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What is the "Epic standard" for turns? - Page 2

post #31 of 41

Please forgive my impertinence.

There are two types of people. Harald Harb is one of those types and you are the other. I would call the HH type a simplifier, distiller, synthesizer--in a word, Platonic. I would call the BB type an analyst, taxonomist, and differentiator--in a word, Aristotelian.

Humanity would be severely handicapped if we eliminated either type from the gene pool, because the dialectic between the Platonists and the Aristotelians is central to the development of structured thought. Do you prefer an inductive or a deductive proof? Either can be the instrument of knowledge.

You are both passionate acolytes of your particular world view. It is a pleasure to partake of your wisdom.

I should perhaps mention that I am a P in Myers-Briggs, not a J. I have no problem entertaining contrary schools of thought at the same brain jam.
post #32 of 41
I thought I was an expert...

And then I find myself reading this thread...

My complete lack of knowledge of who the hell HH is has convinced me I must be awry in my expertness. My lack of knowledge on technique has me quite perplexed as well. I ski, therefore I am.

I think that is my definition of an expert, "I ski, therefore I am." Some of you have touched on this, skiing is not a sport to be analyzed.

Skiing is about yourself and the mountain. The mountain provides us with challenges, an expert skier will meet those challenges. How you interpret those challenges are up to you.

Some of us will think an expert skier can huck 30 foot cliffs; others will only consider one an expert if they can ski sun-cupped crud. It is all perspective.

post #33 of 41
Originally posted by yuki:
I have a hard time with people to aspire to BE something. ....I have NEVER "mastered" a kata and I remain clueless as to what an expert actually is.

Like with skiing I'm still here for the ride, warts and all ...... happy idiot perhaps!
Ditto Yuki - one of my instructors last year asked me "When will you be happy with your skiing?" (he was trying to get me to be less harsh on myself - I knew that but I couldn't resist) my answer "are you?" He just smiled (he is an examiner/trainer)
WE have agreed that being more relaxed (part of better proficiency for me)so I can enjoy skiing more often is GOOD - but I will never be content to ski at the level I am at - I will always want to be BETTER - it is in my nature
post #34 of 41
SCSA wrote,


You may be right. But let me clarify something. There was no malicious intent and I wouldn't call this trolling. I have too much respect for the contributors here.
I am quite willing accept your statement and this thread seems to have been steered back to its original track. However, your posts, like a divining rod, do have a certain way of consistently being pulled in the direction of espousing the methods of a particular very accomplished, in fact, expert skier whatever the initial subject may be. However, enough of that subject for the time being. [img]smile.gif[/img]
post #35 of 41
Bob Mc,

I believe you are correct in saying that, "I ski, therefore I am," is the more meaningful measure of individual fulfillment as a skier than being an "expert."

The industry would do better to have its eye on increasing personal fulfillment than on creating superior technicians. I'm not saying that we don't want to have superior technicians on our slopes, just that this shouldn't be the "measure of merit," but that personal fulfillment should be.

The 3-day rule (that says that a new skier who gives it 3 days is likely to stay with the sport long-term) has a lot to do with getting the new skier up on the mountain, where he or she can dine with compatriots at the summit restaurant, ski some "real runs," see the view, etc. Proficiency gives us license to experience more of the mountain--the experience is the reward, proficiency just gets us there.

People describe themselves differently as they move from curiosity to passionate engagement in the sport. There is a significant psychological shift that occurs between these two statements: "I am a person who skis" and "I am a skier."

My whole job is to assist my students in making that transition. Part of that job is to coach my students in the physical realm, but my coaching would be inadequate if I wasn't just as concerned about student growth in the mental, emotional, and relational realms.
post #36 of 41
Thread Starter 
Your Highness,

You make a wonderful point. That skiing shouldn't all be about being "great" or as you say, being a masterful technician.

And, I couldn't agree with you more. Barnes, actually compliments HH.

But for those of us who are "turn freaks", or at least me anyway, I need something to strive for, to point to. To that end, I'm looking forward to skiing with some here, and other great ones.

Finally, if someone asks me the proverbial question, "What is expert skiing", I think I can tell them. I know where to point them to, I can tell them how to get there. Then, I'll ski off, look around where I am, and smile from ear to ear.

Making sure my hands are in the right place, of course.

You got some catching up to do!

post #37 of 41
Some of us are hockey skaters and some figure skaters, vive la difference.
post #38 of 41
I'm not a ski instructor but i see it like this. When you are learning a physical task like driving a car, riding a bike or skiing, there are in my view 3 stages involved.

1. You can't do it at all, you have to learn the basic movements.

2. You can do it but you have to think all the time about what you are doing and what you are going to do next in order not to hit something, crash etc.

3. You can do it without thinking about it.

It's like when you drive to work and upon arriving there, you don't even know how you got there. Because you were listening to the radio, thinking about what you were going to do at work etc.

So if you could ski down any and i mean any slope fast and in control and meanwhile be thinking about dinner, the girl/boy you met on the chairlift, what you are going to do after skiing etc. Then you would be pretty much be an expert imo. However skiing would not be any fun anymore. It would be like driving a car to work.
post #39 of 41
How many DIFFERENT KINDS of turns can you make well? Making one turn, or set of movements well does not indicate expertise! Tell us how well you can skid when it's necessary, or how some other type of movement other than edging helps your skiing.
A balance of skills, abilities, etc(however you want to name them) must be accessible before one can even describe an "expert".

In the instructional jargon- we refer to those stages as the mechanical, the habitual, and the instinctive.

post #40 of 41
Originally posted by nolo:
I should perhaps mention that I am a P in Myers-Briggs, not a J. I have no problem entertaining contrary schools of thought at the same brain jam.
Are you a bit of a Myers-Briggs authority?
They ran us all through that years ago, for the purposes of teamwork. Our leader was an occupational Psychologist who knew us very well and had been accredited in MBTI (this was in the federal offices of employment here in Oz).

I was line-ball P and J, he tried to get it to weight one way or the other, and in the end had to give me both profiles (INT P and J).

I never quite twigged what my stuff all meant (other than explaining why I was a complete and utter b@stard) but it helped to explain each other and thus achieved the desired aim.
post #41 of 41
Tango, Salsa, Foxtrot, Line Dance, Ballet, Waltz, Barndance (for Midget) ... let the feet follow the music and the head enjoy the ride whilst the heart of the audience quietly murmurs, "I aspire to be"

Oz [img]smile.gif[/img]
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