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slalom turns - Page 2

post #31 of 118

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by astra-ZTL View Post

To cfr:

 

Are the  first frame angulation and 3 and 4 frames inclination you talking about?

 


Yes, frame 4 is inclination. 1 st one is not an angulation per se - I think it appears angulated due to the view angle and too much of upper body forward lean.

 

Here is the angulation example:

 

post #32 of 118

ears on helmet optional

post #33 of 118

CFR,

Not much angulation? Can you expand on that comment?

post #34 of 118

Where does find this Gregory Gurshman book? i searched the web and amazon, no trace?!! Only reference is on the website "youcanski.com", which in his bio refers to a book he is working on, the quote from his web-bio is "He currently works on a book "Alpine Skiing Through the Eyes of a Coach". strange, please advise where i can snag a copy, thanks much.

post #35 of 118

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by astra-ZTL View Post

Hi Ghost!

 

 

 What do you mean by throwing yourself around to tip of the skis?

 

 

you mean go more straight in the end of the turn?

 

Like that? (Picture from GG book)

 

 

 Clear with that!!
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What I mean is that you are aggressively and deliberately moving your upper body and centre of mass inside the next turn.  Good.  That is where it needs to go, but how you move it there could be improved.  You do not want to stretch the connection of your old inside ski new outside ski with the snow.  Do not throw yourself into position (like diving off a cliff), because after the push there isn't enough contact between ski and snow, your legs get stretched too long or you loose contact.   Maybe right now the way you are skiing, you have to move yourself into the new position because you didn't do something easier earlier, namely what you should do at the end of the previous turn.

 

What I'm talking about at the end of the turn, is not really about the diagram.  What I mean is if you are in a turn, your outside leg is loaded up pretty good, taking a lot of force.  If you suddenly stop taking that force and let the leg collapse, you will move to the outside of the turn, using your own momentum.  You are already doing this to some extent, but if you let the leg relax and stop turning you in the old turn sooner, closer to the its apex, while its radius is still small, and more suddenly you will be carried to the new position by your own momentum with no need to put yourself there with your own muscular efforts.  I think Justanotherskipro sees the same thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro View Post

Astra when you watch those three videos do you see how smoothly he moves from one turn to the next? Also notice how his pelvis moves into each turn without any vertical (upward) pop. Contrast that with how you are moving so much more to accomplish the same turns?  My thought is that you hang onto the old turn while hurrying to establish the next turn. The result is the staccatto quality you show. This will eventually give way as you gain the confidence to flatten the outside ski to release it, instead of trying to overcome it. The idea here is to eliminate the need for the pop and it will go away...

don't hang onto the old turn quite so long.  Let it go and let yourself move into the new turn.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by astra-ZTL View Post

 Thanks a lot!! But I'm not a kid! I am 38 years old mister!

 

 

 Off cource I have race influence!! (remember hot gues in licra ) thats the style which described in GG articles.

re training cource I wrote earlier, its set by resort.I trained several times on race cources, but only in stubbies not poles.

 

We are a group of amatures who skiing together. Non of those people are teaching me.

 

But I trained some of them! 

 

 

 It's your opinion! It's your right!

 


You're very young (18 with 20 years experience at it)!

 

 

 

post #36 of 118

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dustyfog View Post

Where does find this Gregory Gurshman book? i searched the web and amazon, no trace?!! 


The book was printed in Russian. That explains why you couldn't find it on Amazon
 

post #37 of 118

You are stuck because you don't have a clean release.  You throw your body across the skis and into the new turn.

 

1) Flex the stance leg to release, and untip the skis with the feet.

2) Pull the feet back to recenter.

3) Tip the feet to edge.

 

Do not rely on the position of the upper body to set the edge angles.  Instead, set the edge angles with the feet.  The edge angle defines the position of the upper body. It is not the position of the body that defines the edge angle.

 

Think of your feet as each having a different role.  Think of the outside foot/leg as the stance foot/leg.  This is the leg you balance on.  Think of the inside leg as the "guide leg".  This leg sets the edge angle, the stance leg matches it.....

 

 

 


Edited by BigE - 6/7/2009 at 08:31 pm GMT
post #38 of 118

 Quote:

Originally Posted by astra-ZTL View Post

To cfr:

 

Are the  first frame angulation and 3 and 4 frames inclination you talking about?

 

 

Quote:Originally Posted by cfr View Post

 


Yes, frame 4 is inclination. 1 st one is not an angulation per se - I think it appears angulated due to the view angle and too much of upper body forward lean.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro View Post

CFR,

Not much angulation? Can you expand on that comment?


Skipro,

 

In my book, angulation is breaking in the hip to a side with upper body being somewhat straight and facing downhill during the fall line part of a turn - pretty much like Stiegler's pix demonstrates..

 

On the other hand, in the 1st frame on Astra's sequence she appears to be helping herself in transition from one inclined turn with her right ski locked using upper body movement towards the new turn. In addition to that her upper body in this frame has very profound forward lean, which from the viewer's angle increases "angulation".. Bottom line, it is a fall line vs a transition. Hope I was clear enough.

 

Cheers,

 

cfr

 

post #39 of 118

I like what E has to say about throwing the body across the skis. The present crossover and edge change happen in a staccatto manner because the chosen release move includes the huck and a simultaneous staccatto edge set. This can clearly be seen in the 7 second video where the edge sets actually trip her repeatedly. The rest of the videos show less of this habit but it is still there. Unrefined hucking requires so much effort to just regain a somewhat balanced stance. It also delays working the ski through the control phase and explains the need for the strong edge work late in the turn.

 

I also like the idea CFR brings up about lateral hip flexing, although I see knee and hip angulation in the videos and the four frame still shots. Hip angulation isn't limited to sideways bending CFR. A countered stance often accompanies hip - knee angulation.

 What I see that hasn't been mentioned is the limited knee and ankle flexion / extension. Especially in the last trip where Astra's chest is touching her thighs right before the last huck. In response she rocks back and flexes the knees. Although the ankles don't do much even in that very dynamic recovery.

 

Astra the videos you posted of your friend show completely different skills application. Yes Greg's article suggests the huck can be a short cut but I don't remember reading anything about a staccatto edge set being part of that transition. In your case, I suspect you use the edge set as a trigger for launching your body into the new turn instead of allowing it to migrate there as you work the skis with your feet to shape the end of the turn. Try moving the body across the skis without the edge set. The edge angle should get smaller and smaller until the skis release because of the low edge angle, not as a function of the edge set and POP.

post #40 of 118

astra,

 

Some really good information above.  One of the reasons I feel you have stopped progressing had a lot to do with your timing in the turns.  You are rushing to get to your now outside ski in the transition.  Many times you have extended to the now outside ski without releasing the edge of the old outside ski.  That is why you have to pick it up off the snow to release it. 

 

Work on flattening and then tipping the old outside ski on the new edge before you change your weight to the new outside ski.  This will make your transition much smoother, keep your core moving in the new turn direction and allow you to transfer your weight to the new outside ski in a more balanced manner (progressively).

 

You ski very nicely, the above will take you to the next level in your skiing.

 

RW

post #41 of 118
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cfr View Post

 


 1 st one is not an angulation per se - I think it appears angulated due to the view angle and too much of upper body forward lean.

 

Here is the angulation example:

 

The angulation you talking about was couple frames earlier.

 



 Thats the angulation you'll talking about?

post #42 of 118
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dustyfog View Post

Where does find this Gregory Gurshman book? i searched the web and amazon, no trace?!! Only reference is on the website "youcanski.com", which in his bio refers to a book he is working on, the quote from his web-bio is "He currently works on a book "Alpine Skiing Through the Eyes of a Coach". strange, please advise where i can snag a copy, thanks much.

It's on his website. But only in russian.

http://youcanski.com/ru/  the russian version named "Пьянта Су"



 

post #43 of 118
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro View Post

Astra when you watch those three videos do you see how smoothly he moves from one turn to the next? Also notice how his pelvis moves into each turn without any vertical (upward) pop. Contrast that with how you are moving so much more to accomplish the same turns?  My thought is that you hang onto the old turn while hurrying to establish the next turn. The result is the staccatto quality you show. This will eventually give way as you gain the confidence to flatten the outside ski to release it, instead of trying to overcome it. The idea here is to eliminate the need for the pop and it will go away...

WE worked on this smooth moves and short legs in betwen the turns. than film the results.
 

 

And its indoor slope. Kind of fitness center. The snow is very soft, not for agressive moves.

 

But I fully agree with you that staccatto moves are not good, should be more smoothly.

post #44 of 118
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post

 


 

What I'm talking about at the end of the turn, is not really about the diagram.  What I mean is if you are in a turn, your outside leg is loaded up pretty good, taking a lot of force.  If you suddenly stop taking that force and let the leg collapse, you will move to the outside of the turn, using your own momentum.  You are already doing this to some extent, but if you let the leg relax and stop turning you in the old turn sooner, closer to the its apex, while its radius is still small, and more suddenly you will be carried to the new position by your own momentum with no need to put yourself there with your own muscular efforts.  I think Justanotherskipro sees the same thing.

don't hang onto the old turn quite so long.  Let it go and let yourself move into the new turn.

 

Thanks Ghost.good advice.

 

We'll try tomorrow on snow.

post #45 of 118
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigE View Post

Do not rely on the position of the upper body to set the edge angles.  Instead, set the edge angles with the feet.  The edge angle defines the position of the upper body. It is not the position of the body that defines the edge angle.

 

 

You talking about knees?

post #46 of 118
Thread Starter 
to cfr: 
Quote:
 

and facing downhill during the fall line part of a turn - pretty much like Stiegler's pix demonstrates..

I think what Stiegler demonstrates us it's not in the fall line. She pasted the fall line.

post #47 of 118
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro View Post

In your case, I suspect you use the edge set as a trigger for launching your body into the new turn instead of allowing it to migrate there as you work the skis with your feet to shape the end of the turn. Try moving the body across the skis without the edge set. The edge angle should get smaller and smaller until the skis release because of the low edge angle, not as a function of the edge set and POP.
 

Another word you saying that the maximum pressure on the skis is in the end of my turn (frame 1)? Than POP and I move to another one?

post #48 of 118

In a way, that it what it would LOOK like.  But what I am suggesting is that the tipping movements start at the foot and not at the hip.  Starting at the foot creates a platform, and provides something for the upper body to balance against.  Starting the movement at the feet puts a tension in the body that helps drag the body into a nicely balanced position.  Starting at the hip does not do that, nor does inclining at the top of the turn.

 

Your photo of angulation is very inclined.  Look at the perpedicular to the top sheet.  It points high in your body.  That is inclination.  Look at Steigler, the line drawn 90 degrees from the top sheet points very low in the body.

 

 

post #49 of 118
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigE View Post

In a way, that it what it would LOOK like.  But what I am suggesting is that the tipping movements start at the foot and not at the hip.  Starting at the foot creates a platform, and provides something for the upper body to balance against.  Starting the movement at the feet puts a tension in the body that helps drag the body into a nicely balanced position.  Starting at the hip does not do that, nor does inclining at the top of the turn. 

I still don't understand how I should tipping the skis.

 

Which move of the foot puts the skis on the edges right at the begining of the turn?

 


Edited by astra-ZTL - 6/9/2009 at 03:39 am GMT
post #50 of 118

I think what BigE is saying is that if you just think of tipping the skis onto their edge, concentrating solely on what is going on below the ankles, and not think about anything else, or at most concentrate on tipping the new inside ski onto its little toe edge by tipping that foot, and allowing you body to move naturally you will be less likely to throw yourself into the turns.

 

The actual physics of it are necessarily that the hips knees move inside, but it's a cause and effect train of thought that is having you now exagerate the upper body movements and having them precede the turn.

 

Be careful the first time you try this technique; it could trip you up.  BigE's view is confusing if you don't have the background in his system.  You and I know that a ski will not tip without the bones coming out of the ski boot adopting a different direction.  However you don't have to think about moving the body attached to top of those bones to tip the skis.  I skied for decades, before finding this forum, without thinking about much of anything except the position of my skis on the snow.

post #51 of 118

The CSCF says: first ankles, knees then hips move into the turn.

post #52 of 118

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by astra-ZTL View Post

 

I still don't understand how I should tipping the skis.

 

Which move of the foot puts the skis on the edges right at the begining of the turn?

 


Edited by astra-ZTL - 6/9/2009 at 03:39 am GMT

Astra,

 

Here is more visual illustration of where is the movement should start. Sit straight on the edge of a chair, body straight up, knees bent at 90 degrees. Imagine you have skis on (or just put them on). Now if you want to put skis on edge you have two ways to do it. One is moving your knees to a side, which will force you feet below the ankles roll putting skis on the edge. This is what you appear to be doing in the videos to change the edge and tip the skis, only your movement starts even higher with your body, then hip, then knees, then ankles, then skis.

Another way of doing it, going back to the chair, is to start tipping by rolling your feet below your ankles, thus putting skis on the edge. Knee movement associated with that move is a result, not the cause of the tipping. What BigE is trying to explain is that your transition and tipping movements should start at your feet. The rest - knees, hip, body will follow to accommodate the new position. In other words, you should be in angulated or inclined position because you put your skis on the edge and not to get into angulated or inclined position because you want to tip your skis. This is seemingly a small thing, but it makes a big difference in how refined your transition is.

 

Hope this helps,

 

cfr

post #53 of 118

E's point of view is that the tipping starts in the ankles and moves up the kinetic chain. It's something that the PSIA has put out there as well. The only problem with that idea is that it is often misunderstood to mean that the body is moving slightly later than the ankles in a crack the whip style of movement. I see this all the time in a variety of skiers but the most often occurances are when a skier is trying to be ultra precise and they focus on moving their feet first. They start posing, instead of skiing. Moving from static position to static position instead of staying in constant motion.  

 

A few years ago I attended a clinic with a demo team selector who offered the following idea. "While the rolling of the ankles can focus pressure on the edges, it cannot produce more than a few degees of tipping. To change the edge angle more than that the rest of the body needs to be involved." 

A thought that was echoed by Ron Lemaster recently. He offered the idea that the body is constantly moving and the legs are articulating to keep the CoM and the BoS aligned on an axis perpendicular to the top of the moving skis. The legs flex and extend to change the distance between the CoM and the BoS but it is this alignment that allows us to remain upright upon the skis. How a particular skier chooses to use inclination and angulation to produce this alignment varies. Ligety tends to use more hip angulation, while Bode and Vonn use more knee angulation. Those differences are individual choice based on what works best for their body but the outcome is the same. The Com and the Bos align along an axis perpendicular to the skis. It is the alignment of the CoM and the BoS that needs to happen long before the fine motor movements like the ankle roll can be effectively employed.

 

 

So IMO as a mental reminder rolling the ankles to focus pressure on the right edges it is a very good thought. Beyond that it is the balancing activities of the entire body that puts us in a position to engage the edges at a high enough edge angle to redirect our momentum into the new turn.

 

As far as when the direction change occurs, I agree with Bob Barnes who pointed out to me that it happens as a result of releasing the old edges. Said another way, It's because we stop resisting gravity and redirecting our linear momentum into the old turn. The example he used to support this opinion, is the side slip. No new edge platform occurs. In fact, we never get totally off the old edge platform, we just lose edge purchase. And we still change directions. So while the engagement of the new edges can hasten and amplify this, it isn't necessary to push against the new platform to produce a direction change. In many case I see skiers over do this and the rest of the turn suffers as a result.

 

To return this discussion to Gushman's article for a moment, In post 23 you posted  an example of a strong edge and pressuring the skis during the first third of a turn, that produces a closing radius effect during the first third of the turn. did you notice that it is followed by an opening radius remainder of that turn? Did you also notice that in that article he goes on to say that this is just one option. He's not alone in the opinion that being able to move the highest pressure and highest edge angle to any part of the turn is part of the skills set you need to race at higher levels.

 

Every turn requires us to decide where that high pressure and edge angle moment should occur and how we will produce it. At present Astra you do that in the last part of your turns and have trouble moving to the next turn smoothly as a direct consequence of this choice. Mostly because your body is too far inside the turn and getting it to move into the new turn requires a huge move. As one of many options hang onto that move it will come in handy at some point but explore the other alternatives as well.

 


Edited by justanotherskipro - 6/9/2009 at 05:21 pm GMT


Edited by justanotherskipro - 6/9/2009 at 05:46 pm GMT
post #54 of 118

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro View Post

E's point of view is that the tipping starts in the ankles and moves up the kinetic chain. It's something that the PSIA has put out there as well. The only problem with that idea is that it is often misunderstood to mean that the body is moving slightly later than the ankles in a crack the whip style of movement. I see this all the time in a variety of skiers but the most often occurances are when a skier is trying to be ultra precise and they focus on moving their feet first. They start posing, instead of skiing. Moving from static position to static position instead of staying in constant motion.  

 

A few years ago I attended a clinic with a demo team selector who offered the following idea. "While the rolling of the ankles can focus pressure on the edges, it cannot produce more than a few degees of tipping. To change the edge angle more than that the rest of the body needs to be involved." (1)

A thought that was echoed by Ron Lemaster recently. He offered the idea that the body is constantly moving and the legs are articulating to keep the CoM and the BoS aligned on an axis perpendicular to the top of the moving skis. The legs flex and extend to change the distance between the CoM and the BoS but it is this alignment that allows us to remain upright upon the skis. How a particular skier chooses to use inclination and angulation to produce this alignment varies. Ligety tends to use more hip angulation, while Bode and Vonn use more knee angulation. Those differences are individual choice based on what works best for their body but the outcome is the same. The Com and the Bos align along an axis perpendicular to the skis. It is the alignment of the CoM and the BoS that needs to happen long before the fine motor movements like the ankle roll can be effectively employed.(2)

 

(1) same as saying "ankles, knees then hips"

 

(2) Balance as we define it in Canada, is simply the condition where the resultant vector of all forces on the Center of Mass points into the base of support.  The base of support consists of the smallest polygon surrounding all points of the skier that touch the snow.

 

eg. If the skier is standing with skis parallel, the base of support is a rectange that surrounds his skis.  If the skier is arcing a turn on one ski, the base of support is the shape made by the bent ski and a straight line from tip of inside edge to tail of inside edge.  If the skier puts the pole down, the pole adds a vertex to this shape polygon.

 

So, to say that the CM and BOS need to be aligned just says that the skier is not falling down....

 

If the skier is aligned as suggested in bold, once the skier tips the feet the alignment is gone.  The bold suggests that fine motor movements like ankle roll are no longer effective.  So, rolling the ankle makes further rolling of the ankle ineffective. 

 

To me, this means that the rolling of the ankle and the movement of the CM should take place at the same time.  This contradicts the idea that hips follow knees which follow ankles. 

 

To my view, simultaneous movement of the CM and rolling of the ankle cannot be learned effectively unless the movement is taught to start at the feet.  This starting point is necessary, since the skier needs to learn the effect of tipping the skis at the feet.  Similarly, the skier needs to learn how the knee is involved (it's much more than actively rotating the femur in the hip socket....)

 

The key element I'm suggesting is that the edge engagement in the new turn should occur HIGH in the turn (like Gurshman also suggests.)  One way to learn how to do this is to actively tip the skis, with the tipping originating at the feet.  This means that you can be very precise with the fore/aft direction that the body is taking.  Hence, the idea of tipping, then pulling the feet back to move forwards. 

 

Intense tipping will require a stronger pull back to get the CM above the shovels of the skis and have that part of the ski initiate the turn. The full range of tipping/pull back can be used, even no tipping and no pull back. No tipping/no pull back is what is commonly happens when the skier just leans into the turn.  This is not recommended due to the risk of overweighting the inside ski, as well as delaying edge engagement. No pull back and intense tipping puts the skier in the back seat, and can be called "park and ride".

 

So to edge the skis, we teach one should start at the feet.  The body will move laterally to where it needs to move to continue to balance and resist the turn forces.  It is your choice as to how aggressively or progressively the feet are pulled back through transition and into turn initiation, but it will usually correlate to the agressiveness of the tipping of the feet.

 

For an interesting viewpoint, check out the book "The Essentials of Skiing"  by Harald Harb.

 

Gurshman bases his teaching on the GS turn. Harb focusses on the SL turn. There are fundamental differences in their approaches.  Both are well worth knowing -- they have both influenced modern skiing.

 

post #55 of 118

O.K. Big E,

We disagree and here's why.

  • Lean against a wall with your shoulder and get the feet at least three feet away from the wall. Now roll the ankles away from the wall and see what happens. Does it draw you away from the wall? Hardly.  When the feet are that far out away from the body that move does nothing but move the pressure focus to the outside of the feet. The body needs to be already in a nearly vertical position (CoM relative to the BoS) for that move to have any positive effect. How do we get into a stance where the ankle roll will have this positive effect? By getting the body over the feet or by getting the feet under the body. In either case the ankle roll is secondary to getting the CoM and BoS alignment correct.

I think it's obvious that I cannot convince you otherwise but I hope you take a moment to consider the idea that the mental construction of the catch phrase "roll the feet and then let the body follow" is very much like the term knee angulation. Sideways bending of the knee only breaks the knee. Both have a message but cannot be taken literally. I honestly feel we are probably closer in agreement about Astra's path to improvement. We just disagree on the trigger.

 

post #56 of 118

I think your static exercise misrepresents what I'm saying. I never say "untip to release".

 

I did post "Flex to release".  

 

As a result of  this event the body is moving out of the new turn.  As the body passes through neutral, the goal is to tip the feet to begin edge engagement. I'm not saying that one should tip the feet to release the turn forces.  The tipping of the skiis is to begin edge engagement -- to initiate the new turn.

 

A sideways bending of the knee is not possible.  For the knees to move into the turn, the femurs need to rotate, however, it's not their rotation that is the primary cause -- it's a result of the attempt to maintain balance by moving the body onto the tipping platform.  Clearly, the hips will follow as the alignment of the CM and BOS continues.

 

 

 

post #57 of 118

E,

I'd add that the body continues to move uninterrupted into the new turn. So it's the leg, hip and torso movements working in concert to create the alignment that allows a small movement like an ankle roll to produce edge purchase. So untipping the ski becomes just as important as tipping the skis. Just like continuing to flex without ever extending is impossible. 

post #58 of 118

See what you started Astra?

 

 

The fact of the matter is that you cannot just tip the ski with the ankles alone, at least not without Boots made in the last 60 years or so.  The ski is attached to the ski boot, and when the ski tips the top of the boot must move over.  The shin bone is connected to the Knee bone, the knee bone is connected to the..

 

However, THINKING about doing it BigE's way, will prevent you from putting your body into too much tension and pulling your ski over into the required angle.

post #59 of 118

It also produces a lack of dynamic body movement when taken too literally. I can't tell you how many skiers I've coached who use that as the reasoning behind getting stuck in a static position too far inside at the end of the turn. Even E wrote "as the body passes through neutral the goal is to tip the feet to begin edge engagement." If the body is "passing" over the feet it is in motion, or said another way it is moving. So I don't see the need to debate that any further. We all agree that the ankle roll move doesn't occur in isolation, or while the rest of the body has stopped moving. Which was the point I was making. What remains is IMO where we say the transition starts. To me the transition doesn't start at the end of the turn as the skis get near flat and the edges release, it begins when we begin reducing the edge angle. If that highest edge angle moment occurs in the first third of the turn, the transition off that high edge angle will begin there as well.


Edited by justanotherskipro - 6/10/2009 at 04:37 am GMT
post #60 of 118

The danger in thinking it a "top down" process is that you get what Astra is doing -- by leading the turn with the upper body she's throwing the body into the turn.  This is not modern thinking in any school of skiing that I am aware of. In fact, throwing or falling into the new turn is not what we teach up here.

 

To my reasoning, the transition starts where the previous turn ends -- when we stop turning in that direction.  This is when we release the CM from it's arc. Turning LESS is not the start of transition -- completing the turn is....

 

EDIT:  Note:  1) flexing to release stops throwing the body into the turn.  Using an "up" move does not. 

2) Continuing to "tip the feet" once the edges are engaged provides the platform upon which the body balances.  Specifically, tipping the inside foot and allowing the outside to match using a functional leg tension provides for far more certain balance point than setting the edge angle with the upper body.   Setting the edge angle with the upper body means that the skier spends much time out of balance with less early pressure on the skis.  The tracks in Gurshman's picture cannot be created by throwing the body into the turn.

 


Edited by BigE - 6/10/2009 at 01:53 pm GMT
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