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Teaching on rental equipment

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
In the Rob Butler, What the Heck??? post Wigs said: "No, I rent and teach. Kinda like leasing a car. I want to experience what my students are feeling, or not feeling."

Wigs, I am not sure why you take the approach of teaching on rental equipment. Do you modify your technique to adjust to poor fitting boots and poorly tuned skis? My guess is that you would not do that, so why would you use rented equipment? Surely the students will not see any technique changes in your own skiing when on rental equipment. Or do they? If you said that occasionally you rent equipment to better relate to the students, I would understand, but to do it on a regular basis, is somewhat ... unique, no?

I only ask because I was curious. I would also be curious to hear other instructors' (or anyone else's) opinion on the value of teaching in rented equipment.
post #2 of 24
Some days are more fun than others. The rental gear comes out of the shop warm and the students plunk the skis right down on the snow. Ice clumps form and stick to the bottoms of the skis but ........... you don't notice till it's time to start sliding but......... no one moves an inch. For the lack of an occasional WAXING I now have ten people stuck to the #(&%#% snow.
post #3 of 24
No Tom, it's just Wigs, he is weird : : :

I think his tongue was firmly embedded in his cheek (It was, Wigs? Or wasn't it?)

post #4 of 24
PSIA-E has a class in their Master's Certification called "Get in Gear". Part of the clinic is spent on rental equipment. I'll be taking the course first week in January at Bromley.

I'll get back to you on the rational the Education Department has on having the instructors experience rentals.

Are there any others in this forum doing the Masters Courses?
post #5 of 24
If they make you teach on rentals all season, becomne a ski patroller, you'll have fewer aching feet [img]smile.gif[/img]

post #6 of 24
Free rental skis garnered from the nice girls at company rental for low-end classes sure. Saves chewing up my skis and actually improves my skiing by refinement of the fine motor skills (steering, sliding etc) to compensate for the rental shortfalls. Also rental poles during beginner lessons are just props.

Boots .... never.

Ott. I know a few patrollers that ski rentals all season. They call them their "work skis".

Oz [img]smile.gif[/img]

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ November 21, 2001 01:54 PM: Message edited 1 time, by man from oz ]</font>
post #7 of 24
>>>Ott. I know a few patrollers that ski rentals all season. They call them their "work skis".<<<

Oz, sure, we all get rentals for rock skis, but rental boots? As you said, never...

Boots is what I was talking about when I mentioned sore feet.

post #8 of 24
I only teach my beginners on rentals, because I can't afford to spend $200 on a pair of 123cm skis I use only for classes. It's my good stuff at all other times.
post #9 of 24
If we are talking about the newest in Rental Gear, it actually makes sense(except for the boots) as a lot of new gear is specifically designed for beginners in more than one way. Learning how the new skis will operate can show an instructor how best to teach to all of their advantages.
post #10 of 24
With the recent improvements in the quality of rental skis for beginers it really makes sense for us to be on the same ski. Most skis rented to beginers are much shorter with more sidecut.

If I demo a turn or lead my class on a pair of 184's while my students are on 123's-150's the turn shape that I'm showing will not be apropriate for the student.

Just as our visual image of movements must be accurate for the students needs, so too should our equipment and turn shape match our student's..

The skill blend we demonstrate will not be correct for the student if you force a longer ski to shape a turn that is correct for the students who are on shorter ski.

We feel this to be so important that we require instructors be on the same ski as our begining students, and we provide them for the instructor.
post #11 of 24
HAP, you really provide shorty rentals for all 370 instructors in the ski school? Do they get to keep them all season so they can tune them or do they have to return them every day?

Just curious, because it won't be long, if that trend continues, that the management will insist that instructors buy their own 123 cm skis, as they do their uniforms. And unless you pay them more than $25/hr, that becomes unprofitable for a few month of part time instructing.

A sad thing for the 40 years I've been around it here is that not only do instructors get poverty wages, but if they are available to teach for eight hours but only get two hours lesson, they get paid for two hours. And around here, when the January thaw puts down rain for a week or two, they sit there and get paid nothing because of no lessons and it is hard to scrape up enough money for a Big Mac that way.

No wonder the turnover is so great, unless one does it out of love and makes money somewhere else, ski schools make it impossible to make enough money to support a family.

Enough ranting... .....Ott

post #12 of 24
As for teaching in rental gear, it could be useful for "never evers", however I feel as do the manufaturers that the returning students those who already have the PASSION and are looking to improve not be introduced to the sport. Are actualy looking at YOU Herr instruktor as a role model. That is why we have a line up to see that your shirt tails are tucked in. And that is why the PROFORM business started. The Mfg.s feel that the student will see that great gear on thier favorite SKi GOD or GODESS and rush out to buy it.

Now you stike a good argument. Maybe the Manufacturers would be better off GIVING the ski school skis to USE by the instructors while on the JOB. This would solve some of the age ol' Pro Form abuse. You know the guys who get the stuff for a few dollars and turn around sell em and use rental skis to teach the rest of the year! (deer in the headlight look coming from some in the crowd)

I began in the rental shop of a local ski area many many years ago. So I know and agree with you that the student does not always get the best of the best. The Never ever who is looking to get introduced may have a bad experience, but franly I believe that is up to you Herr Instroktor. Carry some wax in your pocket, be familure with the rental binding and equipment, have a pocket tool to fix if you can. (we must be careful as there is liability, so not too much FIXING or waxing, your area should have a policy on this) But sometimes a binding may get caught because the student jamed their scarf in it or some such Newbie stuff. (do the buckels go on the inside or outside)

As for the 3, 4, 5 and up students, we need to take more time for them in getting the equipment right. However they will have developed their own preferences. Most will have equipment by the second year so this becomes less of an issue. That is why I do not feel you get anything by using area rental equipment for this level of skier. Only sympathy, maybe you can get a bigger tip so you can buy some NEW skis! (or you can take your tip get a pro form buy low sell high, NO that can not BE)

Get a grip join the Peace Corps or something, rental equipment so you experience what the common masses feel is FUNNY!

If you are an instructor and do not feel the ski of the student, at your level, by just looking at it as it slides on the surface YOU NEED HELP!

GO learn the "Q angle" or something become an areobic instructor or some thing more useful like fishing.

Sepp Rushep said" You are a skier or a Fisherman." SO I keep trying to learn to tie these darn SCUDS!

That is my rant I could be wrong what do you think?
post #13 of 24
On a lighter note and more civilized approach to the subject of RENTAL skis.

I ski about 40 to 50 days a year in various places. After many years of purchasing the best equipment that money could buy. (at times I would be given stuff) And hauling it around so much that the baggage guys would come in to have coffee with me, and gripe.

I found that rental of top preformance ski equipment is THE WAY TO GO.

I buy my boots and travel with them however I rent my skis. (I buy poles as to rent them for a week or month is silly)

Here is an example of what you might experience. Lets say you go to Aspen. Well Gorsuch is just below the gondola. For you instructors that are visiting, the ski school is right there too. (so go in and ask for your discount or comp, depending on your L and who you know)

So you go into Gorsuch and stike a conversation with thier tech. GIve him or her, (not many hers work there in rental?) and agree on a ski that is right for you.
TIP (that is important for later)

After your first day or even just after lunch, you feel that the snow conditions are changing. Go into the shop, at the bottom of the GONDOLA and get another pair or a different ski. (here is where the TIP comes in) The tech will work with you on these things. He or she may even have a personal prefference for this part of the mountain or that. Hey I have even set up the next day with Bandit XX in the AM and then a change out to Volke or Solomon after lunch (and by the way the cellar is just a few steps away)

It is wonderful!

Like having a ski tech and van follow you around to the resorts! These guys and gals are knowlegeable and have probably skied every single pair in the place. So who better to fix you up. OH, never take these back to your place after a day of skiing. Bring em bacdk and have them fix em up for the next day. They will select the right wax and give the edge a zip or two. Frankly that is another good reason to switch skis. (did I mention to TIP)

Belive me IF the tech sees that YOU know what you are doing and you have a desire to seek out their advice and TIP. YOU will be treated like the TOP dog! They will watch to see that the wax is right and the bottoms are fixed. Oh yeah and ROcks are no problem if you ski THEIR skis, I just seem to enjoy it more! (no feeling of loss when I find granite in the trough!)

And guess what? Instead of the Baggage guys having coffee with you, well I have had coffee and a bagle with the tech team many a time after renting for $100+ a day, you seem like family to them! (and you get the low down on the OB)

It is good to be KING!
post #14 of 24
Dr Go, you forgot to mention the TIP.
post #15 of 24
I teach on a pair of Head Cyclones. 160cm. I own them, so they have not been a rental. HOwever, they are designed for rental stock. Head says that a never-ever can be skiing parallel in one day on these skis.
post #16 of 24
Head says that a never-ever can be skiing parallel in one day on these skis.
And what do you say?
post #17 of 24
Hey Rick,

I heard that HEAD said those skis would survive a jump from 10,000 ft, I will rent the plane, you sign all the papers so that we all do not get sued for taking advantage of you in a weak moment and lets go! (although that probably happens alot, the weak moment I mean)

Oh and we will take care of the TIP right Milesb?

post #18 of 24
Ott Gangl

We have a fleet of skis that are available for use each day. They are used only by instructors and are tuned weekly. Instructors are not charged for thier uniform. They do pay a deposit of $75 that is refunded at end of season if uniform is returned.
post #19 of 24

They are a very easy ski to use. The demensions are 120/70/110. As a PMTS instructor, I find students are able to balance easier on these skis, because there is a solid platform. As they acquire balance and transfer skills, they move ahead quite rapidly. Yes, I can teach first time students to ski parallel in a day.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ November 24, 2001 04:41 PM: Message edited 1 time, by Rick H ]</font>
post #20 of 24
I think that you should not ski on rental equipment because it looks unprofessional. The only time I have used rentals is when the snow cover has been so bad that you wouldn't want to use you own skis. And this was only in a beginer lesson. I would be embraressed to be an instructor in any other situation. It just looks bad.
post #21 of 24
Rentals are just fine. I use the resorts short skis for beginning classes. 120 - 133 but do recommend you use your own boots. [img]tongue.gif[/img]
post #22 of 24
Hi, wecome aboard..
Where is "pt instuctor"? That is what you have for location in your profile. was that an oops?
post #23 of 24
I'm not an instructor myself, but I wonder why there are some of you who think that teaching on rental equipment is such a bad idea. I suspect that more than a few beginners think that instructors ski so well in part because they have the advantage of the "latest and greatest" ski equipment. What better way to demonstrate that technique trumps equipment than for the instructor to teach on rental skis? I, for one, don't think that it would at all be unprofessional for instructors to use rental skis if they so desire. Of course I wouldn't force anyone into rental BOOTS against their will

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ November 26, 2001 02:48 PM: Message edited 1 time, by andrew_tai ]</font>
post #24 of 24
As part of my staff training a few years ago I made the whole staff go through the rental shop process and then go clinic on them. It was eye opening for ALL and we all relized the boot was a MUCH bigger issue than the ski, but more important we understand the frame of mind the learner is in by the time the get to you. The process is not quick or painless. As for the skiing we better understand the limitations put on the the guest by there equipment. The ability to edge a dull ski or bend into reverse camber a ski that is already there it was interesting. The Best result of all of this was we were able to get ALL NEW EQUIPMENT in the rental shop because the mountain manager and ski school director relized after they went through this how bad it really was.
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