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2009 Tour "day" France - Page 5

post #121 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post
Who thinks Evans will start tomorrow?

If he pulls out, what's left other than commentating? 
post #122 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by comprex View Post




If he pulls out, what's left other than commentating? 

Lance is gonna be looking for some domestiques for his new team.
post #123 of 201
Think George will be one of 'em?

Today's stage also showed who the team players were on Astana -- and it wasn't Contador.  What was that dropping Kloden and not protecting the podium position of the team?  He put Saxo into 2nd and 3rd.

Mike
post #124 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by habacomike View Post

Think George will be one of 'em?

Today's stage also showed who the team players were on Astana -- and it wasn't Contador.  What was that dropping Kloden and not protecting the podium position of the team?  He put Saxo into 2nd and 3rd.

Mike

Yeah, that didn't make any sense to me. When he looked back ad saw that the only person he dropped was Klodi I figured he'd sit up. If he had, Astana would have the whole podium. He should be glad he didn't puncture or anything once he had dropped Kloden.
post #125 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by habacomike View Post

Think George will be one of 'em?

 

George…

maybe…

 

But it will be hard for him to forget that Astana [Bruyneel] artificially limited that break to 9min…and regardless of the fact LA said “big G” is a fav…Johan and LA could have easily dialed it down as they knew exactly where the hell George was.  And btw…it was the Astana team and not Garmin or even the final train leading teammate/roommate Cavendish for green that cost George.  So…me thinks…not having that second yellow jersey in 14 years on tour…with his family flying in that very evening...will be hard for George to forget.  Regardless of a contract bump with old teammates, I can’t imagine George forgetting the loss of a framed Yellow Jersey at the Hincapie Sportswear office. 

 

Guaranteed though…wherever LA goes you’ll find his forever faithful sidekick Popovych by his side.

 

…Alberto dropping Kloden off his wheel and not the Lux Bros…idiot move chalked up to youth and a lack of 2008 TDF experience.    

post #126 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post

Yeah, that didn't make any sense to me.

I figured he was trying to attack Franck, who had done the bulk of the setup work for Andy up until  the Romme.
post #127 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by habacomike View Post

Today's stage also showed who the team players were on Astana -- and it wasn't Contador.  What was that dropping Kloden and not protecting the podium position of the team?  He put Saxo into 2nd and 3rd.
That's what I saw on first too. But it might not be necessary to be so. He had "talk" with Kloden before that. He tried to get rid of Frank, which would actually be good for rest of Astana riders too. And based on this what Contador said, Kloden told him to attack if he wants, so I guess he thought Kloden is able to follow. On the end it went worse possible way. But even though I hope both Schleck brothers will be on podium, I really doubt they have TT abilities to do so.
post #128 of 201
 Did anyone see George go down yesterday? http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/hincapie-to-continue-despite-crash
post #129 of 201
 I'm pulling for Wiggins today. I want to see the GC really tighten today.
post #130 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by primoz View Post
And based on this what Contador said,
 

...is only lipstick on a pig.

 

Stupid move Alberto but it does keep controversy necessary for some big team changes.

 

Prior Lance interviews as well as his last eve’s “bite my tongue” comment about Alberto’s lone ranger move on Col de la Colombiere is the tell:

 

2010 TdF will be a cage match pitting the 09 tour winner vs. the old man with big lungs.

[now off to check the TT results]

post #131 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post

 I'm pulling for Wiggins today. I want to see the GC really tighten today.


yeah, me too...I'm becoming a Wiggins fan.  Great ride by him so far this year.  Very impressive.
post #132 of 201

Alberto pre-announces the ’10 TdF cage match today... 

With the TT aero to beat Fabian and a mountain turbo to beat Andy; baring any injury or spill, Lance already knows his podium step will be lower.  

post #133 of 201
post #134 of 201
 Nice ride by A Schleck. Amazing ride by Contador. I was really hoping the GC would tighten up a little more than this though. I hope Scheck is not satisfied with 2nd and will fight rather than try to defend from Armstrong.
post #135 of 201
 Please don't let Contador be on drugs.
 Please don't let Contador be on drugs.
 Please don't let Contador be on drugs.
 Please don't let Contador be on drugs.
 Please don't let Contador be on drugs.
 Please don't let Contador be on drugs.
 Please don't let Contador be on drugs.
post #136 of 201
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post

 Nice ride by A Schleck. Amazing ride by Contador. I was really hoping the GC would tighten up a little more than this though. I hope Scheck is not satisfied with 2nd and will fight rather than try to defend from Armstrong.

Greg has a few ideas on how AC has been doing it.....

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/contador-extends-tour-lead-with-stunning-time-trial-win

http://www.podiumcafe.com/2009/7/23/959675/lemond-asks-contador-to-prove-he
post #137 of 201
Please don't let Contador be on drugs!

I think it should probably be "please don't let Contador test positive for drugs."


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/the_bonus/07/07/tour/index.html


A good analysis of the US vs Europe perspective on the drug issue.
post #138 of 201
 Can we assume they all top off their blood to stay near the max allowed hemocrit, careful not to go above? How about testosterone? These are not banned substances, it would seem negligent not to keep them at proper legal levels.
post #139 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post

 Please don't let Contador be on drugs.

The above question about rest-day spinning was ^not^ an accident.

It comes from the discussion here:

http://www.sportsscientists.com/search?q=verbier
post #140 of 201
If something goes on my nerves are accusations of other cyclists or ex-cyclists. They all know what is happening in top level sport. They are or they were part of it, so they know exactly what they themself are/were doing. So for Lemond, he is just nutcase. He should once and for all learn how to keep his mouth shut, and everyone would benefit from this.
I'm not saying Contador is clean, but I will say exactly same as I wrote few days ago about Landis. All those guys use same "help". Most of them have even same doctors (just look at Fuentes, Ferrari or some other a bit more famous doctor's client list). With very little of thinking, you get some pretty obvious conclusions, even if you don't know background about all this. Di Luca made 100s of doping tests. Kohl made 100s of doping tests, so did Armstrong, Ullrich (who actually never tested positive, except for that during injury drug test which was not really doping but one of his many stupidies with out of sport life), Basso, Contador, Schumacher, Rebellin etc. Everyone were clean on all, or almost all tests. Does anyone really think that some of these guys took doping just once, and they were caught exactly on that time? If yes, then I suggest reading or listening latest interviews from Kohl, or even interviews from few years ago with one of Kelme riders, who never got caught (if I remember right).
Doping in top level sport (not just cycling) is perfectly normal thing. Those guys walk on edge, and some succeed to stay on right side of this edge when testing, others have a bit of bad luck and one of tests gets wrong. But they are all on same thing. And it's all same on US side and on European side. Sorry guys, but you are not any better or have higher moral standards because you live on other side of ocean. You just hide those things a bit better behind shiny front facade and fake morality. But behind this, you are just as dirty as European junkies are ;) Just look at stuff going on in athletics, baseball, or even cycling (Landis, Hamilton etc. are all US riders ;))
So we are not all that different then someone might think. And in general for people a bit more infolved in top level sport, it's not a question if someone is using doping or not, but if someone has good enough doctors not to get caught ;)
post #141 of 201
After reading primoz's post and mudfoot's Sports Illustrated article, maybe the future for many pro sports is dual champions, clean and dirty.  Isn't there a trend in bodybuilding to "natural" competitions?  This could satisfy the purists and the absolutists.

Status quo maintained in stage 19 today.  Tomorrow on Ventoux should be fun.
post #142 of 201
If you look at how many KMs they race, and the speeds they maintain day after day, it seems almost impossible for an "unenhanced" human body to endure.  I'd like to think that at least some of the top riders are clean, and didn't use HGH or something to build muscle before the races, but when you compare their accomplishments to non-pro riders they seem to be at an unbelievable level.
post #143 of 201
Yea, but they also train unbelievably as well.  It does seem incredible, but also look at how difficult it is for any young rider to be in contention.  That's because it takes years of training to build the capilarization to be able to perform at that level.

Maybe there's still a bunch of dopers, but the biological passport has made it much more difficult to cheat. 

Mike
post #144 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by habacomike View Post

Yea, but they also train unbelievably as well.  It does seem incredible, but also look at how difficult it is for any young rider to be in contention.  That's because it takes years of training to build the capilarization to be able to perform at that level.

Maybe there's still a bunch of dopers, but the biological passport has made it much more difficult to cheat. 

Mike
I don't  want to be too cynical, but after Kohl got caught in last year's TdF he came clean on some of his history, which included talking about how the young riders could not afford the drug programs.  Maybe it just takes years to earn enough to "perform" at that level, but there is no question that even with the best drugs they still need to put in massive training.
post #145 of 201

Note; classes are still available for cycling and baseball * sensitivity training

 

Nice awareness LA; he latches onto sprint group’s 4 sec gap today

 

Cavendish really jumps my list of impressive young athletes today.  His sincere interview about his Columbia mates gutting themselves on train to put him into position for all his stage wins was impressive and goes well beyond all the positive influence even Hincapie has had with him.  I think he's got it.

 

Certainly Cav is an amazing speed talent.  He knows exactly when his lead wheel is spent and can turn his head better than anyone I’ve ever seen in all that rush to manage forward motion while finding which side he’ll break on.  Also, I once thought guys like Boonen and Hushovd were the only ones who could really warp the new beefy BB’s.  But watching the crank speed thinking about the torque Cav generated along side Thor today; engineers will have a hard time keeping up with this kid as he is still developing

   

Racing Saturday’s section of 13.5 miles at an average grade of 7.6 percent would have mere mortals looking down at their cassette praying for one [or several] bigger cogs.  Along with Contador, whoever it is…it’s going to be painful to Paris podium.

post #146 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post

 Gotta give him credit for trying.

Think he'll try again tomorrow?   Or will they all try to protect Hushovd on Sunday?
post #147 of 201
Thread Starter 
While tomorrow on Mt. Ventoux will be interesting (hopefully) I am really waiting to see what happens Sunday in Paris. If the Manx Missile gets win 6 how far down does the God of Thunder have to finish for Cav to get the green?

Inquiring minds want to know......
post #148 of 201
No sprint points tomorrow, but it looks like two intermediate sprints on the way to the finish in Paris on Sunday, so it should be hard fought along the way, as well as at the end.
post #149 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by mudfoot View Post

No sprint points tomorrow, but it looks like two intermediate sprints on the way to the finish in Paris on Sunday, so it should be hard fought along the way, as well as at the end.

Exactly.   This is why I asked the question ^above^:

if you're Cervelo's team manager, and Sastre's feeling OK, do you try to push him up for a stage placement  like he had on Vesuvius,  or do you plan to use your domestiques to protect and launch Hushovd on Sunday?
post #150 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossi Smash View Post

While tomorrow on Mt. Ventoux will be interesting (hopefully) I am really waiting to see what happens Sunday in Paris. If the Manx Missile gets win 6 how far down does the God of Thunder have to finish for Cav to get the green?

Inquiring minds want to know......
 

Saturday & Sunday have two intermediate sprints each.  Therefore, with Hushovd at 260 and Cav at 235 today…I like this particular story which outlines the realistic Green story working into Paris. 

…From Telegraph UK:

Although mathematically still in contention with Hushovd for the green jersey, awarded to the winner of the points competition, that can happen only if Cavendish wins Saturday's two intermediate sprints and the stage and the Norwegian finishes nowhere and then crashes out of the bunch sprint in Paris, failing to score.

Showing a welcome touch of diplomacy after a week of bickering with the Norwegian, Cavendish insisted that the competition for green was over and set about mending a few fences. Hushovd kicked up a fuss last Saturday in Besancon when he felt he was impeded by Cavendish contesting the lower placings. Despite TV evidence being flimsy, Hushovd's complaint was upheld and the Briton was harshly docked his 13 points.

Cavendish's reply came earlier this week when he conceded that Hushovd would win the green jersey but claimed that it would be "tainted". Hushovd in turn hit back on the road by burying himself on a harsh mountain stage on Wednesday and scooping up all the intermediate sprints.

Last night there was a welcome outbreak of peace. "Somebody who has fought for the jersey like that, I can't compete with that, it was humiliating for me the other day when he rode like he did," Cavendish said. "Thor is a worthy winner, he deserves to win it. I am just going to go back to my original plan and concentrate on stage wins, I got a bit carried away in the race for the green."

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