EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Member Gear Reviews › 2010 Subaru Legacy: The car Subaru needs..
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

2010 Subaru Legacy: The car Subaru needs..

post #1 of 27
Thread Starter 

...but not the car <I> want. Let me explain. Having sold Subarus off and on since the late 80's I am very familiar with all the Legacy incarnations, I personally have had at least one of every generation. From the 1990 Legacy, every generation was an evolution,but the new 2010 is different, it is a revolution in the progression. It is such a revolution, I really think they should have given the car a new name. The 2010 Legacy gives Subaru their first Legacy since the first generation that can compete with the Accord, Camry and Altima (and even Mazda 6) in size, those other cars have evolved over the years and grew where the Legacy didn't. Looking at the 2010 next to the 2009, they look like completely different scale cars, visually, the 2010 looks about 15-20% larger.

 

Interior: Getting behind the wheel of the 2010 Legacy Limited, I noticed how much room there was, this car is much different than previous generations which had more of a "cockpit" feel, this is much more open and roomy. All four outboard seats are superior to previous cars and even than my 09 Forester, particularly the front passenger seat. The rear seats, with the front seats adjusted for my 5'11" frame had a tremendous amount of legroom to the point where I could sit in the back with my legs crossed and have enough room. I was impressed with the comfort of the drivers seat in particular. I really didn't get to play too much with the dials, HVAC or radio but the look was very "modern". U will say, that the feel of the pastics of the dash are a significant drop from the previous generation, I noticed the same in my Forester too. The hard plastic does not exude a premium level product. It was materials like this thad have separated Subaru in the past. 

 

Driving: The new CVT transmission would tale a bit of getting used to, Acceleration felt a little slugging from the 2.5L, it felt a but slower than my previous 2006 Legacy. Slower yes, bit the power was a lot smoother, the transmission accelerated much smother. I was surprised to fid paddle shifters on the steering column, they did make a difference for downshifting and felt very responsive. Another area that I was impressed was the handling and the ride, I took the Legacy fairly "hot" into a couple of turns and the Legacy entered and exited with much composure. 

 

Overall: The 2010 is a much better car, but I am not sure it is a better Subaru. The new Legacy is the most mainstream Subaru ever produced and in my opinion when it will be the best selling Legacy ever because it is the most mainstream. This Legacy falls under the old Vulcan proverb..."The needs of the many, out weigh the needs of the few", with the loss of the Legacy wagon and lack of a diesel motor, Subaru will be loosing my as a customer when i look for my next car. But for every person like me, there will be two mainstream customers they will pick up. The math works and I wish Subaru much success. 

post #2 of 27

I tend to agree, except that I think they'd be better off keeping a wagon version (notwithstanding the Faux-UV option with the Outback), and that Diesel is clearly the lowest cost way to move towards meeting CAFE.

post #3 of 27

Phil -- Have you seen the new 2010 Outback's yet?  I'm curious to hear if you have any impressions on that re-design as well.

post #4 of 27
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post

Phil -- Have you seen the new 2010 Outback's yet?  I'm curious to hear if you have any impressions on that re-design as well.


They didn't have an Outback yet. The new Outback will now be able to go head to head with the Volvo XC70. 

post #5 of 27

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDad View Post

I tend to agree, except that I think they'd be better off keeping a wagon version (notwithstanding the Faux-UV option with the Outback), and that Diesel is clearly the lowest cost way to move towards meeting CAFE.


What do you think about Subaru working the other side of the CAFE equation with their PZEV option? 
 

post #6 of 27

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post

 

Overall: The 2010 is a much better car, but I am not sure it is a better Subaru. The new Legacy is the most mainstream Subaru ever produced and in my opinion when it will be the best selling Legacy ever because it is the most mainstream. This Legacy falls under the old Vulcan proverb..."The needs of the many, out weigh the needs of the few", with the loss of the Legacy wagon and lack of a diesel motor, Subaru will be loosing my as a customer when i look for my next car. But for every person like me, there will be two mainstream customers they will pick up. The math works and I wish Subaru much success. 

 

Styling of the new Forester seems to shift in this direction as well.  Is this a general trend for Subaru?

 

post #7 of 27

phil- how much more does the new outback weigh. I understand that a manuel shift is only available with a 2.5 four

post #8 of 27
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by darent View Post

phil- how much more does the new outback weigh. I understand that a manuel shift is only available with a 2.5 four


Try about the manual. Not sure about the weight. I did hear the MPG is up to 28 in the OB and 31 in the Leg sedan. 

post #9 of 27

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mogulmuncher View Post

 


What do you think about Subaru working the other side of the CAFE equation with their PZEV option? 
 

 

Dunno about how that works.  I just know that for whatever reasons -- and AWD is probably one -- Subie generally lags the competition's mileage by 5-10%.  That's not a great starting point.

post #10 of 27
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDad View Post

 

 

Dunno about how that works.  I just know that for whatever reasons -- and AWD is probably one -- Subie generally lags the competition's mileage by 5-10%.  That's not a great starting point.


a 10% drop for the performance, security and safety of All wheel drive is a small cost. 

post #11 of 27

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post

 


a 10% drop for the performance, security and safety of All wheel drive is a small cost. 

 

No argument from me.

 

I'm just talking about the CAFE issue.

post #12 of 27
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDad View Post

 

 

No argument from me.

 

I'm just talking about the CAFE issue.


I think the CVT helps the mileage. With such a small product line, it will be tough for them to get the overall MPG's up. They do have some very serious hybrid technology (the reason Toyota bought a share of them) that is considered "next generation" vs. the current "feel good" of the current Hybrids that are out there. 

post #13 of 27

Looks too much like the new Camry.  Will there be a turbocharged version that sports an air intake on the hood like older models?

post #14 of 27
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post

 


I think the CVT helps the mileage. With such a small product line, it will be tough for them to get the overall MPG's up. They do have some very serious hybrid technology (the reason Toyota bought a share of them) that is considered "next generation" vs. the current "feel good" of the current Hybrids that are out there. 


The new CVT is rated at 31 MPG, very good. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnus_CA View Post

Looks too much like the new Camry.  Will there be a turbocharged version that sports an air intake on the hood like older models?


Yeah. The GT is still in the lien up. 

post #15 of 27

I was a big Subaru fan back when they made affordable cars.  I even recommended one to my mother who had some winter commuting through heavy drifts.

 

When they came up with their Legacy and phased out the Loyale, not so much. 

 

I remember telling my Dad how much better the Legacy was (and it was), as he was filling the small rear windshield washer reservoir (in a panel by the rear hatch).  I told him how the new car was better in so many ways, like the reservoir was in front where you could easily get at it.  He replied, "For five thousand dollars, I'll fill this one."

 

He was right.  For the money, I'll take the old Loyale.  However, there's no money to be made off folk like me.  I'm going to buy a Pontaic Wave 3 for cheap.  It's a car.  It works.  It's cheap. 

 

Anybody want to give me a Grand for the Ghostmobile?  It's got good tires.

post #16 of 27

found some specs and compared the 09 to the 10. the new outback is bigger, but not by much. a inch or two  here and there. the 10 overall length came up shorter than the 09 ?. no weights given.  same engine with more weight seems the mileage would suffer, CVT  tranny seemed to increase milage, wonder what the 2.5 manuel is rated for 2010. would love the new six with a manual tranny!!

post #17 of 27
Thread Starter 

We won't <ever> (never say never or ever) see the Subaru 6 Cyl with a stick.  

post #18 of 27

PZEV?

 

Phil:

 

Could you briefly explan a "Partial Zero Emissions Vehicle"? Is that like being "a little pregnant?"

 

Cheers
 

Da

 

Flav

post #19 of 27

         

Wikipedia  says..................A Partial Zero Emissions Vehicle is a vehicle that has zero evaporative emissions from its fuel system, has a 15 year (or at least 150,000 mile) warranty and meets SULEV tailpipe emission standards. [1

 

California standard definitions.

 

post #20 of 27

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GarryZ View Post

         

Wikipedia  says..................A Partial Zero Emissions Vehicle is a vehicle that has zero evaporative emissions from its fuel system, has a 15 year (or at least 150,000 mile) warranty and meets SULEV tailpipe emission standards. [1

 

California standard definitions.

 


Thanks Garry, I did not realize this was an industry wide term.....
 

 

The Greenies around here love them, my neighbor recently bought a new Subie and told me it was a PZEV quite proudly....when I asked exactly was PZEV actually meant in real life terms, he could not tell me....only that it was Green!

 

And here I  thought it was a type of candy dispenser......

 

 

Gald to know Subaru is keeping those evaporative fumes contained, just like every other car sold in North America!

 

Cheers

 

Da Flav

post #21 of 27

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post

 

Driving: The new CVT transmission would tale a bit of getting used to, Acceleration felt a little slugging from the 2.5L, it felt a but slower than my previous 2006 Legacy. Slower yes, bit the power was a lot smoother, the transmission accelerated much smother. I was surprised to fid paddle shifters on the steering column, they did make a difference for downshifting and felt very responsive.


I must be missing something here.  From my understanding, a CVT does not have 'gears' per se, so what's the point of paddle shifter's on the steering wheel?  My Toyota Highlander has a CVT.  It has two settings for the transmission: drive and brake.  You use brake when you want to keep the transmission from flowing into it's higher settings, a little like an overdrive lockout.  Otherwise, there is no 'gear' to select.  This is also one of my complaints about the Highlander; the CVT doesn't allow to lock in a low gear for anytime you need the car to really work, like pulling a trailer or mucking through a bad road.  Not the best of fits for an SUV, but great for a hybrid thats working to boost is MPG's.
 

 

As a quick aside, my Highlander Hybrid is most definitely NOT worth the premium charged for the hybrid.  The MPG's are nowhere near what the EPA and Toyota says they would/should be. 

post #22 of 27
Thread Starter 

That has confused me too. I am not sure how it works in this (and some other transmissions) but there was a downshift "feel" especially when I took it through some twisties. 

post #23 of 27

Even though a CVT can have essentially infinite gear ratios, some manufacturers program "steps" into the transmission so that it feels a little more like a traditional transmission, and also allows some manual control of the transmission.  For example, without the paddle shifters, if you want to downshift before passing someone, the only way to do it is to step on the gas and force the transmission ratios to change.  With the paddles, you can preemptively "downshift" (it really just adjusts the ratios in the transmission, but the end result is the same as a traditional downshift).

 

 Not all manufacturers have done this, like the toyota Tag mentioned above.

post #24 of 27

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by flaviaman View Post

 


 

Gald to know Subaru is keeping those evaporative fumes contained, just like every other car sold in North America!

 

Cheers

 

Da Flav



 

 

Not exactly like all the other cars, since most don't yet meet the CARB standard for PZEV.
 
Subaru's approach is different than the hybrids. They don't have any gains on the supply side – fuel economy ratings are essentially the same, so you'll use the same amount of fuel to get somewhere.  On the exhaust side though, there is a significant reduction in tailpipe emissions, so it has clear environmental benefits.   The PZEV models have about 75% less emissions than regular vehicles, so you would need a huge increase in fuel economy to get a similar reduction in total emissions from a conventional vehicle.
 
I've been trying to find out if this gives them any CAFE credits – haven't found anything clearly defined yet.
post #25 of 27

My wife has a Patriot with a CVT, they take some time to get used to, but when you realize that keeping the RPMs under say 3000rs gives you a lot of giddyup you are in. Manufacturer is a co-op, they say it will go 150k miles.. The paddle is an electronic control mechanism.

Check out www.jeeppatriot.com and you will find boocoo info under the tranny forum.

Phil, the thread is worthless without pics!

post #26 of 27
Great review Phil.  Nice to know I should start looking for a 05-07 Legacy and not waste my time with the new one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post

 This Legacy falls under the old Vulcan proverb..."The needs of the many, out weigh the needs of the few",


Unfortunately this rings true of other car manufacturers too, namely my beloved BMW.
post #27 of 27

I drove my daughters boyfriend's Subaru 05 Outback sedan with the 3.0 liter engine to pick up pizza the other night. When I accelerated coming out of my housing lan onto the main road I thought the tires might have left the pavement.

The car is quick !  Looked to be alot of fun to drive.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Member Gear Reviews
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Member Gear Reviews › 2010 Subaru Legacy: The car Subaru needs..