help us give you a better response:

what does the set up feel like while you are skiing?

tell us about your skiing...how, where, when, frequency, speed?

do you know your net FL? cuff/lower angle - boot board angle = net FL

what is the result of your quest going to look and feel like?

how did you decide to put in a heel lift?

how did you decide that adding a heel lift was mo better?

where did the ankle ROM numbers come from? 12 or 14 is pretty normal.

jim
post #3 of 9
Thread Starter 
 Hi Jim,
1.The fitter placed a superfeet measure device under feet i lifted toes up  the fitter then recorded the measurement.
2.The fitter recommended heel lifts.
3.The fischer boot i think has a forward lean angle of 18 degrees boot board angle not known may be about 5-7 degrees .
4.I ski most of the season in europe 12 weeks on average .I ski mainly on  3v 165cm lab skis.
5. When skiing for,aft seems to be  centre to a little aft legs  feel less  bent  as compare when standing static in shells.   Does not feel as bad when skiing as when standing static in the shells.Short -to long arcs ok using inclination and angulation   moving lateral.When doing short arc with more skid ie in bumps or steeper groom slopes legs feel a bit  more bent i feel more aft and legs feel harder to extend and flex .
6.Does not feel great with spoilers in or out.
7.I decided heel lift may be no better by how if felt standing in the shells .
post #4 of 9
ok eddy,

thanks for the responses.

we look for signs that something with your set-up falls outside of the normal range.

if you have 12 and 14 degrees of ankle ROM, and your boot has a net angle of 11 to 15 degrees ( 18 degrees minus the bootboard angle of 5, 6, or 7) then the answer for you will be one of personal choice. i believe that the Fischer boot board is closer to the 4 to 5 degree range, which once again means that your ROM at 12/14 still appears like a good match about 13 or 14 degrees.

so, do you leave it in or take it out? i would recommend that you do a 2 run test on some hard snow in the early season. take one run without the heel  lift. make different turn shapes at different speeds and plenty of transitions from short to long and long to short. you will know what feels best after those two runs.

in my opinion, static assessment of fore aft balance is a nice thing to check as part of the alignment process, and certainly static comfort is something that can be looked at indoors. On the hill, it is another story. could putting a heel lift in or taking a heel lift out make a difference in your balance for skiing? probably yes. it is  possible that differences that show up when you switch speed, terrain, skis, or snow conditions are related to the angles of the boot. it could also be possible that when feelings change for changing parameters, there are subtle changes that you either make or do not make in your approach to the changing conditions that effect your balance over your feet. simple moves like re-centering in between turns or leaving the body inside the turn might get you thinking that the equipment is not the problem.

some of the obvious signs that your fore aft balance is off include:

bent over at the waist
back arched excessively
knees way over the front of the boot
hips stuck back behind ankle
constant tension on the quad muscles
constant tension on the hamstrings
skiing in a very static stance
starting your turns with a skidded action
unable to start your turns without some serious body english
etc, etc, etc

also consider taking a lesson with an instructor/coach/guide that can assess your skills and eliminate the equipment variables of fore aft boot balance, lateral alignment, and binding delta on the hill.  

jim
post #5 of 9
Thread Starter 
 Thanks jim .One last thing do the spoilers affect the forward lean angle of the boot?
Are the boots 18 degrees with them in ?and lees than 18 with them out?
post #6 of 9
 eddy,

JIm is spot on with his suggestions!  I may add that while testing on hill, you may want to experiment with shimming outside the boot, more specifically placing no more than a 3mm shim between your boot toe and the AFD pad on your binding toe piece.  This will tip the whole boot more upright without changing the internal net forward lean.

Spoilers in or out will make a difference in the forward lean.  Also consider your calf muscle size and location as this will have an affect on the forward lean as well. A larger more muscular or thick calf muscle will increase your forward lean.
post #7 of 9
Thread Starter 
 Bud thank you for your suggestion i will try that.

With the spoilers in i feel my  knees go to forward over my toe.With the spoilers out i am a little more upright ,my calf is about 14 inch and i end up having to tighten the top buckel tight with a booster strap to .I think also the calf/lower leg has been raise now out of the boots with the heel lifts making more space around the top of the boot without the spoiler.

I know my skis run flat  and just need to tweak this part of my set up.

So do i just need to experiment ?I think spoilers in with toe lift  may be the answer .
post #8 of 9
 report back and let us know how your on hill testing results went!
post #9 of 9
Thread Starter 
 Hi ,Jim

I Think the angles of my boots how they  meet the ski and snow may be the caused of my problem.I thought i ran a flat ski but i do not .When i bring my skis closer for bumps etc i stand on the outside edges.When skiing normal i have to open my stance to about  shoulder width to bring the skis flat /slightly on to there inside edges.I think the heel lifts in or out make no difference .Is this normal as you change your stance width  the angle of how the ski meets the snow also changes?

Many Thanks,
Eddy.
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