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Breasts Barred From 2010 Olympic Ski Jumping

post #1 of 125
Thread Starter 
If you don't have male genitalia, then you are not ski jumping in 2010 Winter Olympics in BC. 

If the women can't jump in the 2010 Olympics , then this will be the first time in my life time that I will not watch the Winter Olympics.    Personally I would hope that everyone would boycott the Olympics if the IOC doesn't change their ruling.

The ruling means that the ski jumper who holds the distance record on the K95 "normal hill" in Vancouver won't get to compete at the games. Lindsey Van, 24, of Park City, Utah, has jumped farther than any man on the Olympic hill.

Lindsey Van will watch on television as men try to beat her record at February's games. She's looking ahead to 2014, but she's not sure she can last that long in the sport given the lack of financial support for non-Olympic athletes. 

If the women can't jump and the men beat Lindsey Van's record, what do you think the first question the reporters are going to ask the male ski jumper?

This defeats what the Olympic competition is all about. 

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=106486162

Breasts Barred from 2010 Olympic Ski Jumping
<< watch the video at the bottom. 



Edited by catskills - 8/9/2009 at 06:48 pm GMT

T-Square: Added the video to the post.
post #2 of 125
Such is the IOC.  Traditionally a very stogy group of chauvinists, even the women involved there.  Politics in sports   .

Don't know that much about women's Nordic jumping; but if Van holds the hill record is gender that big of a deal in jumping? 

Would it be reasonable for the women to compete against the men?  From an uninformed perspective would seem this is an event where being lighter would be an advantage.  You want to be a kite up there right? 

Would really be neat to see an Olympic event (other than curling) where men and women can compete against each other on equal footing.
post #3 of 125
I have no interest in seeing men compete against women . Having women compete in all the same but separate events as men do is only fair.  Women and men have advantages in some sports because of their general differences.  Competing against each other would open a large can of worms  better left sealed .

As long as old men make the rules then changes of chauvinism will not occur very soon.


BTW Women have genitalia. You just gotta look very close. Go give it a try.


Edited by GarryZ - 8/9/2009 at 10:47 pm GMT
post #4 of 125
 I'm sure there are sports that only women compete in. Big deal.
post #5 of 125
No, I won't boycott watching all the dedicated athletes who have put years of their lives into reaching the Olympics because of this ruling. It sucks that things are as they are, but ignoring the good to protest the evil is kinda throwing the baby out with the bathwater, and that would be a silly thing to do.
post #6 of 125
This issue was never about women competing against men.  It was about the women's jumping event not being included at these games.
post #7 of 125
 To me this is like Etchells sailors complaining about not being in the Olympics. Solings are, if you want to go to the Olympics sail a Soling. Women have many opportunities to compete in the Olympics. Ski jumping is not one of them.
post #8 of 125
I think they should let her jump against the men.  Are they trying to say that a woman's body shape makes a better airfoil than a man's?  Anyway, the let these guys jump, why not let Lindsey Van?


post #9 of 125
That sucks!! Let women jump!!
post #10 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarryZ View Post

I have no interest in seeing men compete against women . Having women compete in all the same but separate events as men do is only fair.  Women and men have advantages in some sports because of their general differences.  Competing against each other would open a large can of worms  better left sealed .

As long as old men make the rules then changes of chauvinism will not occur very soon.


BTW Women have genitalia. You just gotta look very close. Go give it a try.


Edited by GarryZ - 8/9/2009 at 10:47 pm GMT edit unclear  Added 'separate events 'to make my point clearer
post #11 of 125
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by volantaddict View Post

No, I won't boycott watching all the dedicated athletes who have put years of their lives into reaching the Olympics because of this ruling. It sucks that things are as they are, but ignoring the good to protest the evil is kinda throwing the baby out with the bathwater, and that would be a silly thing to do.

Let me try this again.  I think that everyone should boycott WATCHING the 2010 Olympics.  Let the athletes compete.  Let their family members and close friends watch them compete.  Let them record the events.  If nobody else watches them I think the IOC will have no choice to take Human Rights into Consideration in future games.  After all its all about the money isn't it. 

Hell  Boycott NBC for showing Olympic games that violates Human Rights.    NBC has a contract to show the games.  They just won't make any money on advertising.  .    You don't think this will put some pressure on the IOC to change their ways.

Edited by catskills - 8/9/2009 at 11:59 pm GMT
post #12 of 125

Lindsey's father Barry. lives just up the street from me.  They have been lobbying & battling for womens jumping in the Olympics for many years.  It is really sad, as Ski Jumping has been around since the first Winter Olympics in 1924 at Chamonix.  So many new events have been added over the years, that didn't even exist when Winter Olympics began.  These ladies have trained long & hard, just as the men have.  Let's hope they get it in for 2014.
 IOC.
JF

post #13 of 125
I bet Eddie The Eagle had his eye on the breasts when he run off the runway....

Classic!
post #14 of 125
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nfp158 View Post

I bet Eddie The Eagle had his eye on the breasts when he run off the runway....

Classic!


Vinko Bogataj was the agony of defeat guy that ran off the the ski jump. 

Eddie the Eagle was a ski jumper from Great Britain.  Actually he was the only cool dude from Great Britain that had enough guts to ski jump at the time. 

Edwards qualified, as the sole British applicant, for the 1988 Winter Olympics ski-jumping competition. He had previously represented Great Britain at the 1987 World Championships, and was ranked 55th in the world. Eddie began jumping under the watchful eye of Chuck Berghorn in Lake Placid, NY, using his equipment though he had to wear six layers of socks to make the boots fit.  Another problem was that he was very short sighted, requiring him to wear his glasses at all times,

At the closing ceremony the president of the Games singled him out for his contribution: "At this Games some competitors have won gold, some have broken records and one has even flown like an eagle." At that moment, 100,000 people in the stadium roared 'Eddie! Eddie!'. It was the first time in the history of the games that an individual athlete had been mentioned in the closing speech

In response to the Edwards phenomenon, in 1990, the International Olympic Committee (IOC) instituted what became known as the Eddie the Eagle Rule, which requires Olympic hopefuls to compete in international events and place in the top 30 percent or the top 50 competitors, whichever is the lesser.

Eddie the Eagle was an endangered species. Darwin came close to claiming yet another victim.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_%22The_Eagle%22_Edwards


Edited by catskills - 8/10/2009 at 10:48 pm GMT
post #15 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by catskills View Post

If you don't have male genitalia, then you are not ski jumping in 2010 Winter Olympics in BC. 

These things are a bit different, then presented in media. Realistically, women ski jumping doesn't really exist as real sport. There's less then 40 or 50 women ski jumpers on whole World, so this is main reason why IOC doesn't go for it. It's nothing against women, or anything like this, but realistically there's bunch of other sport disciplines which have way more potential, and are still not included into Olympics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by catskills View Post

The ruling means that the ski jumper who holds the distance record on the K95 "normal hill" in Vancouver won't get to compete at the games. Lindsey Van, 24, of Park City, Utah, has jumped farther than any man on the Olympic hill.

Hill records are not same thing as for example 100m running World record. With ski jumping it depends on inrun height and on conditions. Most of hill records are actually held by nordic combined guys and not ski jumpers. Why? Simply because they let them go down from much higher inruns then they do on ski jumping races. I'm pretty sure same thing was with Lindsey and her hill record. There's huge difference if your inrun speed is around 90km/h or around 95km/h, and that's normally difference they have between ski jumping races and nordic combined races.
So holding hill record doesn't mean she would actually be better then someone else with same inrun speed ;)
post #16 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by catskills View Post




Let me try this again.  I think that everyone should boycott WATCHING the 2010 Olympics.  Let the athletes compete.  Let their family members and close friends watch them compete.  Let them record the events.  If nobody else watches them I think the IOC will have no choice to take Human Rights into Consideration in future games.  After all its all about the money isn't it. 


Let me try this again, NO.  I see no reason to boycott watching the Olympics. I see no discrimination here, just a very small group of competitors that don't represent a large enough contingent to justify an Olympic competition, and some oversensitive folks blowing things way out of proportion in a PC tantrum.

Referring to this as a human rights issue cheapens the meaning of the term, there is no harm being done to anyone, no torture, nothing needful for a fruitful life is being denied.

Please lay off of the hyperbole, it's just plain silly.
post #17 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by primoz View Post




These things are a bit different, then presented in media. Realistically, women ski jumping doesn't really exist as real sport. There's less then 40 or 50 women ski jumpers on whole World, so this is main reason why IOC doesn't go for it. It's nothing against women, or anything like this, but realistically there's bunch of other sport disciplines which have way more potential, and are still not included into Olympics.

 

40-50 competitive female ski jumpers at Continental Cup level (since there's no WC for them yet). However, the sport is growing and the success of e.g. Anette Sagen is inspiring young Norwegian girls to venture into what has traditionally been a boys' stronghold. Those 40-50 competitors were enough to put female ski jumping on the program at this year's Nordic World Championships. Yet still they have to fight for the right to jump on the big hills like Planica and Vikersund. They have been discriminated against at every step of the way - the old farts running FIS don't believe girls can do it and they don't want them upsetting the apple cart - and the best means the girls have of making progress is by proving they can jump and embarassing the hell out of the establishment.

The IOC make their case that too few nations are represented, and that there are too few top level competitors. That may be a fair assessment, but it sure as hell smarts given the fight these girls have had to get where they are today. With olympic exposure women's ski jumping could receive a huge boost, in recruitment, sponsorship... the whole kit and caboodle. Sadly that ain't gonna happen in 2010 :(
post #18 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squawker View Post
Yet still they have to fight for the right to jump on the big hills like Planica and Vikersund.
I can easily be wrong about this, so take this as my opinion only, nothing more. I was never in Vikersund, but I have been shooting ski flying WC in Planica for years, and I saw many a bit less experienced jumpers making smaller mistakes ending in ER, or even finishing their career due consequences of single small mistake... Mistake, which wouldn't even "qualify" for fall in normal hills.
From this what I saw on women races, I admit I saw only 2 or 3 of them, I can say they are technically far from Continental cup men jumpers, and even further from World cup jumpers. So with something like this, I can understand somehow, they don't want to see them on big flying hills. Imagine worse thing happens and you have 5 almost dead girls on end of race. And falling somewhere around 100m mark in Planica is not nice. Unfortunately I have seen this, and it takes whole bunch of thumbling down the 40+ degrees icy hill, most of times with jumper being unconcious. So it's definitely not nice sight, and definitely not something you want to show to people around the world, as representation of particular sport.
Another issue is flying 220 or 230m. I really doubt most of girls are capable of doing this, even with higher inrun speed. I believe there are 2 or 3 of them capable of doing this, but to have at least kinda safe race, you have to consider inrun speed to be proper for huge majority of them, not for 2 or 3 best ones. This way you would most likely get jumps around 120 or 130m, which is something noone will come to see. And as someone said, it really is all about the money.... if we like it or not.
post #19 of 125
Planica is a monster - no doubt about that. Bjørn Einar Romøren is a local hero - I can't imagine jumping 239m

Vikersund is also K-185 with the hill size being 207m. The official record is 219m, but Børge Blikeng jumped 220,5m as forejumper earlier this year. Several of the girls were due to be forejumpers on the same day as Blikeng, but the jury denied them after being scared by Blikeng's jump. The next day Anette Sagen jumped 177m, although she admittedly fell on landing.

Conclusion? I'm not sure. The best girls are jumping 40-50m short of the longest men's jumps on a flying hill like Vikersund. They're only 20-30m behind the "average" men, and they're clearing the hill safely. Maybe Planica is still a little way off for them - it likely won't happen during Lindsey Van's or Anette Sagen's active career. But it will happen.


Correction: it was the TD who crossed the girls off the start list, not a jury decision. Lindsey Van (US), Jessica Jerome (US), Anette Sagen (NO) and Line Jahr (NO) were all due to jump that day.


Edited by Squawker - 8/11/2009 at 11:07 am GMT
post #20 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squawker View Post

With olympic exposure women's ski jumping could receive a huge boost, in recruitment, sponsorship... the whole kit and caboodle. Sadly that ain't gonna happen in 2010 :( 
 

Men's ski jumping has Olympic exposure and they aren't exactly sports super stars.
post #21 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by volantaddict View Post

Referring to this as a human rights issue cheapens the meaning of the term, there is no harm being done to anyone, no torture, nothing needful for a fruitful life is being denied. 

Please lay off of the hyperbole, it's just plain silly.
 

Wow. I agree with VA. This ain't exactly Darfur.
post #22 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post




Men's ski jumping has Olympic exposure and they aren't exactly sports super stars.

That's a very US perspective. Round these parts they're considered sports stars on a level with alpine skiers, though I guess jumping isn't as lucrative (do we only measure success in $$ ?) The Four Hills Tournament at new year probably has more viewers than the alpine World Cup, and the turn out of spectators in Austria and southern Germany is huge for these events.

You lot "over there" (I'm generalizing, ok?) might not know of Simon Amman, Janne Ahonen, Andi Goldberger, Matti Nykänen, Gregor Schlirenzauer, Bjørn Einar Romøren, Jens Weissflog, Adam Małsyz, Thomas Morgenstern, to name but a few.... but they're super stars in Scandinavia and Central Europe.
post #23 of 125
Oh, "Breasts Barred"!

I read that incorrectly........................

Now that would be an interesting event!
post #24 of 125
I actually agree with Squawker. To be honest, I'm too lazy to go and search data, but out of my memory, I would say Schmitt earned more in his best years then any alpine skier. So ski jumping is not really so obscure sport as someone might think.
post #25 of 125
Thread Starter 
Ski jumping was extremely popular in the past.  The Bear Mountain State Park ski jump near NY City was extremely popular.  I don't know if women were excluded from jumping at Bear Mountain. I have never seen any photos of women jumping at Bear Mountain State Park. 




Here we are today at the cross roads of letting women fly.    Its a little late but I guess it will get there.

http://www.womensskijumpingusa.com/

post #26 of 125
Thread Starter 
I guess its time for me to stop talking and actually do something.  My check is in the mail to help support the women ski jumpers.  Nice to see BackCountry.com is one of their sponsors.

http://www.womensskijumpingusa.com/bm/whoarewe/index.shtml

Sign the petition.
http://www.wsj2010.com/




Edited by catskills - 8/12/2009 at 01:55 pm GMT
post #27 of 125
I'm all for baring breasts at the Olympics...oh wait you said barr....that sucks......let's start a petition for baring not barring
post #28 of 125
Oh, it's only women, and who cares if they want to compete at all?   How silly to be all up in the air (no pun intended) about something so unimportant?  After all, women are not equal to men, and shouldn't be, and there are real world problems to tackle.  I'm sure we'll just shrug and go back to the kitchen, fix ya'll up a nice dinner and then knit you some socks.

It obviously doesn't bother some of the men here, but it makes me feel insignificant.  Men compete in figure skating.  What if that were considered too delicate for a man?  It's equally ludicrous.

This shouldn't be an issue.  If men can compete against each other, women should also be allowed to compete against each other in the same sport.  Perhaps more women will become involved in the sport, which is all good.  What is the harm in that?  
post #29 of 125
Thread Starter 
Bonnie as a guy I am really shocked at some of the comments here.  I thought I would get more support here.

This is the 2010 Winter Olympics and we still have wide spread human rights issues within the IOC.  Its extremely sad that their are so many excuses for the IOC's behavior even here in this thread

Here is a video from the last Winter Olympics 4 years ago.  Nothing has changed in 4 years.

http://www.wsjusa.com/abc.htm

These girls have worked damn hard for their sports.  They deserve a chance. 

http://www.youtube.com/user/likealeaf
post #30 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by catskills View Post

I guess its time for me to stop talking and actually do something.  My check is in the mail to help support the women ski jumpers.  Nice to see BackCountry.com is one of their sponsors.

http://www.womensskijumpingusa.com/bm/whoarewe/index.shtml

Sign the petition.
http://www.wsj2010.com/


Doing my very small part, I signed the petition.  Thanks for posting.
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