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Keeping boot Stretches from coming back

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 
Hi Jeff,

I'm new to this forum and am grateful to have someone like you contribute to the knowledge here.

I'm 54, 240lbs, ex racer and still ski gates 3 days a week.  I have very very wide feet.  I'm in a Lange HP fit.  I have ground the boots and stretched them but the stretches return or pop back after I put the boots in one of those heated bags.

A couple of questions please:

1, Is there any procedure to make sure the stretches stay...i.e.  freeze the boot?

2, What do you think of Stroltz....I have such large bone spurs that I need to do something drastic to get a fit?

3, I have always skied on Langes...do you think there is a better choice for 5E wide feet that won't compromise performance

If I could just get the boot stretches to stay I would probably be OK

Thanks so much
Morty
post #2 of 15
Most of us agree that if the stretch keeps coming back, the boot was not heated enough for the stretch to stay. How is the boot in question being heated?
post #3 of 15
if the punches are not that large (1-3mm) a grind will not come back.

also most punches will come back a bit over time (bigger guy, and warmer temps will not help that)

Stroltz:   some great results, but very similar to what a good boot fitter can do anyways.  If you have one nearby, on on a trip great, stop by, but better is someone local to you.

Better boot:  try stuff on, with a local boot fitter and see what fits YOU well.   always hard with a wide forefoot and a need for a tight heel.   Most companies make a boot like the lange HP  (nordica pro shape, salomon impact or falcon, etc)
post #4 of 15
mortyski,

where are you located, perhaps we could recommend a good fitter near you.

jim
post #5 of 15
Thread Starter 
 Thanks everyone for all the replies.

The boots are being heated with a heat gun.  it seems like this version of Lange is terrible for holding punches way worse than other years of Langes.  The plastic is pretty hot before I try to punch out the boot.  I try to cool them under cold water and they seem to go back over night...faster if I use a heated bag!

I'm in Calgary, Alberta

Do you know if any brands (ie Nordica) hold their shape after heating better?

thanks
Morty
Edited by mortyski - 9/29/09 at 9:58pm
post #6 of 15
Speaking as a tinkerer, not a bootfitter -- it seems that grinding the outside of the punched area might relieve some of the tension that makes it creep back to its original shape.  Along the same idea, scoring (cutting) part way through from the outside might do the same thing.  If you are going to have to give up on the boots anyway, might be worth a try.
post #7 of 15
i hav enot come across one year of lange not holding a stretch as well as others, you need to get that shell hot all the way through, this means long slow heating rather than blasting the shell until it is nearly torched, the Hot gear bag shouldn't causes asteretch to come back if it was done properly in the first place

as for other boots being right... as you know internet fitting is not a great idea, so i will leave that one to your fitter of choice
post #8 of 15
mdf,

Quote from mdf::
Speaking as a tinkerer, not a bootfitter -- it seems that grinding the outside of the punched area might relieve some of the tension that makes it creep back to its original shape.  Along the same idea, scoring (cutting) part way through from the outside might do the same thing.  If you are going to have to give up on the boots anyway, might be worth a try.
as a tinkerer, not a bootfitter you show very good thinking outside the box. however if you grind or score PU plastics and then apply heat and force the result will be costly.

for the OP, CEM hit the nail on the head. the solution to a receding punch is thorough heating. it takes patience and an accurate temp gauge to get the shell hot enough to make a permenant shell shape change. if your lange is a high end polyurethane or polyether shell, it needs to be over 275 degrees on the inside of the shell before the punch will hold

do not score, grind, spindle, or mutilate!!!!!

jim
Edited by starthaus - 9/30/09 at 2:51pm
post #9 of 15
lou is in calgary, and I'm in banff.

also donny at top shelf in fernie does good work.

why not come see someone?
post #10 of 15
Thread Starter 
Thanks Again Guys,

Hi Jim

How do you measure the temp on the inside of the boot?

Do you use a heat gun for heating the boot or a solution bath?

Do you leave the boot in the press over night or shock cool it?

all the best,
Morty
post #11 of 15
I clamp the boot in a boot vice and open the shell up a little bit when I heat. I use an infrared temp gun to shoot the inside for temp. If I am in a hurry I will shock cool the boot in a snow bank (if we have snow) or run it under cool water. Otherwise I I just let it sit on the stretcher, it only needs to cool down to room temp. which is only a few hours at most.
post #12 of 15
mortyski,

there are classes like masterfit university that you can attend to learn all about the proper techniques for boot fitting. also up in your neck of the woods there are guys like lou and mtlion that hire and train for bootfitting.

1. temple stick for 280 degrees, or digital thermometer.

2. what kind of solution? like lava or something? water boils at 212 f. at sea level. based on previous temp answer, do you think that will work?

3.if heated properly, it does not matter how you cool a boot.

with the exception of an ankle punch that goes through lower and cuff, you do not have to heat the boot from the inside. you can simply heat the outside very slowly and carefully with your hand on the inside where you're applying heat. when the outside temp stays above 270 f for more than 30 seconds after you stop heating, and you burn the piss out of the hand on the inside, the boot is hot enough for the stretch to stick.

jim
post #13 of 15
Thread Starter 
 Hi Jim,

Thanks for the reply.  I don't know what kind of solution the one ski shop was touting but I thought it was a water bath.  I now understand 275 is the magic temp.

I got all the boot stretching equipment from a ski shop going out of business and have dabbled with my personal boots and family boots for 25 years

I know Lou...who is the other mt lion I'm not familiar with them.

Does masterfit university offer a correspondence course as I would like to learn more about this...just to keep my feet with bone spurs from hurting.

One further questions on alignment do you align the centre of mass of the knee slightly to the inside or on the boot seam.

all the best
Morty
post #14 of 15
does anyone agree with me that there is a substantial difference between a punch and a stretch?  is everyone familiar with the punch whereby the technician heats the boot and clamps it in a beet press and leaves it to cool?  this is a punch and will almost always return to the shape imparted by the mold - called mold memory in plastics parlance.  how about the tech that heats the boot and agressivly "works" the plastic, often stretching it to a much greater shape than is desired and you are releived when it goes back to slightly bigger than before.  this tech has modfied the mold memory and it will not come back - ever!
post #15 of 15
IMO a punch is a micro adjustment (think ankle bone punch, bunion punch) and a stretch is more a macro adjustment (ie stretching the forefoot for overall width). Others might not agree or maybe I am wrong, but that is just how the two terms play in my head. IMO the goal is for the punch/stretch to stay and not come back. Bootfitters have done this in the past by heating the boot hot enough for the plastic to take on new memory.
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