or Connect
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Phantom Foot Method???????

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 
I have been told by an epic member to learn the Phantom Foot Method. I don't quite understand the concept. If anyone knows how this method works, I would appreciate it if you could explain it to me.
post #2 of 15
Here: http://harbskisystems.com/olg2.htm

I want SCSA to answer your question, though!
post #3 of 15
I always thought the phantom foot was to be avoided at all costs (Vermont Ski Safety ACL awareness)!!

Phantom Phoot
post #4 of 15
The movement itself is one of many moves long used by atheletic skiers. That specific name was created for and by a commercial ski training system. Here is some info: http://www.onthesnow.com/news/techtalk/2001-01-12.html

As Tanglefoot noted it is uncomfortably close sounding to the #1 cause of serious injury to skiers.
post #5 of 15
A good example of "fufu-for-marketing" phraseology. We "make up" too many jargon terms in this sport that really describe nothing and create more confusion than clarification.

"Phantom Foot" refers to the role the tail of the ski plays extending to the rear of the leg like a "phantom foot" that, in an out of balance to rear situation, can produce leverage that pushes the tibia of the lower leg forward at the knee and can injure the ACL. (actually not a poor metaphor)

The "Phantom Move" is not a "method" but just one of many training exercises of the Primary Movments Teaching System (PMTS). It is not a "way to ski", but a "way to learn". It's use is fully is described in H. Harb's books and videos. It involves the movment of the lightened inside ski (free foot) toward the outside ski (stance foot) as the free foot is tipped toward its little toe edge. So labled by a student who couldn't clearly describe the movment he was watching.

For more info see www.harbskisystems.com or www.pmts.org to find an Accredited PMTS instructor near you.
post #6 of 15
Is it true to say HH has basically taken what used to be considered the "Austrian way" of skiing/racing ie lifting the inside foot, and packaged it in an easy to understand form?
post #7 of 15
More accurately, not the Austrian way, but the simple, precise and efficient movements that have been in use, for some time, by the best skiers the world over (racers, free skiers, extreme skiers, etc). These movements are generic to great skiing, not specific to any labled style, much less a "national" technique. The Austrians didn't invent them, their racers just do them very accurately and with less excess of other interfering activities.
post #8 of 15
I believe Arcmeister is correct.

I also credit Harb with the popularization of "little toe side" and "big toe side".

However, I never use his phantom foot terminology (although we teach a system that is non-wedge based), because:
1. It becomes perceived of as a method of skiing (witness this string), and therefore becomes overused and abused.
2. I'm not convinced that it doesn't create other problems by instructor over use (like all exercises can do when used to a fault). One problem I see is excessive angulation of the torso to the outside of the turn, because of the excessive tipping of the inside knee inward. Another is that too much concentration on the inside leg (phantom leg) really can inhibit proper use of the outside leg. I think both of these show in Harb's tapes.

post #9 of 15
The "phantom move" is a balance drill, NOT a way to ski. Even Harald sez "lifting is learning, lightening is skiing".

After working with PMTS drills myself, and working with students, there can be some problems with the drill, and people can get bad habits from it. If it's done incorrectly.

Only focusing on the fact that it is "one footed skiing" will not get the skier there.

The example given about the funny upper torso stance to balance on the stance foot while picking up the free foot is a perfect example. Why is that happening, hmmmm? So is slapping the free foot against the stance foot and displacing the stance ski to make the turn...

Like any GOOD skiing drills and/or progressions, these things must be demonstrated and taught correctly to achieve the desired results.

Sometimes skiers can and will overdo a particular drill, because the drill itself is misunderstood as "THE way to ski".

A musician taught in marching band with sheet music may NEVER get to the point of playing jazz. One is a very "set" way to play, the other is improvisational.

I personally think the mountain is more rewarding when I play jazz with my feet, instead of martial tunes, or even rock and roll...
post #10 of 15
Hey SnoKarver!

post #11 of 15
Hmm, ok. I notice the Austrian racers had (not so much these days) a strong tendency to lift their inside foot and even HH acknowledged this in his first book.
post #12 of 15
I agree with SnoKarver as well. People were doing the "phantom foot" drill in the '70's. I thought of it as a "fundamental" balance drill to train the muscles for good downhill edge carving.
post #13 of 15
Pete, all skiers who carve, shorten their inside foot (relative to the outside foot), and tip it towards the turn. The goal is for both skis to carve more or less equally (depending on a few variables). If that differential in leg length occurs before the edge change is complete, the inside foot (for the new turn) will come off the snow. A late edge change can happen for many reasons--such as an uncontrolled rebound, or just a plain lazy mistake in timing.

I believe that the skiers that I admire, usually make that edge change while keeping in contact with snow--especially with the new skis--as they require so much less rotational force to turn and initiate so much better on the edge.

This, and the shortness and sidecut of the skis, is what allows Harb and all of us to use the movement of the inside ski into the turn so effectively these days.

But, yeah, JimBobBubba and SnoKarver are right. We've been working on this a long time. Only now, we can do it better.
post #14 of 15
post #15 of 15

Well said
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Instruction & Coaching