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Cantable Boots...

post #1 of 31
Thread Starter 
What is everyones opinion on cantable boots? Which ones do you like? Are they made for smaller sizes for women?

post #2 of 31
I suppose cantable boots have merit. In my experience it is best to deal with the problem inside the boot if possible. Many people do have alignment problems necessitating boot or binding canting. Cantable boots are better than using binding cants.
post #3 of 31
The Dalbello SGS works, but may not be the right boot for you. I'm a bootfitter and alignment specialist in the evenings, after the mountain closes...

Would enjoy helping you out... and maybe we can find something in purple! lol!

Visit me here >>>SnoKarver

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[This message has been edited by SnoKarver (edited August 01, 2001).]</FONT>
post #4 of 31

I noticed that you are from Truckee, CA. One of the best bootfitters in the country is 15 mins. from you at Squaw Creek Lodge. Elite Feet is inside the ski shop on the lower level. Go there and ask all the questions you want they are excellent. Ask for Christian. He can handle footbeds, canting and all alignment problems.

Click Here http://www.tahoeelitefeet.com/


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[This message has been edited by Powdigger (edited August 01, 2001).]</FONT>
post #5 of 31
Thread Starter 
This question is posted both for myself and for others. I'm familiar with the Dalbello boot (a little) but was told it didn't work well for smaller feet, but women liked it more than men at the testing last year. Are there other cantable boots out there that people like and recommend?
Thanks for the comments so far.
post #6 of 31
I take it you need canting? How big is your quiver of skis? Since you teach and ski a lot, I presume you have more than one pair?

My cants are slightly different on my skinnier (65 mm or so) skis with lifters than my "fats" (75+), and it is better that way. I would love to be able to just jump on test skis, but I have strong alignment issues, personally...

Sorry, I confused you with someone else about the color purple... Tho do I like purple:

Visit me here >>>SnoKarver

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[This message has been edited by SnoKarver (edited August 01, 2001).]</FONT>
post #7 of 31
The Dalbello SGS do have a unique canting feature. They are heavier than most boots, but I think, Georgia, you must consider fit first. If the boot fails there, there are no amount of bells and whistles that can compensate for a less than excellent boot fit, so that must come first.

There are other ways to deal with alignment issues.
post #8 of 31
Thread Starter 
I just wrote a long response and lost it. Let's try this again....

SnoKarver, I am the purple person. Somewhere I addressed the coolest thing about my CTI brace. It's purple. The Vikings fan in me.

Where I used to work in CO for years we did both onhill and offhill assessments for canting and so forth. Pretty good system. More recently, I'm not finding that. Offhill instore only which I don't always agree with.

How many times do you think people need certain alignment corrections and they end up opposite? I think Warren witherell also discussed this. It would be nicer to see more onhill assessments with this.

With all of this in mind, I'm not liking the under the binding or shaving canting as much. I'd rather go with the tape. But if there is a boot out there, that would be ideal. Sounds easy, and easy is good. And for the number of skis I do have, it sounds even better that I can change it very quickly.

This is also a concern to me for my patients. Some of them are interested in cantable boots.

I heard the Dalbello were clunky which is a concern for me. Sounds as though I wouldn't be able to flex my ankles and they would put me in the back seat. No fun...

Any options????? Anyone?????
post #9 of 31
My impression is that the Dalbello is not going to lock your ankles in place or put you in the backseat. Instead, the canting mechanism just means that you are *really* high off your binding, plus it's heavy. Hence the "clunkiness."

An interesting alternative is to buy an Atomic with the removable toe & heel units, try to scrounge up some replacements, and play around with canting them. (This will be the equivalent of the Daleboot canting, which Salomon also licensed for awhile.) That way, unlike planing a regular boot, if you mess up you will not have ruined the boot.

If you want to experiment with tape on the bindings, try applying it only to the heel unit. That way you won't sacrifice safety, but you'll still get the canting effect, as the heel matters far more than the toe.

Also try visiting Bud at Snowwind Sports (in the Reno Hilton). He does an amazing job with boot sole planing. (Mine shells are still in excellent shape after 261 days!)
post #10 of 31
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the info.
I know there are good boot fitters in this community which is a good thing. The bad thing is that they are not at the area I work out of.
I need new boots this year and I may be at a huge loss. Boots cost one thing, new insoles more (even though I have a million pairs but everytime I have something done to a boot I hear "these are crap" you need new ones), canting procedure more, and so forth... (Plus I have to get new skis, bindings, and poles.) Not to be an instructor snob, but when you don't get any professional discounts on all of the alignment stuff, it really adds up. I'm not a Bay Area broker or computer guru who lives on investment interest.
I was just looking for an easier way to do things with the boots. I guess I'll read the upcoming buyers guide and go from there.
post #11 of 31
Vikings, eh? I grew up in Bloomington, MN.
Purple People Eaters!

The Dalbellos are not as much of a performance boot, and tend to be a bit wider... "high volume". Pretty comfy ski shoe for a lot of folks tho!

Good luck GeorgiaPT... good boots are a pain to find. BTW, what is your "mondo-point" size? Are you under a 23.0-23.5?

Find a pair that fit, mind the ramp angle (womens boots tend to be too high at the heel) and look for older discounted boots. Unfortunately, the "state of the art" for canting is still plates under the bindings OR grinding the boot soles.

I bought 3 pairs of my boots from a discounter, and stocked up. I have one fresh pair left for the next season or two. Paid $120.00 a pair. Thank goodness.

The Atomics look real interesting... Can we get around the patent right thing, please? Wish Daleboot didn't have that patent, I think it's stifled solutions for other boot companies. Soloman did that with the old rear loader SX92 Equipes. Intellectial property and design rights are very important, but...

Let us know what you find...

Visit me here &gt;&gt;&gt;SnoKarver
post #12 of 31
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the info.
By the way, Minnetonka,MN!!!!!
I do have the small foot 22.5-23.0 which is a nightmare. Wide forefoot, narrow heel, and low calf muscle. I'm short, it has to be there. Kids boots are out and womens boots aren't always tough enough for me.
I have to meet the guru boot fitter this weekend in the area for other things but we will discuss the boot issue also. I've always joked that I'm going to get a custom last out of Austria. Boot fitters frustrate me. It's not my fault I have difficult feet. But I can say I have phenomenal ankle movement and strength.

It's too bad that there is a patent on the boot. I thought I heard Jeannie Thoren say earlier this year other boots were coming out so now I'm bummed. The binding cant and shaving frustrate me because #1- they don't do on the hill assessments for the binding cants and #2- shaving didn't work with all the different skis I was on. I want boots!!!

post #13 of 31
Oh, a Minnetonka Mist partier, eh? Ha ha! A long ago ex-girlfriend was from Minnetonka, she and I both taught at a local area (Wild Mtn).

I have done the Daleboot and Strolz thing in years gone by. I have a wide, High arch, and pretty narrow heel. I quack like a duck! Well, no webbing between the toes, though. Sucks finding boots "off the rack".

Last years Head Cyber (ladies version) is available in a 22.0, this years is tooo ,but it seems to be a bit narrower and they added (NOOOO!) more ramp angle. Dolomites might work if they came in a smaller size.

If it gets really bad, see if you can find somebody "down under" because the Pacific Rim boot selections might work... I have friends who have had to resort to that...

Can you imagine a 20.0 foot an a strong lady who rips? Only 4'9" tall, she's on an older San Marco with weird colors. And a very healthy calf to "boot".

Visit me here >>>SnoKarver

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[This message has been edited by SnoKarver (edited August 03, 2001).]</FONT>
post #14 of 31
Thread Starter 
No, I partied at Lord Fletchers. Skied all of the local areas and taught at Hyland Hills. Remember that one Mr. Bloomington???
I'll keep all of information in mind for my difficult foot. The Pacific Rim thing sounds interesting. Haven't heard or joked about that option before. Otherwise, I'm going to Austria!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
post #15 of 31
Uh oh! Another purple person. I'm so bad that my helmet and googles are purple! BTW, I rode to the airport from the DCAC fitness conference with Suzanne Nottingham. She actually rememebers you from one of her workshops, and was commenting on how knowlegeable you are.

Be Braver in your body, or your luck will leave you. DH Lawrence
post #16 of 31
Hyland! You bet! My parents got "kiddie passes" for me and my sis, and dropped us off every weekend. I had a blast there....
My nephew learned to ski adaptive at Hyland, he has cerebal palsy. Truly one of those "little areas that rock", Hyland is quite "into" PMTS as well

Personally, I learned to ski at Buck Hill, in (gulp) 1968. I have always wondered what happened to my ski instructor, "Max". He was great. Worked our butts off, got me skiing (sloppy) wedelns my first year on skis. Of course, I practiced in my back yard all the time. I was a drooling IDIOT about skiing right away.

Remember Snowcrest? Stupid radio jingle "Come to Snowcrest, and have a good time". I really liked that place... Frontenac, Afton... wow, I skied all those places!

Be careful with those boots from Lech. It's a very "rotary dominant" design, as are the Daleboots. Try that Head boot! By rotary, I mean the hinge points of the boot promote the "A-Frame" thing, i.e., they dive to the inside. Yeeeeech! Oh well, Technicas do that too... Some boots can be modified to fix that, but still...

Lord Fletcher's eh? Hanging with the "big boat" crowd then, eh? Hee Heee. A (music) band I used to work sound and lights for played at the Mist a lot.. I did sound gigs around Minneapolis for years, as a "side job". Got paid in free beer, mostly...

Most of my boating was on the St. Croix... Wild Mountain connection, ya know! Was more into the pontoon boat "party barge" scene...

Visit me here >>>SnoKarver

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[This message has been edited by SnoKarver (edited August 06, 2001).]</FONT>
post #17 of 31
Georgia and Snowcarver: I think you two should get together and set up a workshop involving foot alignment and bootfitting. Sort of like what Jeannie Thoren does, only not just for women. You both certainly have enough knowledge!

Be Braver in your body, or your luck will leave you. DH Lawrence
post #18 of 31
Hee hee.. I find women easier to teach a lot of times, because they tend to ski for control not ego! I'll even tell them that in classes, out of earshot of the "boys"

Ohhh, I'm gonna get it for that one! Sometimes I think it would be nice to do womens clinics. But guys are not usually "invited". Oh well.

BTW, I think the changes with womens sports in the 70's and the money involved in schools has really made a differance!

Thank goodness. Women can be great athletes and sports people, if they want to. It's nice that society is giving everyone more choices...

Visit me here &gt;&gt;&gt;SnoKarver
post #19 of 31
Yes it is quite nice. And for those of us who were not involved in sports as teenagers {cheerleading definitely does NOT count!} skiing provides the opportunity to experience grace and athleticsm simultaneously. And the athleticsm of skiing is far less "butch" than other activities.

But women and their feet, MY GOODNESS! Even fitness professionals like myself who should know better have spent a significant portion of our "single days" wearing high heel shoes that hardly promote foot health.

And for those of us in the aerobics world, Juan Carlos Santana has made the interesting observation that as fitness shoes have become more high tech, ironically, the amount of ACL injuries have increased!

His theory: the technology of the shoe has alienated us from the proprioception in our feet.

So needless to say, the expertise that both of you have, combined, would be a great value to the skiing population.

Be Braver in your body, or your luck will leave you. DH Lawrence
post #20 of 31
Thread Starter 
I'm back. I've been kicked off line twice losing 2 messages this time, so if this doesn't work, I'm going to bed!!!!
Buck Hill. First place I ever skied (gulp) not in 1968. Add a few years to that. Good times. Skied at most of the other areas to. Taught at Hyland for the convenience. They brought in Mel Brown last year so in came PMTS. I like the idea, but prefer the focus of Beginner Magic out of Aspen.
The boot thing. Temporarily solved. Met with a boot fitter over the weekend. We're going to go with the Atomic. I ski on Atomic so I don't mind. Let's all cross our fingers.
LisaMarie, How was the conference? Anything good? How is Suzanne?
Did I address everything I was supposed to?
SnoCarver, I'll be in Mpls in 2 weeks for a reunion. May have to have lunch and a drink at Fletchers. Thought of you. I would put one of those little yellow smiley faces in but don't know how to make one.
This subject is probably done so I'll close this topic out shortly.
post #21 of 31
smiles are done almost like you did except no - and it will turn into a yellow smiley.
http://www.epic-ski.com/ubb/faq.html for the rest of the smileys avail.
Also we don't have the "authority" to close topics. Just AC or moderator have that ability. (by the way, have you met AC yet? He's up your way)
post #22 of 31

Well neat, I have not been to Mpls since my nephew graduated from the same darn HS I went to - Jefferson! He even had some of the same teachers I did. Which Mpls could be plunked down near the mountains somewhere.

I really miss the "MinniApple" and St. Paul music scene a lot, tho we have red rocks here. Blues Saloon in St. Paul @ Thomas & Western is a favorite place of mine... my sis was a waitress there for a while. I used to bartend at Uncle Sams, then it became First Avenue...

The Atomics are excellent boots, and I want to hear about any canting solutions you have... click on my linked nickname below to send me a message, or start a new thread...

I would ski on those Atomics, but the boot narrows up to fast about midfoot, and it hurts my (Quack Quack) duck feet! Would rather find a shoe that does not need to be blown out, even though I'm pretty good at stretching plastic.


Visit me here &gt;&gt;&gt;SnoKarver
post #23 of 31
Georgia, the conference was UNBELIEVABLE!! Outdid IDEA by a longshot in terms of value and content. Suzanne is well, but quite busy.
Hope you don't mind that I tried to map out a career path for you while you were away!

Canfitpro is next week!

Be Braver in your body, or your luck will leave you. DH Lawrence

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[This message has been edited by Lisamarie (edited August 07, 2001).]</FONT>
post #24 of 31
Thread Starter 
Did it work?
Sorry, didn't know about closing out topics. Thanks. No, I don't know who that person is yet.
LisaMarie, feel free to start a nice career path for me. Make sure I make lots of money so I can ski more. Trips to Chamonix don't sound bad.
Snocarver, I'll let you know about the boots. When does the buyers guide come out?
post #25 of 31
the smiley worked.
AC is in the Tahoe. I'm sure he would love to get together with you for a drink or dinner. send him an email. info@epicski.com or just go to the bottom of any forum and click on the contact us field.
post #26 of 31
The Daleboot patent on the cantable boot toes and heels has expired.
post #27 of 31
Interesting crudmeister. Very Interesting!

Visit me here &gt;&gt;&gt;SnoKarver
post #28 of 31
re Daleboot patent expiring

Is that the reason the Atomic boots now have the separate heel and toe pieces?

Are there any new boots being introduced this season with the same feature?

Tom / PM
post #29 of 31
actually Salomon had these in the sx91 and 92 series and then dropped them (maybe due to daleboot patent?)
I thoought they were great but someone else told me it might be due to extra flex being a problem on the higher end boots.
post #30 of 31
According to my friend who at one time had invested in Daleboot, Solomon licensed the toe and heel patent. As to why they dropped them I don't know. My WAG is that there is little interesting in canting, even though it has been talked about for thirty years, and replaceable toes and heels allow the boots to last longer, so the manufacturers won't sell as many.
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