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Balance: What is it? - Page 3

post #61 of 87
What's the work of skiing that you want the forces to assist with? Edging, steering, pressing. What's the result? Balance and movement. What's the purpose? Going where you want. It's not linear. It's a self-reinforcing loop. That's what people mean when they use the term automaticity. It just happens without your concern.

One of you guys said it--maybe Rusty, recalling something BobB had said--about active flexing and extending movements. You don't have to produce those movements solely on your own if the ground and gravity forces do it for you.
post #62 of 87
Yeah, I've heard you say that before Nolo. Now define smart for me. As an employer I always wanted a good blend of traits to get apropriate responses to situations. Waht good does smart and lazy do if you if they don't show up? Whats wrong with smart and engaged? Many times, the easiest way isn't the most appropiate response. especialy when you move it into the future.

So I take it this is your description to your students?
post #63 of 87
Quote:
Originally posted by nolo:
Ric,

I had a boss once who said there are four types of people separated by these qualities: ambitious, lazy, stupid, and smart. People who are lazy and stupid need direction. People who are ambitious and stupid are dangerous and should be avoided like the plague. People who are smart and ambitious are good to have on your team. But the people who are smart and lazy are the best of all, because they will find the easiest way to get the work done.

This is a little off topic, but my opinion is that only insecure bosses prefer smart, lazy employees to smart, ambitious employees. And insecure bosses are another group that should be avoided at all costs.

Maybe we need a management forum.

John

[ December 10, 2002, 07:51 AM: Message edited by: John Dowling ]
post #64 of 87
Odysseus was smart and lazy. Achilles was stupid amd ambitious. It's an archetype, a common notion.

Smart = Wily. Devious. Crafty. Strategic.

Lazy = Never do more than is strictly necessary.

Smart and lazy people can perform miracles because there's no wasted effort.

And yes, I do tell students this. They find it a very attractive proposition to learn how to be smarter and lazier.
post #65 of 87
Nolo, I am with you on this. I have always been lazy. “Less work and more fun” has been a central theme in my skiing and teaching for years. I also tell my students this. To date no one has asked for more work.
Ric B; I always show up for work, don’t mistake laziness for irresponsibility.
post #66 of 87
Well Hill&dale, I guess I wouldn't have had a problem with you showing up would I? Laziness was never a trait I sought in my employees. I guess it really is determined by what laziness means to you.

Webster's version: averse or disinclined to work, causing idleness, slow moving sluggish, inert, inactive, and slothfull. The opposite of industrious and quick.

This is all a little to tidy for me. [img]graemlins/evilgrin.gif[/img]

[ December 10, 2002, 09:27 AM: Message edited by: Ric B ]
post #67 of 87
Nolo, I feel smarter already. Now to work on the lazy.

Maybe a common notion, in some places, but out where the rubber meets the road it's not well thought of. Maybe laziness is a prime motivator for some, but most people feel that miracles don't happen, they're earned. Maybe I'm too blue collar to get behind this. And that suits me just fine. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]
post #68 of 87
Come to think of it, the main critisimn coming from my prep clinic video analasis last year was not enough Huuuaaaahhh! Maybe he was politely saying I was lazy Eh? Didn't ask him to define huah. More would have seemed contrived, and less wouldn't have worked as well. Can anyone say appropriate? Or is it that these common notions rule our perceptions to the point that appropriateness is lost? Just some thoughts.
post #69 of 87
No wasted effort sounds like clean skiing to me, Ric. Old trout don't jump and they sure don't go Huaahhh.
post #70 of 87
Quote:
Originally posted by Ric B:
So now I'm going to ask a question we might hear from our students. "As I get better at skiing, will I still feel like I'm going between losing my balance and getting it back with every turn?". How would everyone answer this?
Answer from perspective of student who used to always be wimpering that she was "falling". (hence my instrcutors description that skiing is controlled falling)

YES & NO I no longer feel I am losing balance with turns - but the 'sensations' of weight changes in feet & ear that I took as saying I'm off balance still occur. Now I am skiing so that I am actively prepared for what is happening - instead of madly trying to compensate. I am CONTROLLING how I feel them.
Also the sensations feel more 'normal'

Which sort of leads to one of the other comments I was given at the same stage as the 'controlled falling'.
"You are VERY poor at being REACTIVE - so we are going to have to teach you to be PROACTIVE"
I thought the poor puppy was sick in the head at the time - but now I can see where we have gone with that
post #71 of 87
So Disski, would it be acurate to say your movements are creating balancing instead of your movements trying to regain balancing? I think your instructor was right on with where he/she took you.

Yes Disski, skiing is still for everyone. It doesn't matter what you bring to the table, if you can get to the table, and are willing to try, it will happen for you. It's not a miracle, it takes an effort. But it's doable for all four of the archetypes, and even the rest of us too. Sorry Nolo, couldn't resist.

Nolo, I admit to being stupid, don't claim to be smart, try not to be lazy, old is a word I'm gettng used to, and huah, well I don't know if I ever had that. He meant well. [img]smile.gif[/img]
post #72 of 87
Ric B "Webster's version: averse or disinclined to work, causing idleness, slow moving sluggish, inert, inactive, and slothfull. The opposite of industrious and quick" .

“averse or disinclined to work”. Left a good paying profession to teach skiing: Guilty as charged
“slow moving sluggish” didn’t get on the skiis until 1:30, skipped the 8:00 training. Guilty again
“inert, inactive” How I feel now!
“Slothfull” Did you ever see a nature show about the sloth. It is one amazing animal. Is the sloth lazy? no just bad press.

Ok Maybe the word lazy is a bit too strong.Can I plea bargain to “averse or disinclined to unnecessary work” :
post #73 of 87
Quote:
Originally posted by Ric B:
So Disski, would it be acurate to say your movements are creating balancing instead of your movements trying to regain balancing? I think your instructor was right on with where he/she took you.

[img]smile.gif[/img]
Yep & also a bit of 'strategy' to avoid being knocked around so much. I am still a wimp - so I have 'wimp' strategies I employ so that I am comfortable with where I am & where I am going to be. It is easier on me than being scared & then off balance when I try to 'save' myself in some bizarre fashion.
post #74 of 87
Hill&Dale "Ok Maybe the word lazy is a bit too strong.Can I plea bargain to “averse or disinclined to unnecessary work”

In the construction biz, we called it "working smarter, not harder". The fact is, in construction working harder, without being smart about it, is down right dangerous. Always made us "old trout" nervous.

Disski, a wimp? Somehow that doesn't compute for me. At least not from the posts I've read of yours. [img]smile.gif[/img]
post #75 of 87
I was working construction once in Colo. and we had to move something really big to the back of the house. Well, we didn't want to carry it all the way around through the snow and struggle with it. We rigged up some way to get it down the stairs through the front. Person I was working with said:

"Laziness is the mother of invention."

Hand cranking the engine to start a car was to much work so so we got...electric starters.
In skiing, old straight skis were too much work and effort. So now we have shapes. What was one of the biggest "criticisms" when they first came out? People called them "cheater skis" implying if you're lazy or don't really know what you're doing, you'll use those.
Quote:
As I get better at skiing, will I still feel like I'm going between losing my balance and getting it back with every turn?" Ric B
I suppose we could answer by saying when you learned to walk down stairs you eventually got used to the feeling of falling with each step. There you're constantly falling while balancing on one foot. Recovering from leg injuries where you have to learn again how to walk down stairs requires you to get used to that fear again. Because you've done it before you know it's possible and easy but it's still hard to get used to trusting that one foot/leg holding you up before touching down on the other.

Quote:
I watched my daughter ski [those tough conditions] easily, as if it were groomed. She told me she felt like she couldn't ski at all any more. I think all good skiers have had the experience of being complemented on their skiing, when they felt as if they were not skiing well at all.
-John Dowling
I think this points out one of the most common misperceptions novice or intermediate skiers have of advanced ones. They think "expert" skiers make every turn perfectly if it looks good. In reality the skier may be out of balance for most of them or have some sort of problem they are constantly adjusting for or correcting. The person who's skiing may feel like only one in 5 turns are really good ones. If they're out of balance for one turn they try to correct for the next. The advanced skier gets used to making corrections on the fly whereas the novice often gets frustrated and says they can't ski because they're not making a "perfect turn". A well trained eye will be able to see the problems in an advanced skier but a novice won't.

[ December 11, 2002, 09:39 AM: Message edited by: Tog ]
post #76 of 87
Some of the Okemo instructors have commented tha Mikhaila {sp?} Egan says the same thing. She hates the term "Perfect Turn", because she believes even experts make very few turns that can be considered perfect.

I think that over achieving self critical intermediates, especially those who have had balance issues in the past, often tend to block their own sense of flow and continuity by evaluating, and getting angry at themselves, for each turn that they do not consider "perfect".
post #77 of 87
Some of the Okemo instructors have commented tha Mikhaila {sp?} Egan says the same thing. She hates the term "Perfect Turn", because she believes even experts make very few turns that can be considered perfect.

I think that over achieving self critical intermediates, especially those who have had balance issues in the past, often tend to block their own sense of flow and continuity by evaluating, and getting angry at themselves, for each turn that they do not consider "perfect".
post #78 of 87
Quote:
Originally posted by Ric B:
Disski, a wimp? Somehow that doesn't compute for me. At least not from the posts I've read of yours. [img]smile.gif[/img]
Ric - biggest wimp you have ever seen. I am KNOWN for screaming my way down hills. I have even managed to scream a snowboarder over when he got too close. I let rip with a full on scream & he got such a fright he started waving arms around & fell.

My instructor reckons he didn't push me hard enough this last season - because I didn't scream as much.

Once upon a time every ripple in the snow was enough for a whimper or scream. One instructor reckons if I was quiet he thought I'd dissappeared. It was always possible to track my progress down hill by the types of wimpers/screams as I hit the various terrain variations.

If you think about it though - having very little natural balance/co-ordination I FELT pretty precarious on those big slippery feet. Thats MY excuse anyway. [img]smile.gif[/img]
post #79 of 87
Quote:
Originally posted by Tog:
I think this points out one of the most common misperceptions novice or intermediate skiers have of advanced ones. They think "expert" skiers make every turn perfectly if it looks good. In reality the skier may be out of balance for most of them or have some sort of problem they are constantly adjusting for or correcting. The person who's skiing may feel like only one in 5 turns are really good ones. If they're out of balance for one turn they try to correct for the next. The advanced skier gets used to making corrections on the fly whereas the novice often gets frustrated and says they can't ski because they're not making a "perfect turn". A well trained eye will be able to see the problems in an advanced skier but a novice won't.
Yeah - know that feeling too well. Spent one lesson at end of season skiingthe cruddy off-piste stuff to the sides of one run. Instructor had me figure-eighting his tracks
At the start of one lap some guy comes up & says - Oh YOUR the ones drawing those nice tracks over there. The thing is I felt all over the place - way out of control. When I looked back on the tracks with that guys perspective there were all these nice sets of figure8's running in parallel lines down the whole side of the hill.

My instructor is 'working on' this misperception atm - he will often give me a talk on how other people see my skiing - versus how I think it feels.
post #80 of 87
Quote:
Originally posted by Lisamarie:
Some of the Okemo instructors have commented tha Mikhaila {sp?} Egan says the same thing. She hates the term "Perfect Turn", because she believes even experts make very few turns that can be considered perfect.

I think that over achieving self critical intermediates, especially those who have had balance issues in the past, often tend to block their own sense of flow and continuity by evaluating, and getting angry at themselves, for each turn that they do not consider "perfect".
Yep LM - I have a tendency to want to stop & think about what went wrong in a turn that doesn't feel good. I am told on so many runs(nearly all) "Don't stop" that has had comments like "Don't care if you need to do snowplow turns - DON'T STOP"
The other no-no is traversing all over the place while skiing. Sure to get a yell from behind to 'keep moving'

Funnily enough those habits are fast dissappearing [img]redface.gif[/img]
post #81 of 87
You see Tog, this is what I don't get. Why do we call working smarter being lazy? Why would not wanting to struggle with something in the snow, wasting time, and possibly getting hurt in our struggle fit in any catagory called lazy? Why do we feel guilty about doing somethng the easy way? Why do we cheapen brain power by calling it being lazy? What are we trying to say about ourselves with these common notions? Are mental effort and physical effort in competition with each other? Or are they on the same team? If what you did is being lazy then count me lazy. That's not how I view it though. :

What, no perfect turns?
post #82 of 87
Ric,

Lazy doesn't work for sh*t without the smarts.
post #83 of 87
I like what Nolo says about being smart and lazy however, if I may, I would replace the word lazy with efficient. By being smarter about any task at hand I can hopefully preform that task more efficiently and become more effective, do more with less.

In skiing what I look for in my own skiing and those of my students is to see how efficient we can become. Call this lazy if you want but I don't want to work harder then I have to, work less ski more. Shape skis have helped bring this to a new level. It's very easy to see diffreence between skiers that are not working efficiently and those that are. Every movement should be to support the desired outcome, simplify, simplify, simplify.
post #84 of 87
Quote:
Originally posted by nolo:
Ric,

Lazy doesn't work for sh*t without the smarts.
C'mon Nolo, dig a little deeper. Maybe lazy doesn't work at all. Maybe it's something else? How do these common notions work when applied to our skiing? To "Dynamic" skiing. To the archetypycal dynamic skier? If we're skiing in relation to moving the beam through the basement, how is that viewed? Is that lazy skiing? To dynamic balance? To our movements eliminating struggle? [img]graemlins/evilgrin.gif[/img]
post #85 of 87
LM,
Putting our belief & trust in the PoWeR of our skis' *platform* ...using leverage and your skeleton to relaxingly balance with/against gravity....can allow you to commit to the fall-line with "offensive intent" while remaining relaxed.

Let brotha' Steve heal thee.....salvation!....
post #86 of 87
Ric, It's just an expression from a boss, honestly the only memorable words that ever issued from his miserable piehole.

Translation: Easy does it.
post #87 of 87
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