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Pontoons vs full reverse/reverse

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 
Hello, dear friends!
Since I am somewhat new to the uber fatties I'd like to ask you a few things.
I've done some research on the topic and found out a lot of info on the skis for super deep snow which to my understanding can be divided into two groups:

1) Spatulashaped skis (ARG, Lotus, Praxis)
2) Pintailed skis - K2 Pontoon

Both types are great but what I haven't seen is the difference in performance between them. It would be great if you share your observations and knowledge.

Thanks 

PS: in short - what the difference (performance wise) between Pontoon and Praxis is?
post #2 of 17
post #3 of 17
Thread Starter 
very nice reading indeed, thanks D(C).

Do I understand correctly that the Toons are more versatile than the spatulashapes but are slightly less pivoty/nimble in the trees?
post #4 of 17
Having never skied either one, but based on several friends that have used one or the other or both, my understanding is that because of their large reverse sidecut Spatulas are one of the fastest pivoting skis, and best for quickly dumping speed, which makes them great in the trees, but pretty scary on hardpack. Had a friend that demoed some and loved them in the powder but kept falling over in the lift line.  The Pontoons are definitely also deep snow specific, but are marginally better than Spats on the hardpark, but not alot.
post #5 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by swedskier View Post

very nice reading indeed, thanks D(C).

Do I understand correctly that the Toons are more versatile than the spatulashapes but are slightly less pivoty/nimble in the trees?

Depends upon how you define versatile and the exact comparison you are making but when compared to a full spat shape, I'd say yes. If you compare the Toon to something like a Rossi S7 which has a conventional center, then possibly not.

Don't just focus on shape though. Keep in mind that flex is still an enormous factor here. One of the big things that rocker does is pre-bend the ski into its turning arc. Further bending occurs when you stand on it and ski. A softer ski will turn easier and feel surfier than a stiffer ski of the same shape. OTH, the stiffer ski will demonstrate more stabilty. None of that is good or bad just differences that fit different preferences.

I skied 10-12 variations on the rockered theme last year and thought that the S7 was the most versatile when a variety of surfaces were considered. However, it was not the absolute best when one was just considering deep untracked conditions.

SJ
post #6 of 17
Thread Starter 
Thanks, SJ!

What was your #1 personal preference for deep untracked conditions?

Thanks. 
post #7 of 17

I was putting my boots on in the parking lot at Snowbird last season at the end of a two week storm cycle that had dumped about 15 feet of snow (18" new and still snowing that morning).  There were two locals booting up in the truck next to me. One had Pontoons and the other Rossi S7s.  I figured they were just finishing up the best test you could possibly hope for, so I asked them how the two skis compared, and they agreed that the S7s were way more versital than the Toons.


Edited by mudfoot - 9/1/09 at 10:45am
post #8 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by swedskier View Post

Thanks, SJ!

What was your #1 personal preference for deep untracked conditions?

Thanks. 

It didn't matter all that much as a lot of them worked really well. If I were going to buy one for just that condition, I'd be torn between the Pontoon and Hellbent and would probably come down on the side of the 'Bent as it feels slightly more uhhhhh......."normal".

SJ
post #9 of 17
I own 195 Praxis Powders.  I haven't tried the Pontoons, but I have tried other, more conventional skis with a similarly sized tip -- namely, the 186 Moment Comis and 184 Icelantic Shamans, both of which have 160mm tips -- as well as the 190 Moment Ruby (140mm tip) and 191 Scott P4 (137mm tip).  Based on those experiences, I don't think I'll be buying any skis with a tip over 140mm without demoing them extensively first.

I found that the huge tips of the Comis and Shamans tended to deflect a lot in cut-up and crud.  That doesn't happen with the 131mm tips of the Praxis, the 137mm tips of the P4, or the 140mm tips of the Ruby, all of which gave me a more controlled and stable ride.  But this seems like something that may depend a lot on factors like the skier's weight and skiing style, so I'm not sure whether it necessarily would be a universal reaction.
Edited by TheDad - 9/1/09 at 1:25pm
post #10 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraJim View Post




It didn't matter all that much as a lot of them worked really well. If I were going to buy one for just that condition, I'd be torn between the Pontoon and Hellbent and would probably come down on the side of the 'Bent as it feels slightly more uhhhhh......."normal".

SJ
 

Did you ski the Kuro last year. I think if you are looking for HUGE that one is a pretty good bet. I never got to ski it in deep snow, but I'd sure like to.
post #11 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post




Did you ski the Kuro last year. I think if you are looking for HUGE that one is a pretty good bet. I never got to ski it in deep snow, but I'd sure like to.

I did. I got on it twice but one was a windy "day after" and it was definitely not in it's element there. The other was a pow day but the snow wasn't deep enough for the ski to really matter very much. In fact, on both occasions that I did ski it, I would have been equally/better served by a conventional ski. Circumstances were such that on the three biggish days that I happened to get last year, a Kuro was not at hand.
 
So.......I liked the Kuro but don't have enough data to suggest that it is any "better" than a host of other vaguely similar big skis.

FWIW: We are in very casual discussions with a ski maker about a small collection of proprietary custom skis. The maker is of the opinion that many folks (including some of his riders) agonize way too much over stuff like this.

SJ
post #12 of 17
Deep untracked? I'd probably go with the 'toons myself. Both types of skis are going to be unfun on variable conditions. What are we talking here? Heli or cat skiing? Sledcountry? Or lift served terrain? If lift served where you are going to be encountering variable conditions then I'd actually think about the S7 or the JJ. If you are lapping with a sled/heli/cat, then you really can't go wrong with either choice but I'd go Pontoons.
post #13 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Que View Post

Both types of skis are going to be unfun on variable conditions.

Depends on what you mean by "variable."

I use it to mean crappy snow, cut-up snow, crusted over snow, avy debris, the junk that the groomer kicks off to the side -- anything that isn't groomed. 

Those are exactly the conditions where a full reverse-reverse ski shines. 

If I can count on spending the day in that stuff, venturing onto groomers only to get to and from the lift, I'm on the Praxis.
post #14 of 17
Sorry. Ya, I was going more for the off piste euro variable. Hard sun crusts, chopped up frozen snow, ice etc. The skis that he listed originally are unfun in such conditions mainly because of their relative softness vs. something a bit more practical such as JJ or a S7. 

Last year I spend a couple of weeks in the Alps and thankfully took my Bro stiffies and that allowed me to power through it. A Pontoon in those conditions would have been very unpleasant.
post #15 of 17
 Of the skis I've tried, I'd want the 2010 Katana for that.
post #16 of 17
I thought pontoons were full reverse / reverse...


Never the less, I relly don't notice much difference between Praxis and a conventional fat like a P4 in blower. Where it makes a difference is in snow that has a bit of sun or wind effect, a bit layered, or in really tight lines in the trees.

Where Praxis really do stink is on travese and skating on a narrow track. I think something like a Megawatt would be much more speedy for skating or skinning. 
post #17 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by mudfoot View Post

Having never skied either one, but based on several friends that have used one or the other or both, my understanding is that because of their large reverse sidecut Spatulas are one of the fastest pivoting skis, and best for quickly dumping speed, which makes them great in the trees, but pretty scary on hardpack. Had a friend that demoed some and loved them in the powder but kept falling over in the lift line.  The Pontoons are definitely also deep snow specific, but are marginally better than Spats on the hardpark, but not alot.

^^^ What he said. I have the Spatula and they are very easy to turn, pivot and stop in pwder and soft crud. They are also worthless on firm snow, but you get used to skiing like crap on your way back to the lift.

None of the fun shaped skis will ski well on firm snow and are really on good on new-snow-days.

Michael
Edited by WILDCAT - 9/5/09 at 3:28pm
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