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Forward lean and hip position

post #1 of 8
Thread Starter 
I’m wondering about the relationship between forward lean and ankle flex.  What is the current thinking regarding how much is enough and are manufactures accomidating for this?   My recent experience has me looking for a boot that allows for a more upright position.   
For the last two seasons I’ve been on Lange World Cup 120s that have been highly altered. I started with heel lifts then started experimenting with softening the boots. I felt I still wasn’t getting enough flex out of the boot so my boot fitter tried a radical experiment. He straightened the upper cuff of the boot. It put my hips in a much more centered position and even seemed to help one of my knees stop from tracking in (can’t remember which one). It had a happy result, I passed the PSIA-E level III skiing exam.  

I really would like to find boots that don't requrie major sugery and give me frostbite (different story).
FYI - I’m a source of confusion for boot fitters since I’m 5’9” and I have a athletic (female, incase you're wondering) build (150lbs). They think I should be able to bend just about anything, but I don’t have much flexibility in my ankle. 
post #2 of 8
not having much flexibility in your ankle joint is a pretty good reason to start with a more upright boot and stiffer may be better as you will transfer pressure to the ski before you use up all the range of motion that you do have... as for what boot, without seeing your foot shape and the amount of flexion available it is difficult to say where to start..i would possibly avoid head raptor, salomon impact/idol/instinct/ falcon due to the high degree of forward lean, it may be one of these may work but as said difficult to say without a full assessment, best to get yourself to a really good fitter and go from there
post #3 of 8
Thread Starter 
In a sitting position I can't bend my ankle more than 90 deg.  even if my knee is bent.

If a lack of flexibility in the ankle joint calls for a sifter more upright boot why are so many manufactuers creating boots with lots of forward lean?  What is the tought process?  I also wonder if there is more forward lean in womens boots or is it relatively the same.
post #4 of 8
ok now i have tried 3 times to get the answer to post

manufacturers think that everyone will have adequate flexion to cope, most upper end  boots are derived from race where more forward lean = better position (yeh right)

there are a few more boots coming out that are a bit more upright and with cuffs that cna be flared by turning an ajustment on the boot, the main problem is that your lack of flexion is pretty extreme, whatever boot you go into you will need something doing to to get you in a workable position, just some boots will need less than others

there are very few actual womens boots out there, most are just fluffy liners and softer plastics on a unisex shell so in most cases the forward lean is the same as the mens version, occaisionally they will remove the spoiler and cut the height of the liner to account for a larger lower calf muscle.

from the way you describe your ankle flexion you better get to a geally good fitter, show them the problem and start working with them.... it should be possible to get you in something pretty good, the lange is pretty forward as well as the list i gave ealier, but in saying that i have taken a instinct/falcon, removed the cuff, cut material from the lower back edge, V cut the back of the clog, reassembled the boot then riveted the boot upright and finished off the interface by heating the clog and bending it back to match the cuff all within an hour, that combined with flaring the cuff a little more and adding a good heel lift, the client has never had numb toes or sore ankles since

so as i said, all possible just needs a good fitter

why do the boot manufactures not do something about it...
1 money
2 money
3 money
4 they probably don't actually understand biomechanics!!!

i heard recently a story of a colleage who was on a trans atlantic flight and the chap he was sitting next to him started talking to him..my friend, a pedorthist mentioned his job and the other chap divulged that he was the footwear technical designer for one of the major running shoe brands ( i won't name them here)   within less than 30 mins my friend had determined that this chap knew NOTHING about biomechanics and that all the real design was done by the marketing dept. to make the shoe look like what the market wanted!!!!
post #5 of 8
 Jess,  congratulations on your level III!  You must be compensating well for your boot situation to pass level three.  You have probably heard it said that once you pass level III your learning really begins!  In an effort to help you understand boot alignment better and what CEM has discussed above, check out www.snowind.com and click on boot fitting tab and check out the alignment parameters I have defined and illustrated with 3D animations which may help you better understand how they work together.  You can also search threads here on Epic that discuss these alignment issues.  In fact, if you care to PM me with your email address I can attach a brief article I have written for our PSIA W newsletter on fore/aft alignment specifically.

post #6 of 8
I'll echo what has already been said in that what the industry markets and what is correct for good skiing are not necessarily related.  I woiuld say are not related.  Only in the last vedry few years have they actually been looking at reducing forward lean and binding ramp angle.  The Head Raptor is one of the new generations with reduced ramp and for this season Marker/Volkl announced new women's skis with reduced binding delta.

Like Bud I do some writing (actually quite a bit for Ski Racing Canada, Ski Press, and others).  Articles are on the store website at www.lous.ca.
post #7 of 8
Originally Posted by Lou Rosenfeld View Post

Like Bud I do some writing (actually quite a bit for Ski Racing Canada, Ski Press, and others).  Articles are on the store website at www.lous.ca.


Many of the links to those articles appear broken. Can you double check them? Only the 'Binding Position and Balance' link works for me.

post #8 of 8

Did my article help your understanding?
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