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Exercises before Snow Season starts again? - Page 2

post #31 of 63
Load the spine to develop greater bone density. We need strong bones to survive our mistakes. Makes sense to keep them strong through the years with some targeted workout.
post #32 of 63
I would like to say that i'm very impressed with the level of knowledge here regarding weight training, what i'm specifically referring to is those recommending heavy compound lifts such as the Bench press, Deadlift, and Squat variations. IMO these are the lifts skiers should be using in the off season to build super strong legs and bullet proof knees. Other lifts to consider would be Good Mornings, Romain Deadlifts, Stiff legged deadlift, Glute-ham raise, Lunges, and the Olympic lifts(probably only if you have someone to coach you). These are the lifts i'm doing in the off season and will continue to do during the season but at a much lesser volume.

For "pre-season" prep I like to start to focus on building "strength-endurance" which is what skiing is all about. In skiing you need to be able to apply huge amounts of force for around 1-3 minutes(for me anyway). To replicate this in the gym I do the following.

High resistance biking 3x 30-45 secs ( resistance turned way up, at the end you legs should be on fire)

Squats 3x 20 ( go super light, my 1rm on a back squat is about 350, here though i'm using around 80-100lbs, and again at the end your legs should be on fire at the end of every set)

Bike-1x 5 mins, lower resistance

That's it, quick and simple, should take around 20 minutes to complete. I do this 4/days/weeks for the month leading up to the season.

Regarding core traing- Heavy lifting is the best core training you can do, people dont realize that the squat and deadlift require tremendous amounts of core strength and also a type of strength that is much more applicable to skiing than any type of crunch or sit-up. Good core training for skiing could also involve rotational work with a medicine ball, just something to consider.    
post #33 of 63
 Great ideas Tmay.  Are you a racer?
post #34 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmay11 View Post


Regarding core traing- Heavy lifting is the best core training you can do, people dont realize that the squat and deadlift require tremendous amounts of core strength and also a type of strength that is much more applicable to skiing than any type of crunch or sit-up. Good core training for skiing could also involve rotational work with a medicine ball, just something to consider.    

 


On Tuesday, we did 21-15-9 (that's reps) of dead lifts (me at 185#) and hand stand push ups.  So you do 21 deadlifts, 21 HSPU.

Then yesterday we did 21-15-9 Thrusters and pull-ups.  A Thruster is a front squat into a push-press or over head with the bar..

My core is feeling it big time right now.  I think situps are great, but doing the combination as in above, you can push the core so much further and engage more muscles in a functional way.  Dead lifts for the lower back and back in general are phenomenal.  Hams and Gluts are crushed.  And pull up, especially kipping pull-ups require the full core.

With the brief amount of time, strength training combined with met-coms will provide the biggest bang for the buck.  You can still ride your bike or run or kayak.  You should do activities.  But this is where the conditioning is at.

And then there's the nutrition part of the equation.
post #35 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTKook View Post

^^^Very impressive, but even a lot of racers are moving away from heavy strength training.  For plyometrics,  for say high school kids who race and train every day a lot of people don't believe in doing many plyometrics for supplemental training because the benefit is, for most, outweighed by the risk of injury if there's a big focus on this. 
.

Very important point, don't get hurt.  I heard that a pro ball player got hurt in the gym recently in an accident where weights were dropped.  It happens, but your program is supposed to help your skiing not put you out for the season.

Kids in high school weight training programs are at higher risk for injury.  Plus the leadership is often not well qualified to do this type of training.  I used to ask my son Matt what they did that day and his reply was "bench press" nearly every time.
post #36 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz View Post

 Great ideas Tmay.  Are you a racer?

No, not a racer, just an avid skier who is very interested in weight training and it's applications to sports.
post #37 of 63

I use to ski into shape but that doesn't seem to work anymore so a few of us senior skiers are trail running before the season. One spot is a pile of rocks just a few miles away. I made up an excuse to catch my breathe to take a few pictures.



 

post #38 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Jones View Post





Kids in high school weight training programs are at higher risk for injury.  Plus the leadership is often not well qualified to do this type of training.  I used to ask my son Matt what they did that day and his reply was "bench press" nearly every time.


 

High school weight training programs are almost always poorly designed. I know that when I was in high school, only 3 years ago, it was a horrible program that we were following.

Like you said, poor leadership, kids want to work on the "beach muscles" and so, if left to their  own, will almost always follow an awesome program of bench pressing and curling...

It's so important to make sure that everything is balanced out, that the antagonist muscle are worked with equal volume and intensity.

Example- If you are doing  5 sets of 5 for Bench at 70% of 1rm you better make sure that you are doing something very similar in terms of volume and intensity for a rowing exercise. That is why I think it is best to organize your template is terms of movements not muscle groups. Movements being vertical pushing/pulling, horizontal pushing/pulling etc.
post #39 of 63
Slider,

Nice gym
post #40 of 63

Lotds of focus on Weights. You need cardio too.

Here is my old ski coaches, Quick and dirty running program.
Monday Wed Friday 1-3 miles. Just go run don't kill your self.
Tuesday Saturday 10X 110 yards "sprints" Start slow, after 10 or so yards go to full sprint, slow down gradually. Walk back to start point, let pulse drop down ,but not totally recover before next "sprint"
Thursday Sunday 7 to 10 hill sprints similar to 10X110 except on hills, so slower pace maybe longer. Walk down to recover.

Efffective but tough to get motivated to do.
I'm more into mountain biking and hiking for cardio now.
Some racers I know were really into Soccer, Tennis and raquetball for training. The fun of the sport makes it easier to push yourself.

post #41 of 63
I like what is shown in the video.  The gymnastics and agility drills are innovative.  The weight training looks pretty well done.

I got a laugh at the spotter standing behind the back squat.  He looks like his ready to catch the bar if needed.
post #42 of 63
Every time I read a fittness article in a ski magazine, I find 'Core Strength' is a misused term in relation to what they describe. They always seem to be obsessed with abdominal muscles and sit ups as the definition of a core strength routine. First of all, abdominal muscles are not core muscles -- they are a major muscle group. 'Core' refers to the secondary stablizing musculature that supports the primary muscle groups. Secondly, every major muscle groups has core support, not just the abdominals. Why some skit fittness articles seem to be obsessed with abdominal muscles as some end-all and be-all of skiing fittness and core strength, is beyond me.

If you really want to develop core strength, stay away from weight machines. Without exception, weight machines(including things like a Smith macihne) are designed to stimulate a particular muscle or major group and very little of the stablizers(core) are employed. If a mag article tells you to develop core strenght by doing an exercise utilizing a weight machine, disregard everything else you read in the mag.  Use free-weights that require one to use core muscles to stabliize the weights while working out the muscle group--preferably, use dumbbells, kettlebells, etc.

Also, try to not concentrate so much on things where you are simply lying prone or static or using some type of mechnaical assiatance to brace you. Try to work in some reps where you use the free weights in conjunction with some cardio activity -- like moving a 100 pounds kettlebell back and forth accross the gym like you are doing a shuttle run. Do kettle bell swings, squats while holding dumbbells, lunging squats accross the gym with dumbbells,etc.. Did I mention, stay away from weight machines?  Mix it up and change your routine every two weeks. 

A good exercise in place of the situps done on a flat surface, one that will REALLY work out core muscles, is using a friend to toss you a gym ball in-between reps while you do sit-ups on a Roman Chair reclined to 45 degrres. Every time you come up for a rep, the assistant will toss the ball either to your right, the left, or overhead. You need to constantly be reacting, moving left and right with your upper body, and stablizing yourself to catch the ball every time you come to the apex of your situp. This also is good for coordination and timing you muscle reactions to a real event. Affter a while, use a medicine ball of 5-20 pounds -- do 50-100 reps and you WILL feel what core means.



 


 
post #43 of 63
Core
Over head squats ,Front squat,Thrusters,Kipping pullups,Weighted over head walking lunges,Kettlebell swings,Handstands,Hollow rocks & L-sits . Just to name a few.
Still work the abs ,just don't think 100 sit ups is strengthing your "core".
Get yourself a 3 min.L-sit and you'll laugh at all other "core" training
post #44 of 63
Deadlifts too
post #45 of 63
I was surprised, the female racers in that video have decent squat form and oly lifting shoes, but they are not going low enough :(, but decent training video compared to what you usually see. Would also say they need more posterior chain work (deadlifts, GHR, kettlebell work).

And totally agree on 'core' as discussed above, kettlebells are awesome, turkish get-ups, L-sits (3 min lobo, I wish!) etc. and of course the core compound lifts (heavy/low reps) is the best "core" work you can do. Stability ball stuff is mostless useless.
post #46 of 63
gramboh,
No 3 min l-sit for me .my best was 54 sec.
The 3 min is a quote from Glassman.

And I was gonna call them out on those squats not being deep enough ,but I was nice
post #47 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by gramboh View Post

I was surprised, the female racers in that video have decent squat form and oly lifting shoes, but they are not going low enough :(, but decent training video compared to what you usually see. Would also say they need more posterior chain work (deadlifts, GHR, kettlebell work).

 

How do you determine low enough in a squat for ski a skiing specific workout?
What is the basis (scientific or unscientific or tribal knowledge) for the depth of your squats.
 Remember these are world cup skiers training at Norway's Olympic training center. So maybe they are doing it right and you are doing it wrong.

When I was racing in college I would do squats, high squats and hack squats. I always figured the lowest ones, the Hack squats were the least skiing specific and the high squats were the most skiing specific.
post #48 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by NordtheBarbarian View Post

Getting in shape for skiing is easy. Just do these exercises.
Remember to use more like double the weight shown for the Squats and Jump squats if you're a guy.
The cushion jump course is really cool.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KXr4v-mASM&feature=fvw
Pfffft
I do all those with my ski boots on
post #49 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by NordtheBarbarian View Post



Remember these are world cup skiers training at Norway's Olympic training center. So maybe they are doing it right and you are doing it wrong.

When I was racing in college I would do squats, high squats and hack squats. I always figured the lowest ones, the Hack squats were the least skiing specific and the high squats were the most skiing specific.
 

We are doing right.  Below parallel.

I am impressed by their program, but it should not be skiing specific.  Especially for skiers - a broad range of fitness is the best approach.
post #50 of 63
www.hudsonvalleycrossfit.com/.a/6a00e54f76b5be88330111689130cf970c-pi

Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post



Pfffft
I do all those with my ski boots on

 

Like this?

Sorry, I don't know how to show the picture from a link.
post #51 of 63
The "squat" is a posterior chain exercise.
Hamstring/Glutes
The hip crease must go below the top of the knee to release the quads and activate the hams/glutes.
Also above parallell places shearing force on the knee,below releases them.The spot that they stopped at is possibly the worst,just a bit more and its all good.
post #52 of 63

Also after watching the video again,not to nit pick about squat form , but her knees looked a bit too far foreward,the bar seemed a bit to high on her neck,her thumbs should be behind the bar,and the whole mvm't should be initiated with her butt going back and down.
Other than that it looks good.

post #53 of 63


Then 1/4 and 1/2 sqats work the quads differently. That's why we used to do them for ski racing. However, it put a tremendous load on your lower back, as you needed another couple plates+  for a 1/4 squat than you used on a regular squat.
You guys got any good sources on info on squats? There's a lot of conflicting information on them. I don't do them any more, too hard on my back and knees. Squats are a great exercise, but they can also beat you up. Front squats and lunges seem to work better for me.
 
In loboskis picture he has too much weight on his left leg. His hips are shifted too far left and his toes point out too much. Also his right knee is rolled in too far but that may counteract the medial ligament loading from his toes being pointed too far out.

Probably more bad lifting form, but some of Ted Ligety's off season training. 
There's a nice combination of of stability ball and medicine ball exercise at 2:07 in video

 


 


Edited by NordtheBarbarian - 10/17/09 at 2:32am
post #54 of 63
www.stumptuous.com/category/training/exercise_instruction
there is a few good articles on squats here.
as well as a great quote from Mark Rippitoe.

 Ligety's training looks pretty good. wasn't a whole lot to go by lifting wise. The one time he goes overhead he stops short and dosen't fully open his shoulder.

As far as the picture ,yes my right leg is diving in .Attempting to squat in ski boots is not easy..
It forces you into positions that are less than optimal. Had to have them totaly unbuckled.
Toes are pointed out 30 degrees ,right where they should be.  
post #55 of 63

Lobo's got pretty darn good form considering he's got ski boots on.  Toes point out, knees track in that direction.  I say that the way it should be - almost mandatory to get below parallel.  Can't see his lumbar curve. but I bet it's there.  I know that squat, the one in the picture, would not be an easy one without correct form.
 

post #56 of 63
How much do those ski sleds weigh?
post #57 of 63
http://www.crossfit.com/cf-info/excercise.html#Exer 

Here's a pretty good look at the overhead squat.
post #58 of 63
Some pretty good stuff in here.  For those of us who already go to the gym and do squat variants, dead lift variants, clean and presses, snatches, bench presses, etc, does anyone have some links for agility based or plyometric exercises that relate to skiing?  I have done some searching and have not had good luck finding results. 

Thanks!
post #59 of 63
I would highly recommend kettlebell swings, which can be done with a dumbbell. Go to youtube to see the proper form so that you're locking out your hips to work your glutes, hams, thighs and hips (instead of your upper body, which is a guaranteed way to hurt yourself). The results for core strength and cardio will be impressive.
post #60 of 63
I have not done any training specific for skiing. I just adapt the training I did for mountain bike racing. The most effective training program I followed had one main point, that was to not train like a body builder. Muscle isolation does nothing for you as an athlete. Most of the exercises I did were dynamic body weight exercises. Any weight training used kettle balls or a barbell for a few variations of squats. It is also important how you train everyday you go to the gym. If you train the same reps only varying the weight week after week you will not gain much after the first couple weeks. You need to push your body but in a responsible way. You need to split your workouts in to phases. Having weeks you work very hard taking every exercise to failure. Then you need recovery weeks where you just take it easy still working out but allowing your body to repair and rebuild(stronger) your muscles. In between you have weeks of just progressing your body. To really prepare your body for something you need to look at about 12 weeks of training to prep yourself. Then once the season starts you change your workouts to take into account the actual activity.

What made the biggest difference in my race day performance? It was my warm up. I changed to a dynamic warm up that involved some goofy looking movements but the difference in how I performed was night and day. My body was more relaxed and just did what it needed to vs me really having to think about it.

Train with a purpose. If you go to the gym with no purpose you are wasting your time. Set goals for every workout. These goal do not need to be new heavier weights or more reps.

Recovery is very important and most often ignored. Not having enough recovery is what results in burnout.

Train the way you ski. If your ski runs typically last around a few minutes group exercises together to fill a couple minute time period, then rest before starting the next few minute exercise group. Group exercises together that work different parts of the body. Do a set of sit-ups then get up and run a flight of stairs up and down then do the next set of sit-ups, and repeat.

Edit: I was training for downhill mountain biking and dual slalom so strength training was a big part of it.
Edited by CR0SS - 10/17/09 at 2:04pm
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