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slalom turns

post #1 of 118
Thread Starter 

Hello

Would you please comment my slalom turns

I read Gregory Gurshman's book, start practice and this is my third season on skis.

Studied only book

 

http://photofile.ru/users/a_str_a/video/v8290618c98/view/

 

http://photofile.ru/users/a_str_a/video/v843972426b/view/

 


Edited by astra-ZTL - 6/3/2009 at 10:07 pm GMT
post #2 of 118

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by astra-ZTL View Post

Hello

Would you please comment my slalom turns

I read Gregory Gurshman's book, start practice and this is my third season on skis.

Studied only book

 



 

Only read a book, aye?  Are you trying to tell us you never had any formal coaching,,, just self taught?  That's how your post reads.  Perhaps a miscommunication.  If not, then skiing around in shin pads, making race type turns, on a slope where obvious race training is being conducted, throws up big red flags of a BS attempt.  Hoping on a mis-communicate. 

post #3 of 118
Thread Starter 
Yes, just a book.
 
Quote:
''Are you trying to tell us you never had any formal coaching,,, just self taught?''
 
Yes
post #4 of 118

Hey guys, watch astra ski up to his coach who's standing at the bottom of the course at the end of this clip

 

http://photofile.name/users/a_str_a/video/v842126e462/view/

 

 

Obviously astra is full of doo-doo, here with some type of agenda, or just to play games. 

 

You're a good skier, astra, but you do have some issues.  If you hadn't come in here disengenuous I would have taken a moment to help you.  Perhaps someone else here will choose to waste their time. 

post #5 of 118

No doo-doo, no coaching, no agenda :),  at the bottom of the course not the coach, just one of the friends :).

post #6 of 118

That was her  Dad. Worrying she might hurt herself with that book in her pocket.

 

Nice outfit.  Shins seem safe too.

 

You made some nice turns.  The snow looks nice can you tell us where the videos were taken ?

 

 

 

I disgracefully fixed my post in error


Edited by GarryZ - 6/5/2009 at 01:06 am GMT
post #7 of 118

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GarryZ View Post

That was his Dad. Worrying he might hurt himself with that book in his pocket.

 


Ah yes,,, A DVD would be much safer!! 
 

 

 

www.YourSkiCoach.com

post #8 of 118

I dunno----those DVD's can get brittle in the cold ..... : 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick View Post

 


Ah yes,,, A DVD would be much safer!! 
 

 

 

www.YourSkiCoach.com



 

post #9 of 118

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GarryZ View Post

That was his Dad. Worrying he might hurt himself with that book in his pocket.

 

The snow looks nice can you tell us where the videos were taken ?

 

Her :) frend, not "his Dad" :) 

 

Near Moscow :) Russia  

 

Sorry astra-ZTL but you for some reason very quiet today :)
 

post #10 of 118

Why does it matter: by book only or not? 

 

Does the advice change?

 

The Gurshman influence is clear:  too much inclination, too square to the skis, too much rotation into the turn, and body too stiff... especially for SL turns

 

The first round of advice is obvious -- more tipping using the legs (more angulation), more counter at the fall-line down. (upper/lower body separation, kill the rotation into the turn.)

 

The second round is more flexion at release and stronger recentering (pull back feet).

 

It sure is fun to ski like that though!

 

post #11 of 118
Thread Starter 

Well. sorry for delay, was busy at work.

I am a female. From Moscow, Russia. English is not my native tongue
I apologize for mistakes icon_smile.gif

There is no big mountains around, only small hills.
Last couple years we have problems with natural snow.
Because of that we skiing most time on artificial snow.
If you interested you can some pictures here


http://winter.ya-park.ru/sport/trace/


I trained by myself without any help by professional instructors or coaches. No doo-doo icon_smile.gif
Obviously Greg's "influence is clear" because I learned to ski reading his articles icon_smile.gif

The questions are:

- how does it look like, is it sporty?

- there is a delay in my turns into the fall-line. how to correct that?

Can you please explain what exactly do you mean by more angulation?
post #12 of 118

 Hi Astra - your English is great - much better than the Russian of most folks here ;)

 

Just to clarify

1) until 3 years ago you had never been on skis

2) then you bought Greg's book

3) You then read the directions, got on skis and learnt to ski

4) You got no hints or tips or advice from anyone else? Just read the book.

5) Did you set those stubbies(small short race poles on the course beside you) yourself for training?

6) Is how to set race courses for training in Greg's book?

7) or You bought shin pads because you thought they looked cool?

8) and ski next to a race course because one of the racer boys looks hot in lycra?

post #13 of 118

Hi Astra,

I agree your English is good.

Don't worry about the reception Rick Gave you.  These ski instructors are used to people taking hundreds of lessons and not learning how to ski as well as you show.  I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to ski that well without having had the benefit of ski instructors.  I have a few tips to get you to the next level.

 

I myself am not a ski instructor, so maybe my advice is not so good.  (or maybe better considering Rick's expectations. ;)   )

 

What I see is you throwing yourself around to tip the skis.  You are getting some good angles and making some nice turns, but a little too much "pulling" the lower body into the right lean angle after agressively going for the turn.  I think if you let go of the old turn just a little bit sooner and ski a little faster tighter turn your own momentum  will move your body into position.  It's a bit of a circular thing, by letting go while you are still in the tight spot of the turn you will naturally make the next turn tighter.  Remember to let pressure come to the ski and not apply it.

 

Also, as has been said, stay pointed down the fall line with your upper body a bit more and keep your upper body straighter for more angulation and counter for more style points.  :)

post #14 of 118

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigE View Post

Why does it matter: by book only or not? 

 

Does the advice change?

 


 

It matters because I do this for free.  I'm happy to help people if their request and background info are sincere.  If it's clearly BS like this is, then yes, the advice DOES change.  It disappears. 

 

This kid has obviously been gate training for some time.  Her turns are clearly race train influenced.  She has shin pads on in the video.  She's training on the hill where a gate training course is set, and race training is being actively conducted. She's skiing together with another race guy.  And after finishing her run she skis right up her coach who's standing at the bottom of the course with no skis on,,, doing his coaching thing. 

 

Fortunately, crap like this doesn't happen too often here.  Most people who come here looking for free help are genuous.  They have enough respect and appreciation for the people from whom they're soliciting help to not play games like this. 

post #15 of 118

And what possible reason would somebody have for saying they learned from a book instead of asking for advice saying they filmed themselves race training if they were race training.  It makes no sense to fabricate a false story for no reason.

post #16 of 118

Both angulation and inclination is on Gurshman's web-site. It should be in his book too.

 

post #17 of 118

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick View Post

 

  If it's clearly BS like this is, then yes, the advice DOES change.  It disappears. 

 

This kid has obviously been gate training for some time.  Her turns are clearly race train influenced.  She has shin pads on in the video.  She's training on the hill where a gate training course is set, and race training is being actively conducted. She's skiing together with another race guy.  And after finishing her run she skis right up her coach who's standing at the bottom of the course with no skis on,,, doing his coaching thing. 

 

Fortunately, crap like this doesn't happen too often here.  Most people who come here looking for free help are genuous.  They have enough respect and appreciation for the people from whom they're soliciting help to not play games like this. 


There is no BS :) gate courses set on hills in Russia almost all the time. People around 40-s there for some reason like gate training very much despite the fact that half of them barely can stand on the skis. I think she flattered that you boys :) calling her kid but she is a little older then you think and for that might bite your head off :). I just happen to know her personally. She is telling no lies :) , and please Rick, if you full of crap, do not think that everybody else is. 
 

post #18 of 118

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by astra-ZTL View Post

Can you please explain what exactly do you mean by more angulation?


Angulation:

 

           |   < - Upper body

          /    < - Lower body

 

Inclination:

 

           /   < - Upper body

          /    < - Lower body

post #19 of 118

With all due respect, Rick is one of the grandmaster coaches around. The videos suggest that the skiier has been skiing for a while and has gotten some training. She is certainly a good skiier. Now, if she had said, she is a good skiier, looking to improve further, I am quite certain Astra, you'd get great advice. Folks are not inclined to assist here if they detect credibility issues.

 

Regardless, you appear to be a very good skiier - so why dont you rephrase your question to simply that you wish to improve. I am sure some of the pros on this forum, Rick included would be happy to give you good advice. They certainly give everyone good advice, from beginners to downhill champs get invaluable counsel, so it comes down to how the question is phrased. If language is a barrier, keep it simple. Its no big deal. Where is this ski slope?

post #20 of 118

Astra, who is the skier in yellow? Do you ski with him often? If you compare how you ski with how he skis, what would you say is the difference?

post #21 of 118
Thread Starter 

Hi skimuggle!

 

Quote:

1) until 3 years ago you had never been on skis

Never

 

Quote:

2) then you bought Greg's book

3) You then read the directions, got on skis and learnt to ski

4) You got no hints or tips or advice from anyone else? Just read the book

Exactly. Greg's book and his website.

All tips and hints which I got from people on the slope are not with the line of Greg's book.

 

So I ignore all off them!

 

Quote:

5) Did you set those stubbies(small short race poles on the course beside you) yourself for training?

6) Is how to set race courses for training in Greg's book?

 

Resort prepared training slope, twise a week. Two race cources. One with poles another with stubbies. And anyone can ski on poles or stubbies for extra money.

 

And yes. Its in a book too. page 149-173.

 

 

Quote:

7) or You bought shin pads because you thought they looked cool?

 Off course they look COOL!!

 

 

Quote:

8) and ski next to a race course because one of the racer boys looks hot in lycra?

 Aha!

 

post #22 of 118

I would not strive to make your skiing resemble any particular form as has been suggested here nor would I seek to achieve a particular mix of angulation and inclination at this point. There is a real tendency in much advice about skiing to shape your form into that which resembles the desired outcome as if the appearance of great skiing was the real substance of it. Instead I would concentrate on making and adjusting your movements to produce the turning, carving and speed control  management you are looking for. I would then experiment with adjusting your form to manage the forces that result and to facilitate the movements that are required.

 

I realize this is a bit abstract but you seem to have done very well by utilizing this kind of guided experiential approach to learning.

 

You are moving to the inside very well. You have a beautifully quiet pattern of movement through the turn from one to the next. If anything it is a bit too passive for the level of skiing you seem to have achieved but it has evidently kept you from excessive upper body movements such as rotation that would overpower your skis and produce all kinds of faults. In truth your skiing is so good that you might very well be a much more accomplished skier who is intentionally "dumbing it down" for the video hence no doubt the source for at least some of the skepticism here.

 

What I see is that you seem not to be producing the kind of carving forces in the turn that you will want to achieve to carry you through a turn at speed on a hard surface. In the video your outside ski sometimes appears to be diverging as if your weight is moving to the inside ski. The appearance is if you are giving up the turn without completing it. This can, of course, be a good technique on a course where appropriate but may also be an indication of a shortcoming in your technique that limits your versatility.

 

I suspect that you are entering your turns a little bit back on your skis which is not allowing you to balance well against your outside ski and generate and experience the kind of forces that you Will want to be able to develop. I would experiment with techniques for moving your mass more forward as you approach the beginning of a turn. Pulling the feet back is one thing to try. Moving the body forward and down the hill as you approach turn initiation is another way to visualize it. Feeling that your feet are a little bit behind you as you ski is another way of getting at this.

 

I would not seek to replace what you are  currently doing in your skiing in any way but instead look to build upon it by experimenting with these movements to find the feel of a more effectively carving ski. Look for the sensation of forces that this will produce. Another way to produce the sensation I'm referring to is by skating on your skis where you spend a moment balanced against the edge of the ski you are pushing off from. Experimenting with the timing of your movements as well as your fore and aft positioning on this ski will teach you a lot. Try then to transfer the movements into your skiing to achieve a similar sensation.

 

Once you begin to experience more power in your carving you will want to experiment with the timing and duration of your movements to manage the forces you will find at your disposal. You may find, for example that a forceful and muscular effort is required from your legs to resist the force and/or let it go.

 

Just bear in mind that this is all a ballet of movement and not static positions. Build with your experimentation on the solid achievements you already have.

post #23 of 118
Thread Starter 

Hi Ghost!

 

 

Quote:

What I see is you throwing yourself around to tip the skis. 

 What do you mean by throwing yourself around to tip of the skis?

 

Quote:

 I think if you let go of the old turn just a little bit sooner and ski a little faster tighter turn your own momentum  will move your body into position.  It's a bit of a circular thing, by letting go while you are still in the tight spot of the turn you will naturally make the next turn tighter.  Remember to let pressure come to the ski and not apply it.

 

you mean go more straight in the end of the turn?

 

Like that? (Picture from GG book)

 

 

Quote:

Also, as has been said, stay pointed down the fall line with your upper body a bit more and keep your upper body straighter for more angulation and counter for more style points.  :)

 Clear with that!!
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post #24 of 118

I would just like to add that is a real pleasure to watch this kind of thing. Your approach to skiing and learning reminds me of the great little ski hills around Minnesota that have produced so many good skiers

 

My summation of my preceding blather:

 

Adjust the timing of your body's movement down the hill in order to enter the turn a bit more forward. Extend your legs a bit earlier against your edges. Allow your body to continue its movement down the hill to release the force and the edging as required.

post #25 of 118
Thread Starter 
Quote:

This kid

 Thanks a lot!! But I'm not a kid! I am 38 years old mister!

 

 

Quote:

has obviously been gate training for some time.  Her turns are clearly race train influenced.  She has shin pads on in the video.  She's training on the hill where a gate training course is set, and race training is being actively conducted. She's skiing together with another race guy.  And after finishing her run she skis right up her coach who's standing at the bottom of the course with no skis on,,, doing his coaching thing. 

 Off cource I have race influence!! (remember hot gues in licra ) thats the style which described in GG articles.

re training cource I wrote earlier, its set by resort.I trained several times on race cources, but only in stubbies not poles.

 

We are a group of amatures who skiing together. Non of those people are teaching me.

 

But I trained some of them! 

 

 

Quote:

Fortunately, crap like this doesn't happen too often here.  Most people who come here looking for free help are genuous.  They have enough respect and appreciation for the people from whom they're soliciting help to not play games like this. 

 It's your opinion! It's your right!
post #26 of 118
Thread Starter 

To cfr:

 

Are the  first frame angulation and 3 and 4 frames inclination you talking about?

 

post #27 of 118
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
 

Regardless, you appear to be a very good skiier - so why dont you rephrase your question to simply that you wish to improve. I am sure some of the pros on this forum, Rick included would be happy to give you good advice. They certainly give everyone good advice, from beginners to downhill champs get invaluable counsel, so it comes down to how the question is phrased. If language is a barrier, keep it simple. Its no big deal. Where is this ski slope?

I'm having some problems. I'm stuck! Not improoving further. Understanding that there is a mistake in between the turns - delayed in the end of the turn and as a result delay in begining of new one.

 

How to correct?

post #28 of 118
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro View Post

Astra, who is the skier in yellow? Do you ski with him often? If you compare how you ski with how he skis, what would you say is the difference?

It's my friend. Many years on skis, but old technique.  Classic skis. We skiing all the time together.

 

And now I teach him how to skiing new style. On this video he is trying to copy my movements.

 

The difference?? He's a looser, I'm a star! Joking of course!

 

Thats some videos of him. If you'd like.

 

http://video.mail.ru/mail/7445029/1/7.html

 

http://video.mail.ru/mail/7445029/1/14.html

 

post #29 of 118

Rick,

 

Do you REALLY think she skis well enough to have been coached?  I don't.

post #30 of 118

Astra when you watch those three videos do you see how smoothly he moves from one turn to the next? Also notice how his pelvis moves into each turn without any vertical (upward) pop. Contrast that with how you are moving so much more to accomplish the same turns?  My thought is that you hang onto the old turn while hurrying to establish the next turn. The result is the staccatto quality you show. This will eventually give way as you gain the confidence to flatten the outside ski to release it, instead of trying to overcome it. The idea here is to eliminate the need for the pop and it will go away...

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