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Blue tape race skiis

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 

Can anyone tell me what it means when someone says they are selling a blue tape race stock?  Does it just mean that the factory is issuing to a sponsored racer?  Does it also imply different flex than the commercially available?

 

Thanks

post #2 of 18

It's an interesting question but I've never heard of that term.

 

I hope someone can help.

post #3 of 18
post #4 of 18
Thread Starter 

If I interpret this correctly, blue tape is more likely to represent racer/factory issued.  Red tape is more commercial.  I would like to know how to compare the stiffness rating.  Where is the rating?  The racer issued racestock varies in stiffness.  How to read?  Thanks

post #5 of 18

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wta55 View Post

If I interpret this correctly, blue tape is more likely to represent racer/factory issued.  Red tape is more commercial.  I would like to know how to compare the stiffness rating.  Where is the rating?  The racer issued racestock varies in stiffness.  How to read?  Thanks

 

I think it just distinguishes how they were tuned..  from the second worksheet at the bottom:

 

For 2006/2007 race stock skis, Fischer offers only one type of race stock skis.

 

For GS and SL models we offer two types of base and edge finish: Race Service Standard (S) or Worldcup Tuning (T).

 

T tuned skis are packed with blue tape; S tuned skis are packed with red tape.

post #6 of 18

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post

 

 

I think it just distinguishes how they were tuned..  from the second worksheet at the bottom:

 

For 2006/2007 race stock skis, Fischer offers only one type of race stock skis.

 

For GS and SL models we offer two types of base and edge finish: Race Service Standard (S) or Worldcup Tuning (T).

 

T tuned skis are packed with blue tape; S tuned skis are packed with red tape.


Read all the way down to line 38, 39+

 

 

                                     
38   EDGE ANGLES        
39   T and S skis are the same construction.
40   T skis are stiffer than S skis
41   T and S skis differ in base tuning parameters
42                     lateral edge degree           running base edge degree      
43   T tuned skis A0016, A0036, A0106, A0126, A0206, A0306, A0356, A0406, A0466     3,0°       0,3°
44   S tuned skis A0056, A0146, A0156, A0216, A0316, A0366, A0416, A0476     3,0°       0,7°
45    
post #7 of 18
Thread Starter 

That makes sense.  So, the color of tape distinguishes tuning.  How does one differentiate stiffness?  Thanks

 

post #8 of 18

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wta55 View Post

That makes sense.  So, the color of tape distinguishes tuning.  How does one differentiate stiffness?  Thanks

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by comprex View Post

 


Read all the way down to line 38, 39+

 

39   T and S skis are the same construction.
40   T skis are stiffer than S skis
41   T and S skis differ in base tuning parameters
post #9 of 18

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wta55 View Post

That makes sense.  So, the color of tape distinguishes tuning.  How does one differentiate stiffness?  Thanks

 


Stiffness is what you are checking for when you flex a ski by holding the tip with one hand and pressing the topsheet at various locations with the other. Of course, hand flexing is pretty subjective.
 

 

Various manufacturers have different systems for rating their skis. Many of the folks I deal with in racing know this stuff. I'm sure guys here know it too.

 

Skis are generally manufactured, then matched after they come off the line, especially race stock skis. The way that skis get chosen for WC race stock vs. consumer race stock varies by manufacturer, but the manufacturer will take samples of skis and give them to testers looking for the speed of the bases. They will distinguish between cold and warm conditions, etc. Then they correlate this information back to the production runs and hand pick skis for WC weeding out those with defects, imperfect flex, etc. What consumers can get are very good, because the race lines are separate from the production line.

 

Presumably the guys that published this table do their own checking of the skis and sort them out as they say that T is stiffer than S. Its hard to know for sure; I don't speak the language of the site.

 

MR

post #10 of 18

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post

 

 

 

 

39   T and S skis are the same construction.
40   T skis are stiffer than S skis
41   T and S skis differ in base tuning parameters


Anyone want to explain how 2 skis that have the same construction can have (noticeably) different stiffness?

There is always going to be a slight mismatch (hence flex matching of individual skis) but not enough to call them different stiffness skis...

post #11 of 18

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by krp8128 View Post

 


Anyone want to explain how 2 skis that have the same construction can have (noticeably) different stiffness?

There is always going to be a slight mismatch (hence flex matching of individual skis) but not enough to call them different stiffness skis...


Most race skis have a wood core. Right there you have significate opportunity for variance. Add to that epoxy and the fact that many race stock skis are built by hand and there is plenty of room for minor variance.

 

Also, and I do presume here, the manufacturers know that they are building product for anyone from a 220 pound, massively strong racer down to a 140 pound, relatively weak (I understand this dude is massively strong for his size) racer and this is just considering men. There are no mens or womens skis, per se, so they have to allow for women of a wide range of weight and strength as well. This totally discounts ability as they likely assume that everyone has low FIS points. So I'll bet that these hand laid up skis also are adjusted deliberately to account for this range of skier weight and strength.

 

I'll reiterate that the preceding paragraph is speculation. I do have a friend that travels to the Stoeckli factory to pick up skis, I will ask him next time I see him.

 

MR

post #12 of 18

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wta55 View Post

Can anyone tell me what it means when someone says they are selling a blue tape race stock?  Does it just mean that the factory is issuing to a sponsored racer?  Does it also imply different flex than the commercially available?

 

Thanks


BTW, this is the first time I've heard of red tape vs blue tape stock as well.
 

 

MR

post #13 of 18

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MastersRacer View Post

 


Most race skis have a wood core. Right there you have significate opportunity for variance. Add to that epoxy and the fact that many race stock skis are built by hand and there is plenty of room for minor variance.

 

Also, and I do presume here, the manufacturers know that they are building product for anyone from a 220 pound, massively strong racer down to a 140 pound, relatively weak (I understand this dude is massively strong for his size) racer and this is just considering men. There are no mens or womens skis, per se, so they have to allow for women of a wide range of weight and strength as well. This totally discounts ability as they likely assume that everyone has low FIS points. So I'll bet that these hand laid up skis also are adjusted deliberately to account for this range of skier weight and strength.

 

I'll reiterate that the preceding paragraph is speculation. I do have a friend that travels to the Stoeckli factory to pick up skis, I will ask him next time I see him.

 

MR


I'm quite familiar with ski construction, that is why I found that comment confusing. To me, "same construction" means the same materials,weights of materials (i.e. don't use light wood in one ski and heavy, hard wood in another), same material dimensions etc. Even "assembled" (it still goes into a press) by hand most of the variance should be taken out by attention to detail. Given this, I really don't see the possibility of a big enough difference to make an "A" and "B" flex pile.

 

I bet what they are trying to say is that the skis have the same materials, i.e. base, glass,metal,glass,core,glass topsheet but are made with different flexes (due to changes within those materials). I guess it is all just semantics...

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MastersRacer View Post

 


BTW, this is the first time I've heard of red tape vs blue tape stock as well.
 

 

MR


Maybe this is just a made up term for this retailer then?

post #14 of 18

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by krp8128 View Post

 


I'm quite familiar with ski construction, that is why I found that comment confusing. To me, "same construction" means the same materials,weights of materials (i.e. don't use light wood in one ski and heavy, hard wood in another), same material dimensions etc. Even "assembled" (it still goes into a press) by hand most of the variance should be taken out by attention to detail. Given this, I really don't see the possibility of a big enough difference to make an "A" and "B" flex pile.

 

I bet what they are trying to say is that the skis have the same materials, i.e. base, glass,metal,glass,core,glass topsheet but are made with different flexes (due to changes within those materials). I guess it is all just semantics...

 

 


Maybe this is just a made up term for this retailer then?


Do you think that the manufacturers may specifically create different flexes through adjusting the build or just rely on ski lengths to accomodate different strength and weight skiers?
 

 

I won't argue that given a production run of skis that are intended to 'be the same', that the flex pattern should be so close to the same throughout that you shouldn't notice a difference.

 

MR

post #15 of 18

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MastersRacer View Post

 


BTW, this is the first time I've heard of red tape vs blue tape stock as well.
 

 

MR

 

Maybe this tape thing is Fischer specific?

post #16 of 18

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post

 

 

 

Maybe this tape thing is Fischer specific?


I suspect it is this vendor http://www.ulks.bystrzyca.pl. From their spreadsheet, it sounds like they tune the skis for you.

 

Race stock skis come in wonderful condition from the factory, however, we all have different needs, particularly in the base structure, due to local snow conditions. I think that knowledge of the location of use of the ski, particularly for speed, is important in any treatment of the ski. BTW, a 3 degree bevel for a speed ski is too sharp in most conditions for anyone not on the WC or injected snow. A 2 degree side and .7 or 1 base bevels are what most tuners I talk to (former WC tuners included) recommend.

 

Any Polish speakers out there that can answer this question by viewing this site?
 

MR

post #17 of 18

This blue/red tape constitues to "service" field, so blue is T, while red is S. Here's definition of T and S from Fischer racing catalog:

 

Giant Slalom and Slalom models are available with different finishes: S-Tuning or T-Tuning. The skis are the same for both tuning options. World Cup skis, however, have T-Tuning, which requires even more manufacturing steps than the S-Tuning. With T-Tuning, for example, the skis are aligned manually, there is also a special measuring procedure for stiffness and additional stone grinding is used. T-Tuning skis are also somewhat stiffer than the S-Tuning skis. We recommend skis with T-Tuning for Europa Cup and FIS racers as they are tuned for slopes that have been iced with water, for artificial snow and for higher speeds and larger radiuses.

 

And this is Fischer specific thing, it's not common marking for every vendor.

 

Edit: If you open this Excel file (www.ulks.bystrzyca.pl/sprzet/danefischer.xls) you can see it on your own. It's not in Polish but in English. And web www.ulks.bystrzyca.pl is web from ski club Czarna Gora, so there's nothing specific on their web about this thing. This Excel file is pretty much standard racing service file for ordering Fischer products... from racing service of course not from normal store.

post #18 of 18

I saw that text but wasn't clear it was official Fischer. Thanks for that info.

 

Do you know if Fischer in particular and other manufacturers fabricate specific flexes in their skis. Is flex variation by design, or simply by happenstance?

 

MR

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