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PSIA Bashing, Wedge Turns, HH and the GP

post #1 of 36
Thread Starter 
Greetings All,
This is my first post on this forum, although I have been 'lurking' for a while. I just had to give my 2 cents worth on this subject. I have taught skiing every winter for the last 14 years and been a member of PSIA for 12. In all that time, I have never had a student ask me about PSIA or what kind of training I have had or what is that badge on your coat all about? Interesting.....
On the other hand, I do have people ( because I ask ) tell me what they want to learn about skiing. I have had beginners tell me that they don't want to "snowplow". Fine with me, I can give them what they want and we have a good time. So this debate about the wedge seems a bit silly to me, it's kind of like arguing about which tool to use.
We had heated debates at our ski school some time back about 'upper body rotation'. I don't think we should 'teach' this movement, but if a beginner 'discovers' it, should I jump all over him and try to correct it? Plenty of students also 'discover' that they can slow the skis and stop themselves by pushing the skis apart in a wedge. So if you are out there spying on us, HH, you may spot some 'tail pushers' in our beginner classes.I also do not 'teach' beginners to ski black diamond slopes their first day on skis. But damned if I don't spot a few up on the mountain later that day. Go figure. So instructors can do their best to teach efficient movement patterns and people can still screw it up. If you don't believe it, just go for a drive on the freeway sometime. Didn't those people have to pass an exam to get their licenses? All you PSIA bashers out there, get in the trenches and try showing ten overweight middle aged people how to ski in two hours. If you can't do it, don't critize those of us out there trying. I know there are some first year instructors out there that just do it for the ski pass, but they don't last. The vast majority of ski instructors out there are dedicated professionals who are under paid and definitely under appreciated. So why do it? Because we love the sport and we love sharing it with others. Period.
As for PSIA, all I can say is: They are on the cutting edge of new ski techniques and always have been. Any instuctor who has taken all three certification exams can tell you that not only is is it extremely challenging both mentally and physically, it is also extremely exciting. Bob Barnes, I have read and reread your book so many times, the cover is falling off. Defininetly not boring stuff. PSIA should be credited for introducing shaped skis to beginners and teaching skiers the advantages of using the new equipment. Last winter, I had many students trade in their old 'straight' skis for shorter shapes and what a difference it made ! Anyone out there that says PSIA is behind the times and only teaches "wedging" is just plain ignorant. One thing I would like to see PSIA improve on is promotion of their 'product'- Ski Instructors! The GP ( general public )should be better informed about our training and expertise so they ask for a PSIA certified instructor when they take a lesson. Maybe then the resorts we work for would adopt a new atitude towards us.( Another subject...) So all you PSIA bashers out there, give us a break! HH has nothing new, he's just trying to get attention and it's negative to the whole sport of skiing ! Arrogance has been descibed as not thinking too much of yourself, but thinking too little of others......
post #2 of 36
Nice Post Snowdancer - and welcome!

Hey, my nickname back at my old mountain was "Mountain Dancer", funny eh?

Bob's book is actually the only Encyclopedia that is actually readable cover to cover without knocking me into unconciousness!

~Todd M.
post #3 of 36

Welcome!! We have a run at my ski area named Snowdancer! (Just a who-cares fact-of-the-day).

A big ol' YUP to every comment in your post. Regarding the last few ideas in your post, check out what I just posted on the other tread in this topic. It fits right in to what you were saying about educating the customer.

Good to have you here and helping us chew up AC's bandwidth. The amount of combined skiing knowledge we have on this site is phenominal!!
post #4 of 36
Welcome SnowDancer.
Great opening post.
Now just point me down the hill and tell me how to fix......
post #5 of 36
Ahh, Jeez! Gag me with a PSIA pin!

You guys and PrivateDancer all need to get together for a group hug

Murchison will throw in that he's some kinda Bruce Lee - "Hi Ya"!<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by SCSA (edited July 06, 2001).]</FONT>
post #6 of 36
Welcome Snowdancer...that is how we all break our anonymity...from lurking and reading, to "oh I gotta get in on this!"
Worked in Purg. 83-84, great mtn. and school.

By the by, PSIA's forum has a post where JP was asking people to identify themselves and share what would revive activity. So far it has elicited about 10 responses. It would be interesting to ascertain how many "active/current" pros are "lurking" here, and at JR's Hyperchange?
post #7 of 36
SCSA, it's a regular love fest, isn't it? Kinda like we're having a big ol' picnic over here, and you're a dog chained to a tree 50 feet away barking up a storm 'cause you want a hot dog too.

post #8 of 36
"Mrs. Green, bend over and bark like a dog"

I got serious motor home envy.

Oops. Is LisaMarie around? I gotta watch it. else; right back in the shi@@er.

This is killing me!
post #9 of 36
Thread Starter 
Gee...You like me....you really ....Hey! !Thanks for the warm welcome, everybody ( well, almost everybody )One point I forgot to make in my earlier post was this: Nobody at my area is required to become a member of PSIA and none of our training clinics push people towards PSIA certification.It is not a private club that you have to become a member of to teach skiing. I am also aquainted with several instructors at Telluride ( HH's mountain) who are certified in both schools. They continue with their memberships in PSIA because they see value in the CONTINUING EDUCATION offered. So Mr.SCSA- It is not about which club you are a member of- It's about how much knowledge you can share with your students, and how much they can share with you. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
post #10 of 36
Heard this quote some where thought it was fitting!

If you are not criticized, you may not be doing much.

Kinda works for me. todo
post #11 of 36

Let me add my hearty attaboy!
post #12 of 36
Hey Rusty,

How's the training going? Last time I saw you, it looked like you were doing a few too many elbow curl's
post #13 of 36
Welcome Snowdancer. BTW, HH's mountain is Berthoud, Loveland and SolVista.

Now that everyone has had a shot at Harald, let's cool it for awhile until some newbie comes on and starts trashing PSIA. If we want to talk about ATS or PMTS, let's do. But let's leave the personalities out of it. It's getting redundant.

post #14 of 36
Hiya snowdancer... really like your "handle". Welcome out of the shadows... Lamont Cranston!

Purgatory is a neat place, been there only once. Was a big fat powder day, couldn't see a thing. I keep stopping at Wolf Creek...

I am one of those folks who is in the PSIA and PMTS world. I enjoy and learn from both camps. I am an unabashed pal of SCSA's too, even when he gets after me for "sitting on the fence".

Check those premises! I don't sit on any fence, I teach skiing to skiers... whatever can be done so my folks learn well, and have one of the best times they have ever had... Is that fence sitting?

Maybe those of us who are are PSIA members should show some activity on those boards. I find JR's board to be pretty interesting, but the PSIA board has been almost as much of a snoozer as SAMinfo.... LOL.


¯¯¯/__ SnoKarver
<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by SnoKarver (edited July 06, 2001).]</FONT>
post #15 of 36
I need to retract my statement about Snokarver being on the fence. I was dillusional - like that's a surprise to anyone here!

Hey, at least I'm not in the middle of all this, eh?

I agree about all the PMTSing and Gang bashing.

There's one thing though. Everyone here is all about Gang speak - "Well, Mike SoandSo, who's a gang leader in Tuscaloosa and who's buddy MarySnazzyPants (LisaMarie, easy...) is a gang examiner in PleasantVille..." You gang members and leaders need to give some love to us cult members - all 3 of us

I don't know, I think it's kinda cool that gang members and leaders don't follow the cult. That means that we have this nice little secret. And, that we don't have to remember near as many names, which is really tough for guys like me, who's brakes seem to inexplicably fail whenever I drive by a head shop.

Finally, being a member of the cult reminds me of wearing good underwear. I'm the only one who know's I have it on, but it sure does feel good.

So us cult members, all 3 of us, will just go off and tilt our beers and whatever else to the little toe side.
<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by SCSA (edited July 06, 2001).]</FONT>
post #16 of 36
Welkommne, Snow dancer-great first post.

Rick H- Ditto re: your above post.

Lito: when will the "new" book be out ? It could solve some issues or be "new" grist for the mill.

Cetainly worthy of future and I would imagine some very in depth discussions.

Das ist alles .
post #17 of 36

Nice, clear post. Your grounded reality is refreshing

At first it's constrictive...then it becomes a part of you!
Cult members are best known for their habit of getting taken.

When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro...
post #18 of 36
Welcome Snowdancer, I'm the Old Guy in this forum, so old that I remember about 30 years ago or more, a friend of mine went to Purgatory to become the ski school director there, you may have heard of him, his name is Fritz Tatzer (Robin?).

post #19 of 36

I used to protect all the secrets of Wolf Creek, but since I left because of inept new ownership. I'm happy to give out all the secrets. Not just secret runs - but the juice secrets behind that scenes that will let you scam anything you want for free! Hell, I still think I've got the keys to the whole place . . . if you want to fire up the place at night. Well on second thought they can afford better lawyers, so maybe I better not do that! <g>.

~Todd M.
post #20 of 36

As usual you have a way of annoying folks. I don't have much in my life that I'm proud of. I have a healthy eight year old daughter and a roof over my head. I'm a recovering alcoholic and have not had a drink in nine years. Every day is still a battle, SO NO I HAVE NOT DONE ANY ELBOW CURLS!!!!!

I have lost eight pounds and have fifteen more to go. I may not be a sucessful entrepreneur as you have billed yourself nor may I have your wealth which you have told us about ad nauseum, however, I have not had a drink.

I'll try to make sure the next time we ski that I fit the physical mold that you seek for PSIA members.
post #21 of 36
Rusty Guy -Good on ya, mate.
post #22 of 36

The fight now is easier than the one eight years ago?

Wacko still has to live in that insecure shell of his.

If I hadda trade places, it would be with you and that's a "no-brainer"!
post #23 of 36
Ditto, good on ye, Rusty...I am a friend of Bills too.
Ott, of course I knew Fritz Tatzer...of the Stratton Mountain Boyz! One hell of a skier! I lived in the upstairs of the Columbine Station house with my German Shepard while Fritz own the Best Western next door. He bought instructors who brought their classes over lunch, and at night, my dog and I would go over for a shnapps, wiesen bier or something...Fritz loved that dog.
It was a gas going out and skiing with Fritz, and Rudi Bear as well (he had his tennis ranch there at the time)
post #24 of 36
Hey Rusty,

Sorry man, I was just goofin ya. I got my struggles and problems too.

Here's to the heroes, people like you.

Well, now I know what not to buy you
So you doing any training?<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by SCSA (edited July 07, 2001).]</FONT>
post #25 of 36
Snowdancer, even though I'm at a fitness conference and paying by the minute for computer time, I need to say welcome, and thanks for a great post!

Be Braver in your body, or your luck will leave you. DH Lawrence
post #26 of 36
Neat Todd.

I (once) got the chance with a bunch of partying lifties to ski (and ride) in the middle of the night. This was just after a storm cleared, at about ummmm midnight.

Went up on snowmobiles, and turned the lifts on on an upper moutain lift. Full moon, night Comet Hale Bopp was high in the sky. Skied from about 1am to 4am. It was dangerous, but magical and absolutely beautiful.

We should swap stories sometime about the looters and immoral behavior of managers at ski areas. I left Copper (no, NOT the ski department) for those reasons. I had a job as a network administrator there for 2.5 years. It really HURT to leave a "dream job" because of the mangement and it's antics in a department.

You still like to ski at Wolf, dontcha?

I skied 4th of July Bowl in Breckenridge again today. Better than Sunday, but there is only about 800' vert left. Of about 1500'+.

That's two days in July.


post #27 of 36

I appreciate your apology. I had not had the best of days and was thinking how much a drink would help when I read your message.

I will have shed 24 lbs by ski season and yes I was fat. I need to lay off the ski resort food during the winter. Too much burger/fry/pizza diet!
post #28 of 36

You're killing me! If I had my boots, I'd be with ya.


I consider myself wealthy because I know fine people like you.

Hey man, that's so great! So what are you doing? Riding? Running? Man oh man, you'll be awesome (more) by November. How's the golf swing? Keep it up, my man.

Looking forward to seeing you. Until then, and after then, stay after it!
post #29 of 36
Thanks for the reminder and strength to post that part of your life. I am a wine drinker and often need to be reminded to be careful not to abuse it. I have a great deal of respect for those who got caught up in the "addiction" and had the strength to dig themselves out and get back on track. Be well and take care..
post #30 of 36

When the urge hits......... BUY GEAR!

Look at what you can get away with buying now! When you need that excuse to walk in with something you were gonna get anyway....

Feel a little bit guilty but remember... you owe it to yourself to be nice to you.
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