EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Tuning, Maintenance and Repairs › How to mount (system) bindings on rails
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How to mount (system) bindings on rails

post #1 of 94
9/13/09 at 5:53pm
Thread Starter 
I recently bought new skis for myself and my wife: both K2s with system bindings.

I notice how simple these look to mount, and I would like to do it and save myself $80, but they did not come with real instructions, and I would hate to get it wrong since it's a safety issue.  I searched the Web and was surprised to find no help on this.  (I wondered if it's a liability issue?) Can anyone point me to instructions?

If the details are significant, mine are 2009 Xplorers with the Marker 12.0s.  Hers are 2008 One Luvs with the Marker M1 11.0.

Thanks in advance!
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post #2 of 94
9/13/09 at 7:05pm
 Quote:
Originally Posted by PasadenaProf View Post

I've had both ACLs reconstructed, one at age 19, the other at age 29.  Now 36.  Like others, I wore a brace on each knee for a year or two afterward but no longer do.  I think the advantages of the brace were mostly psychological. Of course, rehab is crucial.

Just one thing to add: My second surgery was at the NYC Hospital for Special Surgery.  I don't remember the doc's name but he used a hamstring graft, which was then a new and less-proven procedure (had a patellar graft the first time).  My result on that hamstring-grafted knee has been much better -- faster recovery, less pain from the graft site (it felt like a mild hamstring pull), etc.  And today it honestly feels as good as new, which was never quite the case with the other one.

I don't know what the state of the art is these days, but I would be interested to hear from anyone who has gone through it recently.  I can track down the surgeon's name if anyone needs it.
Just to be clear.... You have had two ACL injuries and you are looking to save a couple of dollars by mounting and setting your own bindings, bindings that could protect your reconstructed ACL's, that you probably spent months rehabing, and your wife's ACL's from being injured. 
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post #3 of 94
9/13/09 at 7:22pm
$40 bucks to install a system binding seems a little steep to me.  If I weren't afraid of a law suit, I would tell you just to take a look at them; it ain't so hard to figure out.

On the other hand if for some reason a warranty issue arises, it would be good to have had an authorized Marker dealer install them. 
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post #4 of 94
9/13/09 at 8:47pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post

 Quote:

Just to be clear.... You have had two ACL injuries and you are looking to save a couple of dollars by mounting and setting your own bindings, bindings that could protect your reconstructed ACL's, that you probably spent months rehabing, and your wife's ACL's from being injured. 

Aw, bring out the heavy artillery, why don't you?
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post #5 of 94
9/13/09 at 8:48pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post

$40 bucks to install a system binding seems a little steep to me.  If I weren't afraid of a law suit, I would tell you just to take a look at them; it ain't so hard to figure out.

On the other hand if for some reason a warranty issue arises, it would be good to have had an authorized Marker dealer install them. 

Yes, it does.  I bought the skis on the Web, which is why it costs that much.  Maybe I can find a cheaper legit shop, though.
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post #6 of 94
9/13/09 at 8:52pm

Marker explicitly states on their website that they do not provide mounting info to the general public due to liability concerns.

My Railflex bindings came with basic mounting instructions and some nice poster here found even more detailed ones for me to use online. I had my bindings tested for $10 after I mounted them, but I do have to admit that I skied on them a few times before having it done (probably not super smart).
I went through this after a local shop quoted me something like $60 for mounting...they can certainly charge whatever they like, and I can certainly never go back there after hearing that quote.

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post #7 of 94
9/13/09 at 9:02pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi View Post

 

My Railflex bindings came with basic mounting instructions and some nice poster here found even more detailed ones for me to use online. I had my bindings tested for $10 after I mounted them,


That's what I had in mind.  Now, if only I could find a nice poster... ;-)
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post #8 of 94
9/14/09 at 5:42am
I mount my own bindings (even noon-system), but I've got to side with Philpug here.



If you were able to look at it and see what needs to be done ("mechanically" inclined) then I would say go for it. Then you could spend $20 on 2 release checks and feel good about it all. With some things, if you have to ask, it is better off left to the pro's. $40 mounts are just a tradeoff when saving money online.
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post #9 of 94
9/14/09 at 6:54am
 The liability concerns are exactly why it will cost $40 for the shop to mount them.
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post #10 of 94
9/14/09 at 10:12am
These are for the Marker iPT bindings on Volkl's, but maybe this helps.

http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/76040/forward-pressure-adjustment-marker-12-0-ipt

http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/80392/marker-ipt-fore-aft-adjustment
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post #11 of 94
9/14/09 at 10:33am
Thread Starter 
Thanks, mmpotash!
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post #12 of 94
9/14/09 at 1:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post

 The liability concerns are exactly why it will cost $40 for the shop to mount them.
Is the liability different for my $10 binding checks?
Is the shop not responsible in any way if they test my work, say it's OK, and they turn out to have been wrong?
This is a serious question, I'm not just being contrary.
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post #13 of 94
9/14/09 at 1:47pm
 Liability reasons aside..this guy has two new ACL's... it really sounds penny wise and dollar foolish.
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post #14 of 94
9/14/09 at 1:49pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post

 Liability reasons aside..this guy has two new ACL's... it really sounds penny wise and dollar foolish.


On the contrary -- they're not very new anymore.
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post #15 of 94
9/14/09 at 2:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi View Post

Is the liability different for my $10 binding checks?
Is the shop not responsible in any way if they test my work, say it's OK, and they turn out to have been wrong?
This is a serious question, I'm not just being contrary.
 

I'm not a lawyer or a shop employee. I really couldn't say. It seems to me that in the case of a system binding, the test pretty much is the mount.
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post #16 of 94
9/14/09 at 2:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi View Post

Is the liability different for my $10 binding checks?
Is the shop not responsible in any way if they test my work, say it's OK, and they turn out to have been wrong?
This is a serious question, I'm not just being contrary.
 




Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post




I'm not a lawyer or a shop employee. I really couldn't say. It seems to me that in the case of a system binding, the test pretty much is the mount.
 


Not a lawyer or shop employee either. I don't see a problem with charging $40 to mount a binding someone of the street walks in with. I do see a problem when a shop charges that same $40 to mount a system binding, bought in the store, to a ski bought in the store. It happens, I don't shop there anymore.


Here's an extension to VP's post. I by a pair of skis locally today, have them mounted, adjusted and tested here. This winter I am on vacation and decide my boots are hurting my feet, and I go have new ones fit. The shop also re-sets and tests my bindings for me. Is shop #2 now liable for shop #1's mount?
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post #17 of 94
9/14/09 at 5:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PasadenaProf View Post





On the contrary -- they're not very new anymore.


New as in not original. If I went though what I see people go though for knee rehabs...and I didn't know word one on how a binding should be set there is no way I would try to set it myself. 


Tell you what, have your wife read this thread then ask her if it is a good idea for you to be doing this yourself, let alone doing her bindings. I bet that she would will not let you near her new gear. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by krp8128 View Post



Not a lawyer or shop employee either. I don't see a problem with charging $40 to mount a binding someone of the street walks in with. I do see a problem when a shop charges that same $40 to mount a system binding, bought in the store, to a ski bought in the store. It happens, I don't shop there anymore.
 
We don't charge for mounting for gear purchased in our store. 
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post #18 of 94
9/14/09 at 5:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post
We don't charge for mounting for gear purchased in our store. 


As I expect from any reputable shop. Here's what happened to me, I bought my Metrons (integrated Binding) used for $500 in October 3 season ago. I asked how long it would take to get the bindings adjusted, and was told 3 weeks and another $20 or $30.

I asked for an instruction manual, which they reluctantly gave up, and left the store.
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post #19 of 94
9/14/09 at 5:31pm
$40 for about 10 minutes work, that's a charge-out rate of $240/ hour.  Lot's of Professionals have liability, but few have a charge out rate of $240/hour.  I'm not buying it.
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post #20 of 94
9/14/09 at 5:48pm
I think I understand the basics of liability law and liability insurance but I still do not understand why a binding maker would not provide easy to understand instructions for mounting bindings including the proper screws, screwdriver heads and other necessary incidentals.
I would often choose to trust my own ability instead of the young, seasonal shop employees that I meet at many ski shops if I had a decent set of instructions. I don't say that to disparage the ability of the shop employees I just do not think mounting a binding is rocket science and I do not think the majority of shop employees have training or skills that are beyond the ability of the average DIYer.
I also think that if the DIN adjustment marks can not be trusted by new binding buyers then the poor folks renting skis are in REAL TROUBLE because their bindings are set and rest daily. Either all ski bindings require release checks including rentals or the marks on the bindings can be trusted. I don't think the industry can not have it both ways.
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post #21 of 94
9/14/09 at 5:58pm
 I don't think you need a torque test every time, but you do need it at least once so you know if what the windows say resembles reality at all.
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post #22 of 94
9/14/09 at 6:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post

 I don't think you need a torque test every time, but you do need it at least once so you know if what the windows say resembles reality at all.

This is correct, just because the window says "8", it doesn't mean it will torque as an "8", it might be a 7.5 or 9. 
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post #23 of 94
9/14/09 at 7:38pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveturner View Post

I would often choose to trust my own ability instead of the young, seasonal shop employees that I meet at many ski shops if I had a decent set of instructions. I don't say that to disparage the ability of the shop employees I just do not think mounting a binding is rocket science and I do not think the majority of shop employees have training or skills that are beyond the ability of the average DIYer.

Precisely.
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post #24 of 94
9/20/09 at 3:32am
i had same dilemma last year. i picked up volkl tihershars with integrated marker ipt 12s on it. to install the bindings takes about 3.5 minutes. then if you desire ipt piston you need to drill one hole and use provided scews to hold it. i also though that $40 for this is steep and after a bit of reserch did it my self. then i took it to the shop and paid $10 or 15 to get bindings tested. now i have 50 days on them and everything is great.

i understand that binding for flat skis are not for everyone to mount, as lack of proper tools and knowledge can result in something going wrong, but integrated bindings are so simple to install that everyone should be able to do it. and as some one posted here $40 is well over $200/hour to do it. thats a rip off. basicaly shops give you choice overpay for skis or overpay for labor :(
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post #25 of 94
9/20/09 at 5:40am
It seems to me they are trying to disuade you from buying skis from somebody else, and take revenge upon you for buying elsewhere and not giving them their margin.  Since they can't compete on price and stay in business, they are trying to make it difficult and expensive for you to buy skis elsewhere by overcharging for their labour. 

I would pay, and have gladly payed, $40+ bucks to mount a binding on a flat ski.  Holes need to be drilled precisely, etc., but with the plate already mounted and holes pre-drilled in the plate of a system binding, $40. is too much. 
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post #26 of 94
9/20/09 at 6:46am
You guys should get together and open a ski shop.
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post #27 of 94
9/20/09 at 6:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveturner View Post

I think I understand the basics of liability law and liability insurance but I still do not understand why a binding maker would not provide easy to understand instructions for mounting bindings...


I also think that if the DIN adjustment marks can not be trusted by new binding buyers then the poor folks renting skis are in REAL TROUBLE because their bindings are set and rest daily. Either all ski bindings require release checks including rentals or the marks on the bindings can be trusted. I don't think the industry can not have it both ways.

1st)   You just aren't very clear who the binding manufacturer's actual customer is. Think that one through for a few minutes then you'll start to understand.

2nd)  Every rental binding IS required to have a complete function test prior to the start of every season AND a percentage of bindings need to be randomly selected 'in season' for testing. The industry isn't trying to have it 'both ways'... it's saying the same thing over and over (binding must be tested, spring rates change and the DIN scale is just a starting point), you guys are just trying to justify your own (wrong) way of thinking.
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post #28 of 94
9/20/09 at 6:57am
This thread is just as much fun every fall, it never gets old.

...
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post #29 of 94
9/20/09 at 7:58am
What is with you people?! Can you really blame the ski shops for charging $40 to mount skis? You didn't buy the skis from them, if they screw the mount up they have to buy you a new set to replace it nevermind insurance, employee wages, overhead, and heaven forbid they see some kind of profit! I have seen inner city shops charge more than that just because they are the only shop around. Supply and demand is a common business practice use in every industry, why should the ski industry be an exception. You have a choice whether or not you want that shop to mount your skis, if you don't like it, don't do it. At the same time, how can you seriously be sweating $40 for a sport that brings such great joy to your life. Obviously your all passionate skiers if you are spending down time blogging about skiing.
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post #30 of 94
9/20/09 at 8:05am
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