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My New Custom GS Skis... - Page 2

post #31 of 80
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by U.P. Racer View Post

I think this is my favorite line.
 

Well, I have had a handful of skis where the plate is off center by one or two millimeters to the left or right, and some plates that are mounted slightly crooked, etc.
post #32 of 80
Thread Starter 
My camera died on me before I could take more...



post #33 of 80
Thread Starter 
Update: Started to shape the sidewalls/topsheets. The topsheet material is PERFECT to work with when using files and sandpaper. Finish is very smooth, and required very little effort to get nice and smooth.
post #34 of 80
This thread reminds me of "The Natural" where the guy hand carves his baseball bat from a tree that was struck by lightning then rules the sport with it.

Be sure to post your race results this winter.  We're all pulling for you kid
post #35 of 80
Thread Starter 
I got a few good runs in today on the skis at Sunday River (was up there for a SL race, and lets just say I was more interested in the GS skis than the SL race). They felt just like my old GS skis, aside from the fact that they didn't really want to flex. At one point I found an empty icy groomer, and hit mach speeds. They felt like SG skis, yet they are 186's. I'll definately be racing on them this year for some of the Okemo GS races. Not too sure about some of the more technical races, but they seem like they will do fine in the fast and flats.
post #36 of 80
Sounds like we could have gone without the carbon.....


Can you get the bindings to a 325 BSL? I'll be home for about a week around X-mass and would love to get out on these to see if a heavier ( I outweigh Patrick by at least 50 pounds) skier can flex them.

They should get softer as you use them too.
post #37 of 80
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by krp8128 View Post

Sounds like we could have gone without the carbon.....


Can you get the bindings to a 325 BSL? I'll be home for about a week around X-mass and would love to get out on these to see if a heavier ( I outweigh Patrick by at least 50 pounds) skier can flex them.

They should get softer as you use them too.

Yea, the plates go up to 340mm. Sunday River or Sugarloaf?
post #38 of 80
Depends on snow conditions and where I can get the better deal...
post #39 of 80
Thread Starter 
1st race this weekend at Okemo... I don't have my Nordica GS skis yet, so it looks like I'm racing on the customs.
post #40 of 80
I just started to follow this post and I think its really cool. Owning a unique ski, which was custom built to your specs is great. I hope the ski exceeds your highest expectations and you have great success on it.  Your enthusiasm is wonderful and these skis I 'm going to bet will end up providing you with great memories. Never get rid of them and the picture you took holding them. It's priceless and will be great to look back on many yeas from now. A great memory in the making.

Trust me as I am a good bit older than you are, as skiers we never forget things like this. Like the movie Citizen Kane and Rosebud. Those skis will become a part of your skiing history.
post #41 of 80
Thread Starter 
Skied at Loon and Okemo this weekend... got some good turns in at Loon. The skis take a little to get used to, but once you get a hang of them the run relatively fine. Had alot of fun on Walking Boss; the skis could handle SG style turns without an issue, and felt completely stable. GS turning takes work, and is relatively fatiguing after a few runs, but non the less is still fun.

I had my first race earlier today on them, and luckily the course was a fast set. Some tight stuff at the top to begin with, but nice big SG/GS turns in the midsection and bottom. The skis held real well at the icy top, and I was able to hold a tuck at the beginning for some time. Some issues when the pitch opened up, but after a line adjustment I was fine.

About halfway down the track, the skis really started to pick up. They were starting to flex a decent amount. Then, about 15 gates from the finish, I got pretty low on a gate. The skis snapped back at me right at the apex of the turn. I went airborn, spent sometime upside down, then introduced myself to a gate panel. I slid quite a ways before coming to a stop. Neither of the skis came off on me. My knee is a tad sore, but everything else is ok. The skis didn't get damaged at all throughout the entire ordeal.

My fall looked something like this...

http://www.universalsports.com/video/assetid=c114bcf3-0a63-4366-9e25-5ff51cfde722.html#fanara+flipped+during+beaver+creek+gs
post #42 of 80
They look great, good luck.
post #43 of 80
Thread Starter 
From my facebook snowbook:

Day #6 Pats Peak

First time on snow since my knee injury last week. Skiing felt good, especially on hard ice with razor sharp edges.

I took a half a dozen runs on the GS boards, and I think I am really getting them set for the season. I had a nice fall on Twister, I went to set an edge on some uneven snow and the one of the skis wasn't flexed fully. I slid for some time before stopping. After a few runs they really started to ski well, once I started to apply proper technique, which the skis demand like no other race ski. If I do happen to get a pair of normal racestock GS skis I feel that skiing on the customs will help a ton. I remember being able to cruise around last year and skiing lazily on my GS skis during training. Can't do that with the customs, they make you work a ton to get down the hill in a neat and orderly fashion. I'll decide tomorrow if I'll be shredding it up at Loon on Saturday to piss some club and academy kids off.
Edited by Rise To The Top - 12/30/09 at 10:37pm
post #44 of 80
Thread Starter 
From my facebook snowbook:

Day #7 Loon Mountain

Nice blue sunny skies, but no sun on the mountain... but we are talking about Loon here. Went up for some freeskiing to get back into it a bit more, and to see if racing would be worth it over the weekend. After a handful of runs on Loon's race trail(s) (Upper Rumrunner.../Coolidge Street), I decided to pull my entry for Saturday's race. The trail seemed very unprepared for a race. Very bumpy, lots of unnecessary terrain. Almost felt like skiing constant powder whales that needed to be plowed and flattened. If I had my 180cm 21m Racetigers that I had last year I would have stayed in the race, but my current GS skis (the customs) don't have the flex that such a bumpy trail would require. Trying to carve a clean arc was pretty damn difficult, as the second that a knoll was hit, the ski would come out of its flex and loose edge grip. Looks like I need clean terrain to use these skis on, much like Okemo's race trails (Chief or Wardance) or Sugarloaf's Narrow Gauge. After 6 or 7 runs on the customs, I jumped on the my 175 Tigershark 12fts tuned to a .5 degree base and a 4 degree side. Oh man, the RIPPED today. Very very fun to ski on. Overall, not a bad day. I'll probably be back to Pat's tomorrow to ski with my sister and cousin, and maybe Crotched if someone feels like joining me. SG/DH training starts next week at Okemo and Sunapee, can't wait!
post #45 of 80
Thread Starter 
From my facebook snowbook:

Day #11 Mount Sunapee

DH/SG training/testing! I got a total of 20 runs on DH and SG skis today, 5 on my Nordica SGs, 4 on pair #1, 4 on pair #3, and 7 on the rock SG skis. I was going to ski on my GS skis for the first run, but decided to just man up and start off on SG skis. Skied from 9-11 on longboards, which is amazing because it was two for one day at Sunapee, and there were so many people there that people were parking in Lot #3. After getting my SG runs in, and confirming that my Nordica SG skis are godly fast, I jumped on the DH skis. I honestly thought that pair #1 would be faster than #3, but I was wrong. Several speedsuit tuck runs on the flats proved that #3 was faster, not by much, but definitely faster. Chris showed up and I jumped on my SL skis, which was an absolute shot to me coming from DH tuck runs. My legs eventually adjusted, and after a few runs I was doing the stuff that I was the night before. I threw the customs on shortly after. I must honestly say that I found my DH skis ALOT easier to ski on than the custom GS skis, even though the customs have been getting easier and easier to ski on as the days pass. I ended the day at 3, and my legs were burned. While all 7 pairs of skis into the car, I made a horrific discovery. The 7075 Aluminum plate located under the binding plate delaminated from the core of the ski while skiing today. I ran over to Skinners to see if they had a quick fix solution, since I have a race this weekend, and the customs are the only GS skis that I have. Frankie looked at them and said "owwwww". He then dissapeared for a moment, then came back with a pair of Nordica GS skis and a mystery pair of skis. He handed me the Nordicas and told me to ski on those until my customs got fixed/replaced or until I get another pair of legal GS skis. The other pair was my long lost pair of Volkl SL skis, which indeed did get lost. Frank apparently talked to Volkl sometime last week and they told him that they would credit the shop with a pair of skis for the next season for their loss. Frank gave me a pair off of his rack, and in return he will get a pair from Volkl for free next season.
post #46 of 80
the whole concept of a custom GS ski is the most self-indulgent, narcissistic thing I have ever heard, and non-productive to boot. are you too good to ski a mass produced race ski? just how good are you? or are you mostly a gear dork?

this may sure be the only place on the planet that would read this with a straight face, so you're in the right place to talk about the over-the-top rediculous gear issues.
post #47 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

the whole concept of a custom GS ski is the most....
 

I hesitate to say this so early in the day, but: you need a drink.
post #48 of 80
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

the whole concept of a custom GS ski is the most self-indulgent, narcissistic thing I have ever heard, and non-productive to boot. are you too good to ski a mass produced race ski? just how good are you? or are you mostly a gear dork?

this may sure be the only place on the planet that would read this with a straight face, so you're in the right place to talk about the over-the-top rediculous gear issues.

Somebody has a stick up his ass. Haven't I said that the skis were an experiment and more for the joy of having a custom ski than anything? Oh shit, I have like a dozen times in this thread and a handful of others.
post #49 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rise To The Top View Post



Somebody has a stick up his ass. Haven't I said that the skis were an experiment and more for the joy of having a custom ski than anything? Oh shit, I have like a dozen times in this thread and a handful of others.

How's that joy now?
post #50 of 80
 I've seen RTTT post a number of times that the major "driver" in all of this was being part of the process of building a pair of custom made skis....a real hands-on experience. I don't ever recall him mentioning that he felt that these would be a much better ski for him, or anybody else, than a production race stock GS ski. He obviously must have hoped they would be great. Never do I recall seeing anything that would hint at his "needing" something custom based on his ability. Far from it. In fact, a number of folks pointed out that there was a lot of risk in doing this, and yet he really wanted to see it through.....even if they ended up mounted on the wall as ski art. From what I read, it sounds like they may not in fact be great skis. There are a lot of comments on how "hard" they are to ski. My advice would be to go back to his Nordica's or Volkl's, as I doubt the ski's skiability will change much.  But I don't think we need to continue to jump all over him for having the skis built. The builder is a young guy, too, and on ES. Good for both of them to give it a try. 

If you haven't noticed, RTTT has a real passion for all of this, and in particular a huge interest in equipment. Some may say it's over the top. Maybe he'll make it to the WC as a tech, not a skier!! I wouldn't encourage one of my kids to have a custom pair of skis built, but in a lifetime of skiing, it's probably a neat experience to have had. No need to bash the kid, IMO. 
post #51 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

the whole concept of a custom GS ski is the most self-indulgent, narcissistic thing I have ever heard, and non-productive to boot. are you too good to ski a mass produced race ski? just how good are you? or are you mostly a gear dork?

this may sure be the only place on the planet that would read this with a straight face, so you're in the right place to talk about the over-the-top rediculous gear issues.

You have a point, but it shouldn't offend you.  I think it is great that self indulgent gear dorks have a place to talk about over- the-top ridiculous gear issues.  I think it is really good to see it in some young people.

Heck, I have a friend who was getting his father to buy him Belgian beer when he was 12 so he could isolate the yeasts and make his own custom beer.  He now has more Great American Beer festival medals than Lindsey Vonn has World Cup medals.

Good on you RTTT!  Don't be discouraged if the skis aren't the best you try...I doubt my friend's first beers were that great either.  
post #52 of 80
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muleski View Post

 I've seen RTTT post a number of times that the major "driver" in all of this was being part of the process of building a pair of custom made skis....a real hands-on experience. I don't ever recall him mentioning that he felt that these would be a much better ski for him, or anybody else, than a production race stock GS ski. He obviously must have hoped they would be great. Never do I recall seeing anything that would hint at his "needing" something custom based on his ability. Far from it. In fact, a number of folks pointed out that there was a lot of risk in doing this, and yet he really wanted to see it through.....even if they ended up mounted on the wall as ski art. From what I read, it sounds like they may not in fact be great skis. There are a lot of comments on how "hard" they are to ski. My advice would be to go back to his Nordica's or Volkl's, as I doubt the ski's skiability will change much.  But I don't think we need to continue to jump all over him for having the skis built. The builder is a young guy, too, and on ES. Good for both of them to give it a try. 

If you haven't noticed, RTTT has a real passion for all of this, and in particular a huge interest in equipment. Some may say it's over the top. Maybe he'll make it to the WC as a tech, not a skier!! I wouldn't encourage one of my kids to have a custom pair of skis built, but in a lifetime of skiing, it's probably a neat experience to have had. No need to bash the kid, IMO. 



 

The skis have actually helped me quite a bit. I got on a pair of Nordica GS skis earlier today, and damn they were simple to ski on. The customs are like ankle weights or a bat weight for skiing. They have made me pay alot more attention to detail when skiing, which has carried over to skiing on the normal stock skis. Really looking forward to the races this weekend, assuming that I can find a place to stay for Saturday night.
post #53 of 80
RTTT, apologies. and good luck in your pursuit of ski knowlege.

I have no gripe with this kind of thing, you guys may well learn how to make great skis, some day. .

But, I do get pissed when so many new ski companies, domestic or not, have the arrogance and gaul to suggest they have made a good ski with a couple years experience. It is insulting to anyone (or company) that has spent a lifetime honing their skills and expanding their knowlege. It''s like saying, that looks easy, I'll work on it a little while and make one also, only better.

can't be done. what ever happened to making something, testing it, improving it, testing it, improving it ......and not selling it until you are satisfied with the product.

that's respect and integrity

edit: some new companies would like to be appreciated for new ideas they bring to the industry. and at best, that may happen, but a chopped off tip doesn't make it progress.
 
But where it is most significant, the structure of the ski, they are waaaaaay back with the original wet wrap skis like the first K-2's. So some new companies are really about 50 years behind. Play catch up and play hard or you'll just always be on the heels of companies with 100 Xs more experience.
Edited by davluri - 1/8/10 at 10:54am
post #54 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

can't be done. what ever happened to making something, testing it, improving it, testing it, improving it ......and not selling it until you are satisfied with the product.

This is reply from one of such ski builders on my comment, that they can't compare with big companies, who are spending millions for R&D, for testing (including with World's top racers) etc. etc., while they do their skis in garage pretty much without any decent knowledge and without any testing, since testing costs LOTS of money, which they don't have.

Quote:
Actually, big ski companies spend millions of dollars on ski racers in tights. The rest of the time they are scouring the internet looking for ideas they can steel. After that, they spend a second million on a brochure with liquid metal and springs. And then they hire some posers for a cool couple of thousand and call it a day.

The big companies use core stock that was developed in the snow board industry 20 years ago. They will come around to horizontal laminated core stock in good time. But, give them at least 3 more years.

As for the computer programs that they use, "that normal people have not even heard of," so what. The geeks that punch the numbers in have no idea how to build a ski.

"Something better and faster". Faster? what for? I go plenty fast. Oh you mean those guys and gals in tights? Ok, they get down the hill a couple of mils faster, but thats because of the tights. I poo-poo you not.

So what else can you say after something like this? I guess nothing much, except to forget all this and have your own opinion about this, and most importantly opinion, which you keep to yourself, since obviously these guys are pretty touchy.
post #55 of 80
I am reacting, I think I said it somewhere, because it is insulting to any person who makes something with their hands and their machines to say you are making a comparable product straight out of nowhere. nowhere skis. nowhere man.

In my business, if a potential client says to me that  he can make a table (as he has some tools and some wood), but how much do I charge, I know that that client will be unwilling to pay a price that is appropriate for the value of the product. That is because they have already expressed that they feel the product is simple to understand and easy to make without experience or skill, in that they have neither, and think they can make a table.

Same with the skis. Wet wrap=crap, and most 'new' skis are wet-wrap fiberglass construction, not cured fiberglass lamination. Is your core milled to shape, or laminated, or pre-stressed in a form? What are the properties of your adhesive? did you buy it at a general plastics supply store? or did you have it formulated by chemical engineers to  optimize the flex and dampening characteristics your ski requires? and so on for every step of the process and each material used.

Skis are wierd. A pile of material configured like a ski may look exactly like a ski without having any of the performance qualities of a ski. The technology is expensive and complicated. It takes generations to develop a ski with a unique, positve feel to it. That's why you can say that a Rossignol feels differently than a Volkl.

Go disect a ski made in the 60s and attempt to understand what was going on with it. That's how far behind you are.

.
post #56 of 80
davluri,

I'd appreciate if you look around here a bit more before spewing off posts like this.

I'm really curious to hear your description of a "wet wrap" ski vs. a cured laminate, because your wording makes me think you have read one too many posts on the internet, there is a proper terminology used by the composites industry, and that's a new one to me.

Or better yet, contact me directly and we can discuss some of your apparent issues with what I am doing.

There is a place to discuss this, and it is not here. I ask you to please refrain from further posts like this, as the are based purely on speculation.


-Kyle Pilote
Pilote Custom Skis
post #57 of 80
With respect, why is this not a place to discuss ski manufacture?  Is it the wrong thread, wrong forum, wrong site?

Quote:
Vashon-Maury Island Beachcomber:

 In 1961, he borrowed a pair of Head metal skis and used them as a model to build his first pair. Using a “wet wrap” technique, which he went on to patent, Bill invented a fiberglass ski that revolutionized the ski industry.
 

The entire article: http://www.pnwlocalnews.com/vashon/vib/lifestyle/50160202.html

"wet wrap", at least when referring to early fiberglass skis, is a popular term in the ski industry if not the composite industry.

Many on this site often speak at odds to other's opinions yet aren't asked to refrain from doing so. They are only asked to be polite. Rather than castigating, how about educating?
post #58 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by krp8128 View Post

There is a place to discuss this, and it is not here. I ask you to please refrain from further posts like this, as the are based purely on speculation.


-Kyle Pilote
Pilote Custom Skis



 

This is a great place to discuss this.  I don't see any other similar threads active.  What are you some kind of moderator?  I have to say I'd be very hesitant buy some Pilote Custom skis.  Doesn't sound as though my input would be valued, or even tolerated

I've been interested in ski construction ever since my 7th grade science fair project, where I laminated little mini skis out of wood, metal, fiberglass rubber etc. and measured their vibration dampening.  Lets' hear what is being used today.
post #59 of 80
Wrong thread, right forum and site.

This thread was started by RTTP to discuss his specific pair of skis. I'll gladly discuss construction techniques with anyone on this forum, but I don't think this thread is the place to debate construction and design.


I feel like took offense to the fact that RTTP has these skis, and after apologizing he began to dump on custom/indy manufacturers in general. I'm not asking him to stop posting, I'm asking him to take the time to become familer with a company before he starts stating things that could potentially hurt them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

RTTT, apologies. and good luck in your pursuit of ski knowlege.

I have no gripe with this kind of thing, you guys may well learn how to make great skis, some day. .

But, I do get pissed when so many new ski companies, domestic or not, have the arrogance and gaul to suggest they have made a good ski with a couple years experience. It is insulting to anyone (or company) that has spent a lifetime honing their skills and expanding their knowlege. It''s like saying, that looks easy, I'll work on it a little while and make one also, only better.

can't be done. what ever happened to making something, testing it, improving it, testing it, improving it ......and not selling it until you are satisfied with the product.

that's respect and integrit
y

edit: some new companies would like to be appreciated for new ideas they bring to the industry. and at best, that may happen, but a chopped off tip doesn't make it progress.
 
But where it is most significant, the structure of the ski, they are waaaaaay back with the original wet wrap skis like the first K-2's. So some new companies are really about 50 years behind. Play catch up and play hard or you'll just always be on the heels of companies with 100 Xs more experience.


Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

I am reacting, I think I said it somewhere, because it is insulting to any person who makes something with their hands and their machines to say you are making a comparable product straight out of nowhere. nowhere skis. nowhere man.

In my business, if a potential client says to me that  he can make a table (as he has some tools and some wood), but how much do I charge, I know that that client will be unwilling to pay a price that is appropriate for the value of the product. That is because they have already expressed that they feel the product is simple to understand and easy to make without experience or skill, in that they have neither, and think they can make a table.

Same with the skis. Wet wrap=crap, and most 'new' skis are wet-wrap fiberglass construction, not cured fiberglass lamination. Is your core milled to shape, or laminated, or pre-stressed in a form? What are the properties of your adhesive? did you buy it at a general plastics supply store? or did you have it formulated by chemical engineers to  optimize the flex and dampening characteristics your ski requires? and so on for every step of the process and each material used.

Skis are wierd. A pile of material configured like a ski may look exactly like a ski without having any of the performance qualities of a ski. The technology is expensive and complicated. It takes generations to develop a ski with a unique, positve feel to it. That's why you can say that a Rossignol feels differently than a Volkl.

Go disect a ski made in the 60s and attempt to understand what was going on with it. That's how far behind you are.

.


Comments like this, to me, appear unfounded and unnecessary.

newfydog,

I can give you a list of people that I have or am working with to design skis, I assure you it is ALL about customer input. To date, I have turned away 3 customers. The first wanted a reverse camber ski that i was not capable of producing at the time, and the last two were interested in investing in the company. I was interested in working with them until they declared their intent on 51% ownership and gaining control.







If anyone is interested, I started a Custom Ski Construction and Tech discussion to keep this thread heading in it's original direction. The reason this didn't exist already is that no one has asked before.
Edited by krp8128 - 1/13/10 at 4:31am
post #60 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by krp8128 View Post

If anyone is interested, I started a Custom Ski Construction and Tech discussion to keep this thread heading in it's original direction. The reason this didn't exist already is that no one has asked before.

 


Your link doesn't work.  A real moderator would give us a functional link, and just move the posts.

Thread drift and hijacking is a time honored tradition here. 
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