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Forward?? - Page 2

post #31 of 47
I agree with Sfdean.
When I want to turn in a hurry, I drive my front edges into the hill, using all the leverage I can get by driving my shins into the boot tongue as I set a hard edge angle. I tend to manage the pressure, bringing it back as the turn gets along so as not to slide the heels out. The rear has a lot easier time staying in the groove thats already made by the front though.

When ever I ski terrain that requires me to be sharp I automatically get forward and feal my front edges through the front of my shins and ankles as well as the bottom of my toes and feet. The only time I don't put some pressure on the front of the boot when skiing agressively is when it's very very steep (almost vertical); then I have to get back or I will be doing summersaults due to the drag of the snow on the skis.
post #32 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by RicB
isn't this why most boot makers are flattening the ramp angle and reducing forward lean?
.
RicB,

They are? I have not seen much of that.
post #33 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by RicB
isn't this why most boot makers are flattening the ramp angle and reducing forward lean?
.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman
RicB,
They are? I have not seen much of that.
Actually, "reducing" is the impression I also have from Jeff Bergeron´s comments on new boots.
Maybe not all of them, maybe not all types.
I remember him mentioning the Heads more upright by 5 degrees.
As I already posted, our Sarka Zahrobska has different boots (Head) for SL and for GS (besides the third for SG/DH) the difference being (also) in the forward lean.
(I don´t know the details but she finished her season and I will be seeing them in a relaxed atmosphere soon and try to find out about the gear as much as possible.)
post #34 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by checkracer
Quote:
Originally Posted by RicB
isn't this why most boot makers are flattening the ramp angle and reducing forward lean?
.

Actually, "reducing" is the impression I also have from Jeff Bergeron´s comments on new boots.
Maybe not all of them, maybe not all types.
I remember him mentioning the Heads more upright by 5 degrees.
As I already posted, our Sarka Zahrobska has different boots (Head) for SL and for GS (besides the third for SG/DH) the difference being (also) in the forward lean.
(I don´t know the details but she finished her season and I will be seeing them in a relaxed atmosphere soon and try to find out about the gear as much as possible.)
I guess the question is What were they before the 5 degree reduction?

Most plugs are around 14-16 degrees according to GMOL
post #35 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman
RicB,

They are? I have not seen much of that.
Well I've experienced this in the newer boots I've owned, and was told this by the boot expert we import for clinics every fall, Brent Amsbury. He's based out of the Seattle area, maybe you know of him. He is also a certified podiatrist, a very knowledgable fellow. His info supposedly comes fro mthe boot makers themselves, and si born out by his experience. I came to the same conclusion about the relationship between the ability to move lateraly and being more skeletal and the ramp angle and forward lean of the boot, and this was supported by my discussions with him.

I think it is relative though like you ask, "what was the lean angle before". Later, RicB.
post #36 of 47
Yes, 14-16 degrees, agreed, that´s what MY bootfitter guru says too.
post #37 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by RicB
I don't know about the rest of you, but our mountain is full of people that have too much forward lean and ramp angle in their boots. This leads to an inability to finesse fore and aft balance with the ankle joint and an inability to finesse fore and aft pressure on the ski from a centered balanced stance. isn't this why most boot makers are flattening the ramp angle and reducing forward lean? to give a more functional range of motion in a more upright stance?
I too see way too many recreational skiers with very aggressive and very stiff racing boots that have only one purpose or use: Racing.

Remember Tony Knows how to ski, He keeps his Toes-Knees-Nose lined up!

http://thestache.tripod.com/id4.html
post #38 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by RicB
Well I've experienced this in the newer boots I've owned, and was told this by the boot expert we import for clinics every fall, Brent Amsbury. He's based out of the Seattle area, maybe you know of him. He is also a certified podiatrist, a very knowledgable fellow. His info supposedly comes fro mthe boot makers themselves, and si born out by his experience. I came to the same conclusion about the relationship between the ability to move lateraly and being more skeletal and the ramp angle and forward lean of the boot, and this was supported by my discussions with him.

I think it is relative though like you ask, "what was the lean angle before". Later, RicB.
Wow
RicB, I know Brent well. His shop is 5 minutes form my house here in Bellevue, WA. It is called World Cup Skier service.

With that said, I don't have Brent work on my boots. I like Brent and often think he is knowledgable. I had him do work on my boots back in the Technica TNT AVS days, but never was that happy with it. He has come a long way though and apparantly received some kind of podiatric training earlier this season or last. But calling him a certified poditrist may be a stretch. In his defense, I have a very tough fit. H2 years ago he did some goofy cuf alignment on my right boot to try to get me off my inside edge by adding a shim to the inside cuff on the lateral side of my boot. it did not work.

I do have all of our skis stone ground by his shop, but won't let them tune them anymore. They made 3 pair of my skis virtually unusable last season. He has a high zuit fully automated Wintersteiger machine that does a fabulous flat stone grind.

Jim Mates at Custom Boot fitting service is who we go to as do many of the racers here. Also Martin at Sturtevant sports is excellent.

Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to "Tube" Brent. I consider him a good friend and do have some great conversations with him and for many people I am sure he does a great job.

We still find that alot of boots still have a lot of ramp and/or forward lean. Of course this also depends greatly on each persons physiology. For instance I have very hhigh calf muscle and extremely small lower leg. Both my boys have what we call CANKLES (their calf & lower legs are really big and no definition between the two) I am sure they inherited this from their mother's side of the family!

Their boots must be straighted up an amazing amount
Because of this. Otherwise they would be in damn near a squat. (Both in Atomic Race-Tech plug)
post #39 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by RicB


I don't know if I ever want to ski constantly cuff neutral, I want to ski with my ankle range of motion being such that I can adjust my fore aft balance with subtle opening and closing of the ankle joint and be able to effect fore and aft pressure on the ski through ankle movement without being leaveraged out of balance, and keep my butt over my feet. I want this in every turn to some degree. When I get out of this functional range, I want my boots there to support me. Staying cuff neutral to me translates to static ankle.

Ric:
I like that a lot.
Besides that, have you worked with the book you recommend on the other thread (ProbodX) ??
And lastly, here is a quote by Weems which might relate to some of the issues we discussed.
Quote: "the amount I dilute racing technique is inversely proportional to the amount of benefit for my students at all levels." (End of Quote)
post #40 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman
Wow
RicB, I know Brent well. His shop is 5 minutes form my house here in Bellevue, WA. It is called World Cup Skier service.

With that said, I don't have Brent work on my boots. I like Brent and often think he is knowledgable. I had him do work on my boots back in the Technica TNT AVS days, but never was that happy with it. He has come a long way though and apparantly received some kind of podiatric training earlier this season or last. But calling him a certified poditrist may be a stretch. In his defense, I have a very tough fit. H2 years ago he did some goofy cuf alignment on my right boot to try to get me off my inside edge by adding a shim to the inside cuff on the lateral side of my boot. it did not work.

I do have all of our skis stone ground by his shop, but won't let them tune them anymore. They made 3 pair of my skis virtually unusable last season. He has a high zuit fully automated Wintersteiger machine that does a fabulous flat stone grind.

Jim Mates at Custom Boot fitting service is who we go to as do many of the racers here. Also Martin at Sturtevant sports is excellent.

Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to "Tube" Brent. I consider him a good friend and do have some great conversations with him and for many people I am sure he does a great job.

We still find that alot of boots still have a lot of ramp and/or forward lean. Of course this also depends greatly on each persons physiology. For instance I have very hhigh calf muscle and extremely small lower leg. Both my boys have what we call CANKLES (their calf & lower legs are really big and no definition between the two) I am sure they inherited this from their mother's side of the family!

Their boots must be straighted up an amazing amount
Because of this. Otherwise they would be in damn near a squat. (Both in Atomic Race-Tech plug)
Interesting Atomicman. He is imported every year by our division to our fall festival. This year he was brought to our locker room and we had a lond discission. He said he is now certified. Who knows?

He did some boot work for me three boots ago, but I now work on my own boots, and am very reluctant to let anyone touch them.

I pay very close attention to what he says, and so far he has not said anything that allarmed me, and has many happy customers in our Div. Later, Ricb.
post #41 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biowolf
Ric:
I like that a lot.
Besides that, have you worked with the book you recommend on the other thread (ProbodX) ??
And lastly, here is a quote by Weems which might relate to some of the issues we discussed.
Quote: "the amount I dilute racing technique is inversely proportional to the amount of benefit for my students at all levels." (End of Quote)
I have the book and have read it very carefully. It makes total sense to me from a foundational fitness view. I'm just starting to try the workout, but it is not hard to see why it would work, it is like many of the chinese movement exercises I do, with a western perspective.

Other than the obvious Biowolf, I would love to have you distill Bode's style for the benefit of my students. later, RicB.
post #42 of 47
[quote=Atomicman]He has come a long way though and apparantly received some kind of podiatric training earlier this season or last. But calling him a certified podiatrist may be a stretch.

Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to "Tube" Brent.

For many people I am sure he does a great job.

QUOTE]I quoted above that I said he does a great job for many people.


You have to have 2 years of college pre-med and then go to 4 years of medical school to become a DPM in Podiatry to become a Doctor of Podiatric Medicine. (This includes the ability to prescribe medicine, order x-rays) I guarnatee you he is not a Podiatrist.

I know he has not become a Doctor.

Anyway , the point is he did a good job for you and your compatriots!

Over & out!

AM
post #43 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by RicB
I have the book and have read it very carefully. It makes total sense to me from a foundational fitness view. I'm just starting to try the workout, but it is not hard to see why it would work, it is like many of the chinese movement exercises I do, with a western perspective.

Other than the obvious Biowolf, I would love to have you distill Bode's style for the benefit of my students. later, RicB.
Thanks for the information on the book, Ric. Sounds very interesting. Re: Bode, I leave the analysis to more qualified people.
post #44 of 47
[quote=Atomicman]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman
He has come a long way though and apparantly received some kind of podiatric training earlier this season or last. But calling him a certified podiatrist may be a stretch.

Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to "Tube" Brent.

For many people I am sure he does a great job.

QUOTE]I quoted above that I said he does a great job for many people.


You have to have 2 years of college pre-med and then go to 4 years of medical school to become a DPM in Podiatry to become a Doctor of Podiatric Medicine. (This includes the ability to prescribe medicine, order x-rays) I guarnatee you he is not a Podiatrist.

I know he has not become a Doctor.

Anyway , the point is he did a good job for you and your compatriots!

Over & out!

AM
Well I doubt that he is lying, so I probably got his certification wrong. It was very reassuring to me that he stated something that I had already come to a conclusion on in my own thinking. That effective lateral hip movement is directly related to how much flex is persent in the hip.

Like I said, he only worked on my boots (one pair)once. I don't ski with custom footbeds, I ski with aftermarket mozkito footbeds, and any boot mods I do, I do myself. He does have a large group of people he has successfully fixed boots for in our division. Later, RicB.
post #45 of 47
Ric:
Can you say something about your footbeds. please. I tried to Google them without results.
post #46 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biowolf
Ric:
Can you say something about your footbeds. please. I tried to Google them without results.
Biowolf, I got the spelling wrong. Try this, www.moszkito.com

I use the $50.00 rigid footbed, and really like it. Later, RicB.
post #47 of 47
Intersesting thread here.

For what it's worth, here's an article with illustrations by Megan Harvey on types of stances:

http://www.psia.org/psia_2002/educat...ll99stance.asp

What works for Bode may not work for anyone else. Maier, who has fine, sound technique, is pretty centered. There are times when WC folks align themselves forward, other times when they align themselves centrally, but pressure the front of their boots.

You can teach yourself to ski with a center/forward alignment by starting on the green slopes and getting a feel for it. It seems to me that if I could do it, pretty much anyone can. (A hotshot racer suggested I try it.) My experience was that it wasn't all that functional. Nor was it all that sound. It's easier and more functional to ski centered. It's where our natural alignment is and that has evolved over thousands of years. Besides, with the new skis and the more upright boots the manufacturers are going to, centered works fine, even running the gates.

I mean, you guys could try what Bode does and see. Maybe it will help.
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