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Rocker ski for the occasional "old guy"

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 
Is there a reasonably-lower priced rocker ski out there?  I'm a 6'-2", 250lb, level 6 skier - who'd like to try these in the deeper stuff.  My current skis are Dynastar Myths (178), which are great on firmer snow, chop and powder.  I just seem to have to work a bit harder with these and thought to try a pair of rockers and have no problemo in adding a pair to the quiv.

So can someone help me with:
  • Where is there a list of rocker skis ... ski specs I've seen do not typically discuss camber
  • Are there rocker telemark skis, and do these work as well
  • My gut says no, but do resorts rent rocker skis

And, lastly an overall recommendation is much appreciated ... Ciao
post #2 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorm57 View Post

Is there a reasonably-lower priced rocker ski out there?
Here's a link to the Bluehouse Maven.  You can get a pair right now for $325.
post #3 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorm57 View Post

  • My gut says no, but do resorts rent rocker skis

At this point, rocker skis are just skis, so if you are at a resort that rents skis I think you can expect to see some rockers in the fleet.

For recommendations, the two that really stood out for me this year were the Rossi S7 and the Volkl Katana. The S7 being an extreme shape and the Katana being a stealthy rocker that feels a lot like a "normal" ski but easier to use.
post #4 of 26
Check out www.praxisskis.com fpr one example of a range of different types of "rocker" skis.  You'd need to give more vitals on where and when you'll be skiing to give a specific recommendation as to even a specific shape and construction.  For instance, my assumption is that you'll be going lift-served and mainly are looking for something for soft snow/storm days where the groomer element will be minimal, hopefully non-hardpack, but still present, but that could be off on my part. 
post #5 of 26
what kind of rocker?  He's the deal, the term has many meanings, there are tip, tail and camber "rockered" skis.  By next season you will have a pretty large selection. I am assuming you are looking to demo some kind of tip and tail rocker? A general more versitile rockered ski will be in the 10/20 range, 10mm of rise over 20cm on the tip and or tail, that's how it's calculated. This coming season will hava  few 5/10 or "slight rise" tips There is also reverse camber underfoot but its not as "user-friendly" and they tend to be much more powder-centric boards like a Praxis or Pontoon.

Some to check out:
Seth- 10/20
Hellbents  20/40 no camber
Czar 
Lord- here's a partial rocker, 85 underfoot
Praxis
Rosi S7 (as mentioned)
Armada JJ (good luck finding one!)
Lasa Pow, Bro Gear.

This coming season will bring a bunch more to market including
Gotama
Atomic Blog and bentchetler, the blog is actually a new kind of rocker ski (so the marketing dept says...)  There is no rise at the tail, rocker tip only.
Katana

AND more.......

Icelantic to introduce at SIA, there version which promises to be a new design/concept as well.
post #6 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTKook View Post

"my assumption is that you'll be going lift-served and mainly are looking for something for soft snow/storm days where the groomer element will be minimal, hopefully non-hardpack, but still present, but that could be off on my part. "

Bingo!  65% of my skiing would be on trail.  I'd like to have a pair in the quiv for when the storms roll in, and some off piste' as well.  Skiing off piste' on the non-storm days is something I'm working up to ... just not there yet, and my hope is that these would help make the transition a bit easier.
post #7 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post

Some to check out:
Seth- 10/20
Hellbents  20/40 no camber
Czar 
Lord- here's a partial rocker, 85 underfoot
Praxis
Rosi S7 (as mentioned)
Armada JJ (good luck finding one!)
Lasa Pow, Bro Gear.

This coming season will bring a bunch more to market including
Gotama
Atomic Blog and bentchetler, the blog is actually a new kind of rocker ski (so the marketing dept says...)  There is no rise at the tail, rocker tip only.
Katana

AND more.......

Icelantic to introduce at SIA, there version which promises to be a new design/concept as well.
 

Don't forget the ridonkulously rockered:



Movement Flyswatter 
post #8 of 26
 Too much, except if you own a heli, live in powderville, and like skiing sideways... 
post #9 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorm57 View Post



Bingo!  65% of my skiing would be on trail.  I'd like to have a pair in the quiv for when the storms roll in, and some off piste' as well.  Skiing off piste' on the non-storm days is something I'm working up to ... just not there yet, and my hope is that these would help make the transition a bit easier.

 

Cool.  One of the limitations of the web is it's hard to tell whether you mean "ungroomed" by off-piste, or beyond resort boundaries, which are tow very different things.  The good news is with some planning @ the right resorts you can find pretty good soft snow inbounds many days after a storm, and skis designed for it will help.

Based on limited info, I'm thinking Volkl Katana,  Armada JJ, Praxis RX, something like that.  You should find lots of Katanas used; many will have slight delam or other issues that you may not really care about too much.  Just talk the the seller & make sure you have good vibes about the communication beforehand.  Check TGR and Newschoolers among others both for deals and more info on these types of skis. 

One strategy for some of the "niche" manufacturers is to call them at a time that's not super-busy, be respectful of their time, and ask if they have factory seconds or last season's demos, etc. available.  If they get the sense you're sincere and that they won't be seeing them on ebay in a week, a lot of people will work with you.

Honestly I like Bluehouse skis a lot, though I haven't beenon the Maven -- and that's a great deal Bumpfreaq linked.  But depending on your athleticism and comfort level with just sliding through moments on ice/firmer snow, I'm thinking those skis could take you for a ride when you are taking them to/from soft snow at this point. 

If you do add to the quiver, remember structuring your vacation plans around exposing yourself to max soft snow wilth appropriate,mellow, easily accessed terrain is equally critical.    I would be thinking Powder Mountain or maybe Snowbasin in UT for instance for a destination vaca.  Before you get there it would pay to actually research the resort's terrain and have a strategy laid out for hitting the goods.  With altitude effects, the "fun" factor of just being there, and getting used to a resort's layout it's easy otherwise to spend several days kind of wandering.  Fun but it won't maximize the snow you're looking for.  Because I have a spaniel brain I actually write out a list of what I want to do that I can carry with me.

Between now and then, any time you can spend in a skatepark on inline skates (I shudder saying that, but am serious, but pad up and take it slow and easy if you were to try it and know you can get hurt) or skateboard, or on a mountain bike,. or even trail running on steep, up/down trails, will also help you at least as much as different skis, probably more, probably much more. 

 
post #10 of 26
 Powder Mt is really fun.  Another mellow hill with great snow is Grand Targhee here in my area.
post #11 of 26
With Volkl "rockering" the Katana for 2010 you should be able to find 2009 versions reasonably priced.  The 09 version is very slightly rockered (more flat than rockered IMO), which makes for a versatile ski.  Volkl measures its skis "long" so for your size I would not go shorter than 190.  They actually do come in a 197 but I think only Clark Kent has a pair of those.  I'm 6'1" and 210 lbs and replaced my 183's with 190's this year.  Great ski.

Another one worth checking out is the Line Prophet 100.  Uber versatile but still with good float.

Hope that helps.
post #12 of 26
 FWIW - the Katana I was recommending was the 2010. I found it to ski very much like the traditional ski but better and easier. I am 6" 200 lbs and have skied the 183 and that's the size I'd buy.
post #13 of 26
Thread Starter 

Thanks for the recommendations, and I'll definately be on the lookout for a pair of Katana's and/or check out the Bluehouse brand b4 the season begins. 

Although I live in NC, most of my skiing days are in the Rockies or Wasatch ... I might spend 3-4 days on the hills here in Va - WVa each year.  Powder Mtn is one of my favorite places to ski and I can relate to CTKOOK's comments on the place, the terrain is more medum pitch and the snow is soooo fine.  One of our best days this past season was at PowMow ... snowing like crazy and skiing in boot to knee deep fresh all day long! 

This day is what caused me to start looking at a flat and/or rocker design ... while I had a blast, I had to stay a bit in the back seat most of the time which made it difficult; ergo considering the flat or rocker ski to help stay a bit more upright - yadayadayada.

We've a trip planned for January to go to Whitefish Mtn, in Montana, which is a cruisers delight.  While there, I'd like to get into some of the off piste areas - not out of bounds, but ungroomed areas within the ski area boundary.  Again, the intent here is the flat/rocker ski might make skiing these areas a bit more easy for the occasional "old guy"

post #14 of 26
Good deal.  For the Katana's, personally I wouldn't worry about model year if you're looking for deals.  Flat with pow-friendly shovel and tail vs rocker won't be that noticeable to you.  One thing that may be noticeable is that they will handle softer snow very easily but will not want very small turn shapes, and so you should be comfortable with a more-open, down the hill, turn shape and carrying just a little speed.  If you know you are comfortable with that, great.  Also one of the advantages of a mountain with abundant open, mellow terrain is you can keep that turn shape easier.   If you prefer slower speeds and shorter rounder turns a softer ski with no metal in it, maybe even with more sidecut, might make you happier.    The good part of buyingused in particular is it's much easier to try a few different flavors.
post #15 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTKook View Post

One thing that may be noticeable is that they will handle softer snow very easily but will not want very small turn shapes, and so you should be comfortable with a more-open, down the hill, turn shape and carrying just a little speed.

I think short turns are actually one of the strengths of the 2010 Katana. That's what I feel makes it such a forgiving and easy ski. The Rocker makes the ski very easy to steer, but since the Rocker is so minimal it's very easy to dial in more edge again.
post #16 of 26
The new year's model, that magical place where early rise gives way to rocker, but only the right amount of rocker, yada yada.  Not that big a diff quite frankly.

Sliding and schmearing is one thing, but talking about steering turns in 3d snow makes the baby Jesus want to cry, even if the steered turn is a religion on here. 
post #17 of 26
An impression of last years Katana from someone who is not an experienced wide-ski user...
I skied them for an hour or two at Loveland on an inappropriate day (I purposely tried a ski that was "wrong" for the day as an experiemnt).  Except for one 20 foot long overlooked patch of powder, everything was hardpack.

1) CTKook's wide-open, down the hill comment is on the money.  I was able to milk a couple of turns out of my patch on the other skis, but only about 1/2 a turn on the Katana.

2) They will carve on hardpack, if you stand hard on them and insist.

3) When I tried to bounce off an edgeset on a steep pitch, they washed out.  (I know, its considered bad form, but I think it is fun once in awhile.)

4) They were surprisingly good in the bumps. 
post #18 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTKook View Post

The new year's model, that magical place where early rise gives way to rocker, but only the right amount of rocker, yada yada.  Not that big a diff quite frankly.

Sliding and schmearing is one thing, but talking about steering turns in 3d snow makes the baby Jesus want to cry, even if the steered turn is a religion on here. 

So is baby Jesus anti-rocker? If you are going to "carve" everything why even have rocker? Having skied both skis for more than a few days each, they are different skis.
post #19 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post




So is baby Jesus anti-rocker? If you are going to "carve" everything why even have rocker? Having skied both skis for more than a few days each, they are different skis.

I didn't say "carve" in hardpack terms, and I made clear that sliding and schmearing are cool to do.  But yeah, I'm a proponent of actually using the thing you're standing on to turn, not trying to twist the ski as a primary means of effecting direction change.  I know all the word games about steering really being something different, and then on the slopes that doesn't pan out that way and the net result tends to be people who have to get the skis out of the snow to then twist them the right direction to ski pow.  Not good.

If you don't know how the rocker works in 3d snow, and why to an extent it's analogous to an engaged sidecut on firm snow, then I don't know what more to say.
post #20 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTKook View Post


If you don't know how the rocker works in 3d snow, and why to an extent it's analogous to an engaged sidecut on firm snow, then I don't know what more to say.

For a guy that sounds like he wants to be able to ski slower and more in control (the OP), I think that  more steered turn might be what he is looking for the ski to help him with. 
post #21 of 26
If he wants to get exhausted quickly and maybe strain a knee here and there it could work, yes.  Kinda what rockered skis aim to eliminate a need for, though.Stick ski in deep snow, point tip right to go right in a positive steering action...hmmm, kinda hard.  Ride that ski right using interaction of ski w snow, much better.  Also why I recommended things like mountain biking to the op but not pivot slips.
post #22 of 26
 On a non-rockered ski that would be exhausting. I'm not saying you are wrong either. There's more than one kind of 3D snow too ya know. Deep powder is easy to ski on just about any ski.
post #23 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post

 On a non-rockered ski that would be exhausting. I'm not saying you are wrong either. There's more than one kind of 3D snow too ya know. Deep powder is easy to ski on just about any ski.

I read in National Geographic that it stays soft and fluffy even after exposure to wind, sun and stuff -- it can be different?  I need to get out more.

I'm assuming deep powder being easy to ski was a typo though.  It is more-challenging than your average groomer and always will be.  Modern ski shapes can make it much "easier" though, but only through their interaction with the snow.  I.e. in many types of soft snow those skis are in the snow, not on top, even if they plane better than traditional skis...and so steering is, well, what it is.
post #24 of 26
<<<older dude who ski'd a rocker for the first time for a few days last  year.  Once you go rocker you never go back.....

Demo demo demo demo demo

Oh and FYI the Rossi S7 has a very small turning radius. Which is why i like it so much as im getting to old n out of shape to bomb anything.
post #25 of 26
Wow! Lively thread.  While one size is never the only size I still think you should go 190 if you go Katana.  However, if you decide you want 183 I still have my lightly used pair (I pulled the jester bindings off) and will ebay them soon.

The good news in all this is there is a ton of really good skis out there!
post #26 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorm57 View Post

Is there a reasonably-lower priced rocker ski out there?  I'm a 6'-2", 250lb, level 6 skier - who'd like to try these in the deeper stuff.  My current skis are Dynastar Myths (178), which are great on firmer snow, chop and powder. 
I am 5'10" 190 and have 184 Mythic Riders and 195 Praxis Powder Boards. My point being, at your size, you need some 190+ skis to ski easily in powder. There are always Praxis for sale in Gear Swap over at TGR. I love my 195 Praxis Powders which are a reverse/reverse ski. In 6"+ of fresh snow, they are the most fun I have every had in pow. Check them out.
If you want a new pair of skis that are less expensive with tip rocker and a traditional sidecut, order a pair here: http://www.333skis.com
EDIT: I had the good fortune this week to get an email from Keith at www.praxisskis.com that he had some 190 Back Country's in the Kick Ass deals portion of the website. Those would be very nice for your needs. Send him an email asking for a heads up next time he has some available.



Edited by liv2 ski - 7/19/2009 at 04:29 am GMT
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