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R/R funshapes - do they differ and how?

post #1 of 10
Thread Starter 
I was really hesitant to start this thread over at TGR (nobody wants to get JONGified for no reason) but I do believe there is a need for it so I started it here.
There are quite a lot of options in the R/R field and quite a lot of reviews of those skis but I haven't really found any comparative data.
So if you have skied any two or more of the following skis please feel free to post comments and share this experience with  people. It'd be really interesting to see how they differ when compared to each other and not to traditionally shaped fat skis.
Thanks.

P.S.: the list of R/R:
1) Lotus 138
2) Praxis PowderBoards
3) Donner Party
4)ARG 
5) Spatula
6) Protest
7)any other R/R I forgot to mention.
post #2 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by apeyros View Post

I was really hesitant to start this thread over at TGR (nobody wants to get JONGified for no reason) but I do believe there is a need for it so I started it here.
There are quite a lot of options in the R/R field and quite a lot of reviews of those skis but I haven't really found any comparative data.
So if you have skied any two or more of the following skis please feel free to post comments and share this experience with  people. It'd be really interesting to see how they differ when compared to each other and not to traditionally shaped fat skis.
Thanks.

P.S.: the list of R/R:
1) Lotus 138
2) Praxis PowderBoards
3) Donner Party
4)ARG 
5) Spatula
6) Protest
7)any other R/R I forgot to mention.
 

These skis are significantly different. In-fact the terms used to describe the skis can cause confusion and arguments. To put things in prospective;

Not all of the above skis are reverse camber and reverse side-cut.
Most current skis avoid a continuous reverse camber and reverse side-cut as manufacturers try make the skis more useful on firmer snow.


The skis listed are intended primarily for soft snow such as powder, crud and corn. The skis are much easier to turn and stop in deep snow than a conventional ski, so I think they improve safety. However they do encourage higher speeds which can lead to issues if the run has many hazards. The skis work well on very steep slopes. They are also great on low angle powder runs, they don't sink and stop the way that a 90 to 105 mm wide conventional powder ski can.



I own 3 fat skis, the 194cm Fischer Watea 101, Volant Spatula and the Praxis Protest. The Watea is a great powder ski, easy to use, great float and very good on hardpack. This ski is much better at resorts than the R/R skis, even on an epic powder day.
 
The Praxis protest has some positive camber under the bindings and a little side-cut, its dims are 132-137-130-131-124 . Both the Praxis and the Volant are easier to use in powder than the Watea (and the Watea is easier to use than almost any normal ski this size). The R/R skis swivel underfoot easily and feel like a slalom ski. These skis allow me to sit upright without tip-dive, so I don't exhaust myself sitting back. These skis can stop on a dime. More like using a snowboard in powder than normal skis.

The Spatula is best on very steep slopes and in the trees, It's easiest to turn quickly, but is less stable at speed. The ski has a continuous negative camber and you will feel like your standing on a saucer on firmer snow. It has a huge amount of negative camber, so it wants to turn and does not like going straight. If trees are involved, there is no better ski made.

The Praxis is new to me, but I expect it to be more stable at speed but less quick to turn. It may need more care in changing snow, say when going from from sun-crust to fresh powder. It should float better in smoke-like-powder, it's wider and has a lot more surface than the Spatula. This can be good or bad, the Spatula will provide face shots, the Praxis might not. 

The Watea is very good also. More stable than the Spatula but more difficult to turn than both the Praxis and Spats. The Watea is really soft flexing, It floats like mad but is not super solid in crud or funky snow. 

Hope that helped.



Edited by WILDCAT - 8/2/2009 at 09:05 pm GMT
post #3 of 10
Thread Starter 
Good input, Wildcat! Thanks.
How do those skis behave in powder compared to the semi-funshapes/pintails like lotus 120 or Lhasa Pow? 
post #4 of 10
 add the Icelantic Shaman to the list. 
post #5 of 10
Thread Starter 
Sorry, but the Shaman's look just like a verrry fat slalom ski to me, not a R/R at all 
post #6 of 10
In what way? It is an extreme  pintail -- but is not in the "funshape" universe. It has no rocker. No reverse camber. No hint of even hybridized reverse sidecut or early taper.

It may make for fun skiing and an interesting discussion vs less tapered skis, but IMO falls very much in the conventional ski camp wrt to this discussion.

OTOH, The Lotus 120 and Lhasa have notable tip rocker and clearly distinguish themselves as being in the hybrid rocker funshape camp.

edit: just noticed that apeyros beat me to it by a few minutes on the Shaman observation. I'm curious about whether or not the Icelantic folks will be able to incorporate rocker in a sensible way...

Edited by spindrift - 8/2/2009 at 09:59 pm GMT
post #7 of 10
How much tip & tail rocker?

I took 4 skis and slid an envelope to see there the ski first makes contact with the floor. The skis are positioned by the boot location;



I did the same at the tail;



The Spatula and the Protest. The Spatula provides about 42cm of floor contact, the Protest 106cm ;



The Protest and the Watea 101. The Protest provides 106cm of floor contact, the Watea 163cm.






Edited by WILDCAT - 8/2/2009 at 10:38 pm GMT
post #8 of 10
Nice illustration, Michael.
post #9 of 10
Sidecut & taper, how much?

I describe the sidecut of the three skis in these terms: The Watea is conventional and deep, with 10mm of taper. The Protest is torpedo-like and straight, with 13mm of taper. The Spatula is teardrop-like and slightly round with 10mm of taper.


The tips of the Watea and the Protest. The Watea quickly narrows from 134mm to 122mm in 11 inches, the Protest stays wide at 137mm for this section;



The tails of the Watea and the Protest. The Watea flares out from 112mm to 124mm over 11 inches. The Protest pintails from 131mm to 128mm.



The tips of the Protest and the Spatula. The Spatula slowly widens from 122mm to 125mm in 11 inches, the Protest stays wide at 137mm for this section;



The tails of the Protest and the Spatula. The  Spatula pintails from 120mm to 115mm over 11 inches. The Protest pintails from 131mm to 128mm.

post #10 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by bumpfreaq View Post

Nice illustration, Michael.

Thanks, BF

Fun shapes can be discribed by a few characteristics;

How much rocker
How wide
How much taper
How much sidecut

Michael
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