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why don't I like "mid-fats"?

post #1 of 10
Thread Starter 
New poster here - I've spent some time in the archived messages but haven't found the advice I want (yet)
I've been demo-ing skis this year and have been strangely disappointed by the "mid fat" category. I've been on the x-screams and the new vertigo motion. For me their mogul performance is poorer than the p40 platinum or my traditional fischer rc4 gs skis. I can't keep my line as well in these midfat skis. After a half dozen moguls in a fairly steep field I get out of the line and up on the moguls where it is actually still possible to turn but it is just not fun as I feel the hill is skiing me rather than me skiing the hill. Of course when your feet are together the tips override on these skis but I seemed to get out of that after my second day on the vertigo motions. In glades, on really steep areas and gentle slopes I feel comfortable on all three types of skis. I haven't got the carving down on the mid-fats yet but that may take more than a couple days on the skis to master.
So I'd like some comments - should I suck it up and just learn to love a mid-fat or go with a standard "shape" ski
post #2 of 10
Thread Starter 
I bet you are asking "why didn't this newbie post this in the ski gear forum?" Well I guess what I was looking for was technique tips on how to get the most out of "mid-fats" and if there are none I stay on the narrow boards.
post #3 of 10
welcome aboard treehugger.

It's a legit question. My first reaction is that mid-fats aren't bump skis. So of course they won't feel as good in the bumps as your P40s or RC4s. They also won't carve as easily as your other skis. They are mostly meant for when you are skiing IN snow, rather than ON snow. Powder and crud are where they excel. They will work in other conditions, but it's not their forte. With some more time on them, you can probably get comfortable in other conditions, but if you spend most of your time carving and in bumps, and don't like the feel of mid-fats, then bag that idea and stick with the narrower waisted skis.
post #4 of 10
Welcome aboard Treehugger.
I agree with JohnH.
If you are going to stay on piste, carve, and run bumps a mid fat is probably not the best ski for you. That being said, I ski the X Scream series all over the hill. They do not excel in the bumps but I think I do pretty good. A lot has to do with technique. Work on speed control in the bumps with a quiet upper body (active and passive absorbtion). also work on "skiing the slow line fast" in tight arcs on groomed snow. These 2 skills I found helped me a great deal with mid fats in the bumps..<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by dchan (edited April 06, 2001).]</FONT>
post #5 of 10

I agree that mid's blow in the bumps compared to a more traditional straight ski. But I disagree about the carving aspect. Pending on which mid you try they all have different qualities. Try a K2 Mod. I think they are one of the better carving mid's out there.
One tip about switching from a straight to a mid is that the first couple of times you will overwork the ski. The new shapes of skiing do not require as much rotation for intitiating or completing a turn. Go out and try to be lazy, set them on edge and let them do the work. Soon you will get the feel of the ski and how much you have to put into it. Best way to describ it? POWER STEERING.
But again, if you want to ski bumps all the time a mid is not your answer.
K2 produced a BUMP ski this season called the POWER MAMBA 84/64/74, compare that to a 'shaped' ski @ 99/65/88 and then a mid @ 107/70/97. The bump ski is super skinny for todays standards and uses for the most part old SL ski dimension with less sidecut.
If you want a bump ski go to a ski swap next fall and find some older standard SL skis.
You'll be able to get them cheap, then you'll be able to afford that Mid fat for the rest of the mountain and for pow days.
You will not see many bump specific boards next year. All of this action is being moved into the pipe twiners and those skis for the most part have the same dimensions as a mid.
post #6 of 10
Thread Starter 
Excellent advice. I like the idea to ski the slow line fast - my current practice is much the opposite where I pick the steepest line and try to maintain supreme control.
Now getting back to technique. My issue with these mid-fats is that they are supposed to do well with short radius turns. Moguls seem like the epitome of short radius turns but I bet that is dead wrong. Mogul turns are short arcs of long radius turns. Thus mid-fats will perform much differently in moguls than I expected. I give em one more try with this new mind set.
post #7 of 10
Gonz and treehugger
I guess my goal in bumps is a little different than most. I am trying to learn to Carve through the bumps for the most part so the 2 things I pointed out to you will lead you in that direction not zipperline skiing of the bumps like most people are talking about. The shape of the bumps will also "exaggerate" the turning radius of the ski too. Still, not a great bump ski but you should be able to enjoy them in the bumps and all over the rest of the hill as well..

Just me ramblin on again.
post #8 of 10
Gentlemen! Gentlemen! You will find everyone has an opinion about the mid-fats or shaped ski. instead of listening every Tom, Dick, and Harry on the mountain I checked at the top. i.e. various ski vendors, pros, etc. You might want to check the article on these skis written by Tod Murcheson who has worn about every ski hat in the industry. The article is called "Myths about the Shaped skis". This is at www.snotech.com.
If you are going to ski the bumps use a shaped ski with a cut around 14mm, not too much more. I would also suggest one with a 'Y' shape insead of a hour glass shape. A ski with a very wide tail will lock you into a turn. It is very easy to catch a tail in the bumps. The 'Y' shape will have a tail a bit narrower than the tip. i.e. tip to tail- 109-68-96.
The only drawback to the shaped ski is bullet proof iced hill with an incline greater than 45°. The shovel and tail tend to catch but the mid doesn't.
Reading all your posts I gather all of you are fine skiers. Whenever I disagree with others I run the risk of getting slammed. <G> However, if you consider what I posted here with my dtails you might reconsider or at least check it out. I do see the wisdom of not getting a too radical sidecut. Anyway, a bit less forward knee pressure might help. Too much forward knee pressure and the ski wants to dig in and turn when you might not want it to! I had to change my style a bit when I went to my Mod's.
post #9 of 10
Treehugger- On carving, try less forward knee pressure. I am sure by now you have found that if you put as muc forward knee pressure on these as you used to do on your straights, you can end up cutting cookies! Right? I did! <G>
For carving try the "phantom move'. During your turn lift the inside ski ever so slightly and curling your ankle inward toward your other leg, bringing the ski up to the other ski. Try it by exagerating this move. When learned, it is hardly noticable. It's a twist of perhaps only a few millimeters. It is so slight that others won't even be able to tell that you're doing it.
BTW- put your skis apart just a bit. It's not as pretty but it is stable. (Even in the bumps) Try this... Stand with your skis together and have a buddy push you hard from the side, hitting your shoulder. You almost fall! Now, separate your skis about 6 inches apart. Have your buddy do it again. You are rock hard solid! Right? My instructor in bump school taught us this. And remember, in the bumps... comporession- extension!
post #10 of 10
Thread Starter 
First - Let me thank all those who had advice.
Second - I purchased these skis so now I have to love them
Third - I figured out how to ski the bumps in them. The advice about rolling the ankles is where it is at (for me). When carving, a slow roll of the ankles will engage the tip of the ski. In the bumps you roll the ankle to change direction but you engage the snow right underfoot. The slow roll of the carve just won't do it - in the bumps you really need to snap the ankle to change direction.
Last - I'll work on a review for these skis (Volkl Vertigo Motion) and put it into one of the other bboards in September or October.
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