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Hey WaCKo!!

post #1 of 40
Thread Starter 
When a PMTS trained skier wins a World Cup race, could you please leave the name of the racer, date of race etc, so I can buy the video. I'm so tired of of traditionally trained skiers winning all the time.

(The USSA Coaches Education Department has been producing World Cup Winning Runs since 1989 and any of them may be purchased by special request.)
post #2 of 40
You lose.
Harb trained Tommy Moe.

LOL LOL LOL!

Points for the effort though.
post #3 of 40
Actually Bill Egan was Tommy Moes coach during his ski team years, over his growth period as a skier he also got coached by the Mahres, by dozens of high level USSCA coaches, and dozens of PSIA instructors. It takes a lot of coaches, and a lot of time to breed an athlete like that. Tommy Moes main coach for many of his years previous to making the USST was Lex Patton. Harald was one of Tommy's coaches for awhile at Alyska when we was working his way up (while Harald was an active PSIA member incidentally). You couldn't count all of Tommmy's coaches on both hands and feet - thats the way it generally is with career athletes (he spent 12 years on the World Cup!)<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by Todd Murchison (edited July 25, 2001).]</FONT>
post #4 of 40
Thread Starter 
Moe's from Montana. He learned in a traditional teaching system. PMTS wasn't invented yet.
post #5 of 40
Thread Starter 
Actually, I get no points for the effort. I get points for the win. I didn't ask what racers has Harb trained, I asked what racers were trained with PMTS.
post #6 of 40
How bout we call it a tie?
post #7 of 40
Wait! You said "invented" Uh, doesn't that mean new?

Where's "Best Regards" when I really need him.
post #8 of 40
Thread Starter 
Isn't "PMTS" a technique for shaped skis. Tommy Moe is speed event skier not too much shape in SG and DH skis. Harb coached him in the 80's maybe, so before shaped skis.
So what you're saying is Harb had more success coaching before PMTS and shaped skis
post #9 of 40
Alright, you got me. I lose. What do I owe ya?
post #10 of 40
Damn Nord, You are a Barbarian. WTG
post #11 of 40
Elway may be looking for a new home.

Fine animal that Elway!<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by yuki (edited July 25, 2001).]</FONT>
post #12 of 40
Oh man.
post #13 of 40
Ahem. The reason shaped skis have become so popular is that they enable skiers to carve turns easily at slower speeds. The modern skiing techniques work just as well on straight skis if you go fast enough.
post #14 of 40
Tommy Moe was a coaches dream. When asked what he was thinking about during his winning run he said,"I was thinking about keeping my hands forward and my weight on my downhill ski". I have it on tape. Talk about basics.
post #15 of 40
SLATZ,

Thanks for the cool quote - I so totally get it.

That's what I practice, starting the turn with the downhill ski - it's neatto.
post #16 of 40
So, SLATZ....does he get it??
post #17 of 40
>>Ahem. The reason shaped skis have become so popular is that they enable skiers to carve turns easily at slower speeds. The modern skiing techniques work just as well on straight skis if you go fast enough.<<

Well - they also allow skiers to carve more radical turns at higher speeds (G-Forces are fun!), the extremists and racers haven't adopted shaped skis out of fashion or because they need help carving at slow speeds! I would agree, carving a turn on straight skis is just as easy as on shaped skis - the minimum turn radius is simply longer. I used to lay down quite nice carved arcs on my 225's, they were no less carved than my shaped 183 ski carves are . . . but the radius is simply different.

More sidecut = more choices.
post #18 of 40
Right on Todd
Roto I think he's yanking us
If you want to do something, check out Benni Reich or Mario Matt in freeze frame and frame advance. Then get a tape of Tomba or even Stenmark and do the same. The only difference is the size of the arcs and the amount of arc compared to skid. The skis may have changed but the engine hasn't.
Also, I find that if you want to do the whole mountain you can't ride the rails all the time. It sure is a blast when you do though.
post #19 of 40
SLATZ

Oh really? I'll be posting lotsa video this winter.
post #20 of 40
SCSA
Videos of you? riding the rails on the whole mountain? I want to see you "ride the rails" in thigh deep crud on a 41 degree pitch in a chute about 10ft wide on your new (was it moving up to 180CM?) skis.
"Regal chute", or "hour glass Chute" Alf's High Rustler. Alta, UT after an epic snow dump. I was talking to Scott Mathers about this when I skied with him last year. The outcome of our conversation. Different technique is called for in this situation.

When YOU can ski this with no rotary movements following the "natural arc" of the ski and stay in control, I will "consider" a PMTS specific instructor.
post #21 of 40
>>"I was thinking about keeping my hands forward and my weight on my downhill ski". I have it on tape. Talk about basics.<<

SLATZ -
I don't think SCSA really gets it, tho he is sure he does. I don't think he has an inkling of the history behind that quote or any idea of how long that has been basic to skiing...

>>Thanks for the cool quote - I so totally get it.

That's what I practice, starting the turn with the downhill ski - it's neatto.<<


SCSA, I'm not trying to be Richard Cranium. Sometimes it just happens.
post #22 of 40
SCSA
I'm new here and having a ball. Not trying to rip on anyone. After 50 years nothing is surprising and the more things change the more they stay the same. The more I try to define skiing and teaching into science the more I realize it's an art. The basics of playing the violin are simple but it takes a lot of practice to make music. Looking forward to your video. The learning curve is never ending.
post #23 of 40
dchan,

One thing I noticed, going through the PMTS instructor manual, is the "Phantom drag" (which I think, ACTUALLY has something to do with smoking pot in a haunted house with Scooby Doo, but I'm not sure) is a very flat ski, skidded, rotated move. To do it, there needs to be rotation and skidding. However, he still preaches NO rotation and skidding. He seems to conveniently forget that he taught beginners to rotate and skid, yet never used the words "rotate" and skid" (which, if you are a new instructor learning from his manual, would really F* you up). These sort of contradictory statements are the sort of thing that really pissed me off with his "system". And HE complains about other "Traditional Teaching Systems" requiring the student to "unlearn" moves they were taught? Hypocrite! He skieth with a fork-ed ski.
post #24 of 40
I had some of those fork-ed skis, Swallow tails I think they were called.
I wonder where they are now?
Cute.. I like the Scooby ref...
<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by dchan (edited July 27, 2001).]</FONT>
post #25 of 40
Dchan, you just reminded me of a day a couple of years ago at Mammoth. I did just what you described: railed turns in thigh high crud in a narrow chute. Of course, in Mammoth snow, terminal velocity is not as high as at Alta. Come to think of it, when I went to Alta, my instructor and I did something very similiar to that. Thanks!
But if I credit anything, it would be Volant Chubbs. They just make me ski like that....<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by milesb (edited July 27, 2001).]</FONT>
post #26 of 40
dchan,

Yeah, well HH would have gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids and their dog!
post #27 of 40
An old coach and mentor told me once: "If someone tells you to do something, even if it seems wrong, try it. That way you'll know what works and what doesn't". I like at least one of HH's ideas but I'm not into his religion. The people here in "Dairy Air" are really hung up on it ,even the PSIA guys. They used to say "if it gets you down the hill it's not wrong".
post #28 of 40
Good point MilesB
last year after a big dump at sugarbowl I tried going straight down some pretty steep stuff I mean straight down and started moving and then just sort of slowed to a stop. It was probably about 35 degree pitch.
In Alta do you mean you had to switch to something other than carved arcs for the situation?

Do you remember your instructor's name at Alta?


JohnH
Scooooooooobeeeeeee Dobeeeee Doooooooo!
<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by dchan (edited July 27, 2001).]</FONT>
post #29 of 40
>>the "Phantom drag" (which I think, ACTUALLY has something to do with smoking pot in a haunted house with Scooby Doo, but I'm not sure)<<

I thought the Phantom Drag was a dead cross-dresser. We could add that to the Jargonaut thread!
post #30 of 40
okay, a compromise; A dead cross-dresser puffin some ganja.
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