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Breasts Barred From 2010 Olympic Ski Jumping - Page 2

post #31 of 125
Petition signed, right after GarryZ.

I'm with VA in that I won't boycott watching top world athlete's compete in winter sports- male, female or party animal- but it would be nice to see the committee allow in the interest of fairness.  There are so few areas for women to compete in sports for money, I see this as nothing but good.
post #32 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirquerider View Post





Doing my very small part, I signed the petition.  Thanks for posting.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonni View Post

Petition signed, right after GarryZ.

I'm with VA in that I won't boycott watching top world athlete's compete in winter sports- male, female or party animal- but it would be nice to see the committee allow in the interest of fairness.  There are so few areas for women to compete in sports for money, I see this as nothing but good.
 

+ 1 more on the petition
post #33 of 125
 Signed petition last year, still don't understand the sexism in such a large arena.

One of their claims is not enough athletes, I live 5 min from a jumping hill and there are more female athletes (youth) then male who train two nights a week every week all year round, not much to look forward too.

Fu#k the French!
post #34 of 125
Petition signed.
Quote:
Fu#k the French!

& please let's not bring the french into this.
post #35 of 125
Worldwide, how many people participated in Skeleton before it was made an Olympic event?   I don't know, I'm just asking.
post #36 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by primoz View Post

Quote:

I can easily be wrong about this, so take this as my opinion only, nothing more. I was never in Vikersund, but I have been shooting ski flying WC in Planica for years, and I saw many a bit less experienced jumpers making smaller mistakes ending in ER, or even finishing their career due consequences of single small mistake... Mistake, which wouldn't even "qualify" for fall in normal hills.
From this what I saw on women races, I admit I saw only 2 or 3 of them, I can say they are technically far from Continental cup men jumpers, and even further from World cup jumpers. So with something like this, I can understand somehow, they don't want to see them on big flying hills. Imagine worse thing happens and you have 5 almost dead girls on end of race. And falling somewhere around 100m mark in Planica is not nice. Unfortunately I have seen this, and it takes whole bunch of thumbling down the 40+ degrees icy hill, most of times with jumper being unconcious. So it's definitely not nice sight, and definitely not something you want to show to people around the world, as representation of particular sport.
Another issue is flying 220 or 230m. I really doubt most of girls are capable of doing this, even with higher inrun speed. I believe there are 2 or 3 of them capable of doing this, but to have at least kinda safe race, you have to consider inrun speed to be proper for huge majority of them, not for 2 or 3 best ones. This way you would most likely get jumps around 120 or 130m, which is something noone will come to see. And as someone said, it really is all about the money.... if we like it or not.

This is an historical argument for not letting women participate in any sports at all - their delicate bodies might get hurt.

Here's a novel idea - let female athletes make their own decisions about what is acceptable risk.

As for ski jumping - either allow the women to compete against the men or compete against each other.  But to ban them entirely is discriminatory and without justification. 
post #37 of 125
Do the FIS or Olympic regulations say men only?  If not it should be up to the national team selection systems.  If they are crazy enough, and good enough, let them jump with the men.  But why does there have to be separate events?

It may not work out too well for them, it sure has not for Michele Wi in golf.
post #38 of 125
Quote:
This is an historical argument for not letting women participate in any sports at all - their delicate bodies might get hurt.
 

I know it was kind of a hokey event, but Kristi Leskinen was consistantly the top performing athlete in the recent Superstars competition, beating out an inconsistant Bode Miller in the finals.
JF
post #39 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acrophobia View Post

Here's a novel idea - let female athletes make their own decisions about what is acceptable risk.
 

I don't have anything against women in ski jumping. If nothing else, they look a whole lot better then skinny 50kg guys
But you guys from other side of ocean should know way better then anyone else, that things are about money and nothing else. Do you really think sponsors would be thrilled with event, where they would have 5 out of 30 competitors badly injured? Not to confuse things now, my writing which you quoted was about jumping on ski flying hills like Planica, and it's about this thing now too. If we like it or not, people react differently when they see guy falling getting injured and ending unconscious with face all smashed and bloody in outrun of ski hill, then when this would be girl. Just to switch for hockey for a second... why are men allowed to play without net over face, and women are not? I think reason is same, even though I'm pretty sure those girls would love to play without them. I play hockey quite a bit and I know how annoying those nets are, even for just recreational playing (personally I love my teeth, so I play with net, even if it's annoying :)
Another, and not so unimportant, thing is number of competitors. It's hard to compare it to skeleton, which became Olympic sport in 1926. Things were a bit different at those days, and probably today, skeleton wouldn't have much chances to get into Olympics either. Afterall, they are thinking about making bob and luge competitions optional for Olympics, and they are way more popular then skeleton. But let's stay with ski jumping. As I wrote, there's maybe 40 or 50 ski jumpers on World. This year in Liberec there was 36 competitors on start. Considering there was 80 men on start, with strict qualification rules to even come to Liberec, when huge majority of jumpers didn't even qualify for WCH and was left home, you can see difference. All this really doesn't have all that much to do with human rights and discrimination, then it has to do with this, that women ski jumping is developing sport in very very early stage, and with such little base, it's realistically very hard to expect, they would accept it into Olympics program... at least in this moment. Not to mention going to court and sue IOC is not really best way to get additional points with people who decide about this things. ;)
post #40 of 125
Yes, let's boycott the Olympics, the whole CIO, how could they have preferred Golf over Inline speed skating in the summer games????
I mean, nothing against golf...but...
post #41 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonni View Post

Oh, it's only women, and who cares if they want to compete at all?   How silly to be all up in the air (no pun intended) about something so unimportant?  After all, women are not equal to men, and shouldn't be, and there are real world problems to tackle.  I'm sure we'll just shrug and go back to the kitchen, fix ya'll up a nice dinner and then knit you some socks.

It obviously doesn't bother some of the men here, but it makes me feel insignificant.  Men compete in figure skating.  What if that were considered too delicate for a man?  It's equally ludicrous.

This shouldn't be an issue.  If men can compete against each other, women should also be allowed to compete against each other in the same sport.  Perhaps more women will become involved in the sport, which is all good.  What is the harm in that?  

Sorry Bonni, but you're being a bit melodramatic here.  I just don't feel that way, and no one here is saying women are unimportant or insignificant.  I get just as pumped watching Lindsey Vonn, Julia Mancuso, Anja Paerson, Picabo, et al.  But to take the position to boycott watching the Olympics (Catskills position) is simply wrong.  After all, are these women noted here going to boycott ... nyett. 

They're going to ski like their hair's on fire and show their mettle, and in doing so support other women skiers - jumpers as best they can and say to hell with the IOC. 

I believe women should be allowed to compete and feel that with time as more women do compete in jumping, the IOC will have no choice but to let 'em jump.
Edited by Dorm57 - 9/4/09 at 9:57am
post #42 of 125
Some encouraging news for female competitors...from last season's Alpine WC, top women earned a lot more than the top men:

Prize Money Rankings 2008/2009

1  L. Vonn (1st Women)      468,502 CHF
2  M. Riesch (2nd Women)  373,000 CHF
3  J-B Grange (1st Men)      277,364 CHF

4  K. Zettel   (3rd Women)   256,560 CHF
5  B. Raich (2nd Men)         237,891 CHF
6  AL Svindal (3rd Men)       233,878 CHF

For the full list, top 15 men & women, see http://www.fis-ski.com/data/document/przr09.pdf
post #43 of 125
Mogulmuncher this comparison is not really this simple. You can't really compare Lindsey with J-B. J-B won what 2 races? while Lindsey won whole bunch of them.
Better thing to compare is money prices per specific race. I can't find this data online now, but from my (pretty bad) memory I think only races in Zagreb had same prize money for men and women. Otherwise men got more. But as I said, that's only from my memory, so it can be wrong.
post #44 of 125
Thanks for posting this!


Quote:
Originally Posted by catskills View Post

I guess its time for me to stop talking and actually do something.  My check is in the mail to help support the women ski jumpers.  Nice to see BackCountry.com is one of their sponsors.

http://www.womensskijumpingusa.com/bm/whoarewe/index.shtml

Sign the petition.
http://www.wsj2010.com/




Edited by catskills - 8/12/2009 at 01:55 pm GMT
post #45 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by primoz View Post

Mogulmuncher this comparison is not really this simple.

 

You're right, it's not really that simple, and no slight intended whatsoever on J-B, Benni or any other winners.  Just good on Lindsey & Maria for their results -- the podiums and the winnings.

Here's the link for prize money for all events:
http://www.fis-ski.com/data/document/prizm091.pdf

Interestingly, most events distribute 100,00 CHF for men & women.
post #46 of 125
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trekchick View Post

Thanks for posting this!

 


 

Your welcome TC. 

It was good to hear that Women's boxing got approved today by the IOC for next summer olympics.  NPR said today that boxing was the last summer Olympic event for men where women were not allowed to compete.   I believe this leaves Women Ski Jumping as the last Olympic event where men complete but women are not allowed to compete.  Women have been ski jumping since the 1920s.  I am not sure what the big deal is here. If the girls want to jump then let them jump.   The time has come to get past this issue and move on.  
post #47 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogulmuncher View Post
Here's the link for prize money for all events:
http://www.fis-ski.com/data/document/prizm091.pdf

Interestingly, most events distribute 100,00 CHF for men & women.
 
Thanks for this info :) I guess my memory is even worse then it was before. But I'm actually glad I was wrong, since this means women are finally getting same money for same racing.
post #48 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post




Men's ski jumping has Olympic exposure and they aren't exactly sports super stars.
Well it's massive where I live. TV ratings are consistantly in the top ten, and the broadcast rights go for major money. Even summer jumping on grass slopes gets a fair amount of attention.

And this decision is a shame, because the attention it would bring would be a huge boost. Women's biathlon, cross country skiing, alpine skiing and speed skating are all as big if not bigger than the men's competition here (due to success, obviously), and I'm sure there would be huge interest in women's ski jumping. If Munich lands the 2018 games, it would be a shame not to see women on the new jump in Garmisch-Partenkirchen.

As for 2010, what I would love to see (but is probably unrealistic) would be for Vancouver to host a non-sanctioned women's ski jumping event the week before the Olympics. It would allow the city to distance itself from the IOC decision and save face politically, and more importantly it would give the jumpers a chance to show the world what they are capable of. If a success, the IOC would have egg all over its face.

As for a boycott: no. I will watch the athletes who have worked so hard to get there and who have nothing to do with this decision. If you want to make a protest that actually counts, boycott the sponsors, not the athletes.
post #49 of 125
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ami in berlin View Post If Munich lands the 2018 games, it would be a shame not to see women on the new jump in Garmisch-Partenkirchen.
 

I agree  it would be a shame.  Unfortunately the way things are going the IOC  is doing a great job a killing women's ski jumping for future generations of women.   Some of the top women ski jumpers are running out of money.

http://www.sltrib.com/sports/ci_13027312
post #50 of 125


FIS supports inclusion of ladies Ski Jumping in Winter YOG 2012, Sochi 2014

FIS is pleased to confirm that it has re-proposed to the International Olympic Committee (IOC) to include ladies’ Ski Jumping as well as the Alpine Team Event on the program of the Olympic Winter Games in Sochi 2014, in accordance with the decisions of the FIS Congress in Vilamoura (POR) in 2006.
“FIS also welcomes the plan of the IOC to include ladies’ Ski Jumping as part of the first edition of the Winter Youth Olympic Games in Innsbruck in 2012, in order to support its development and to contribute to bringing more participants into the sport,” commented FIS President Gian Franco Kasper, head of the IOC's Coordination Commission for Innsbruck 2012.

 

From FIS Newsflash 247, 02.09.2009:

http://www.fis-ski.com/uk/news/fisnewsflash/newsflash2009.html

 

post #51 of 125
See ... who said they're banging their head against a brick wall ... maybe so, but the bricks are starting to move!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mogulmuncher View Post


FIS supports inclusion of ladies Ski Jumping in Winter YOG 2012, Sochi 2014

FIS is pleased to confirm that it has re-proposed to the International Olympic Committee (IOC) to include ladies’ Ski Jumping as well as the Alpine Team Event on the program of the Olympic Winter Games in Sochi 2014, in accordance with the decisions of the FIS Congress in Vilamoura (POR) in 2006.
“FIS also welcomes the plan of the IOC to include ladies’ Ski Jumping as part of the first edition of the Winter Youth Olympic Games in Innsbruck in 2012, in order to support its development and to contribute to bringing more participants into the sport,” commented FIS President Gian Franco Kasper, head of the IOC's Coordination Commission for Innsbruck 2012.

 

From FIS Newsflash 247, 02.09.2009:

http://www.fis-ski.com/uk/news/fisnewsflash/newsflash2009.html

 

post #52 of 125
40-50 competitive female ski jumpers at Continental Cup level

As far as I am concerned this is the problem. Too few athletes to justify competing at world level. It is as ridiculous as watching rythmic gymnastics at the summer olympics. And I see no men complaining about the fact that there are no men in rythmic gymanstics or synchronized swimming, for that matter.

So as unfair as it seems, I do not think this is about holding women back. Women's ski jumping has to grow in popularity to earn a place in Olympics.

Not watching the Olympics for this reason is beyond ridiculous.
post #53 of 125
I think that there are a lot of high running passions in this issue. Here's how I see it, and my opinion on it. First off, I am all for women ski jumping in the Olympics. However, the lack of top level competitors makes the IOC's decision to not to include it in next year's Games a logical one. As was already said, there currently isn't enough participation to form a WC circuit. However, as was also already said, there are tons of junior level female jumpers coming up. So focus energy on developing a talent base that will be sufficient to form a viable WC circuit. Once that happens, there is no way it shouldn't be in the Games. At that time, I'll gladly call foul on the IOC.

Also, I agree that to call this a 'human rights issue' is a massive overreaction. Is it an inequity? Yes. But skiing is not a human right. Not a single one of us has the inalienable right to ski.
post #54 of 125
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by freeski919 View Post

Also, I agree that to call this a 'human rights issue' is a massive overreaction. Is it an inequity? Yes. But skiing is not a human right. Not a single one of us has the inalienable right to ski.
Millions of Canada's tax payer's dollars was spent building the Olympic ski jump.  Many of those tax payer dollars was paid for by women.  Call it what you want. This is not right.
post #55 of 125
And who says it's not a man's world?  We've come a long way but still have a to break down quite a few barriers.
Joanne
post #56 of 125
Tom, you bring up a valid point about the number of competitors.  Thanks for the different perspective.
Do you think the IOC is also thinking about ratings when they made this decision?
post #57 of 125
I would guess that the IOC is not thinking about rating, but the TV Networks that carry Olympic coverage are thinking about rating all the time. Advertising is paying for all that, so they want to carry events that draw huge viewerships so that they can charge big $$ for advertising.
post #58 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomB View Post

I would guess that the IOC is not thinking about rating, but the TV Networks that carry Olympic coverage are thinking about rating all the time. Advertising is paying for all that, so they want to carry events that draw huge viewerships so that they can charge big $$ for advertising.

Praise %DEITY% for national, non-advertising-funded TV channels that consider the Olympics important enough that the entire population should have access without forking out extra $pondoolic$.
post #59 of 125
I suspect the best thing that the women's ski jumping community can do is have the top competitors present and visible in Vancouver/Whistler.  Do interviews.  Be positive and charismatic.  Cheer on the men without envy and be quoted as confident that they'll be competing in 2014.  The positive effect would be massive.  The ball is already in motion, just keep it moving.  The legal/antagonistic approach ran out of time or simply didn't work.  Time to switch gears.
post #60 of 125
I swam for high school, AAU, and college teams....Olympic sports get a tremendous boost with participation after an Olympics. An obscure sport can become popular overnight if they are an Olympic sport.
As for not having a competition because you think a competitor might get hurt.....puh-leeze, you could kiss pretty much any team sport that involves contact "good-bye" with that logic
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