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Short skis and certification

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 
Now that skis have been getting very short, I am wondering what would be the minimum ski length required to take a certification test (say level III) in PSIA. Is 160cm the minimum or can somebody show up with 140cm, 123cm or even 99cm skiboards. Who decides?

Since I am asking, I might as well ask about PMTS certification (RickH or SnoKarver may be able to tell us).

Why do I ask? Because I want to know. : I remember that Pierre eh! was told that he should ride short skis during certification to be able to do rounder cleaner short turns (which cannot be done as neatly on long skis).

Any thoughts?
post #2 of 14
I do not know of any "present" restriction. In the bad old days, you couldn't switch skis in RM. Skiboards do not have (in most cases) release bindings and are not, I would think be acceptable (different sport), but what do I know. You may, however, not escape an examiners (even) subconscious bias concerning ski length, particularly if they perceive negative movement patterns they may attribute to length or if they do not "tactically fit" a task, situation, condition or terrain.
I remember candidates who had not readily adopted shaped technology where subject to discriminatory evaluation.
Who's still examining out there....Bob?
post #3 of 14
Hi TomB--good question!

"Officially," there is no restriction for a PSIA exam. Keep in mind, though, that these exams will require you to do a variety of tasks in many conditions and at vastly different speeds, especially at Level 3. You will not be allowed to use your skis as an excuse!

So I wouldn't go too extreme in any direction. Use a good, well-tuned, versatile ski that you are very comfortable on. Use the same pair that you'd show up to line-up with, not knowing whether you'll be teaching beginners, racers, moguls, or powder!

There is also no restriction against changing skis during an exam, but you will win NO points if you hold things up or tell the examiner that you need a different pair of skis for some maneuver! Remember that the exam is a test of YOUR skills--not your skis. Remember also, though, that equipment selection is a skill too, and a sign of professionalism.

Finally, as Robin says, beware of the unfortunate truth that some examiners may have a prejudice whether they mean to or not. It shouldn't happen, but examiners do have at least a few human characteristics, sometimes!

Best regards,
Bob Barnes
post #4 of 14

I have not heard of any restrictions on length of skis for PMTS accreditation. There are no tests that will require speed. However, for Blue accreditation, you will need to ski blue bumps consistantly in the fall line. For Black accreditation, you must ski black bumps consistantly in the fall line, demonstrating both weighted and unweighted releases.

You can use whatever length you feel comfortable with. If I were taking the accreditation today, I would use my Head Cyclone 160's for the teaching exams and my Elan MX 2000 Super 173's for everything else.

post #5 of 14
The only RM examiner that I know skis on a 170.
post #6 of 14
A *very* germaine topic for me! I need to replace my venerable 170cm Olin Sierras before coming back out to the US. I hope to attempt my PSIA level II. The only skis I really like are the Axis Pro (K2) or the Stockli Raver, which is an extreme carve ski. Friends are the importers, so I'm investigating a deal. They only come in 2 short lengths, and i'm angling for the 152!!!!

The ski's dimensions (get this) are: tail, 110, foot is 68, and the shovel is...... 120mm!!!!!!

I originally decided not to get them, thinking they'd be a handful in bumps. I still think this, but a retailer here took them in some steep bumps and reckoned they were fine. I figure that if I can't handle them in bumps (very likely), I can just rent some nice demos...
post #7 of 14
I don't know squat, which disqualifies my comments.

But I think the skis of choice for an examination should be nose height at minimum.
post #8 of 14
Hi being new to the forums I thought I'd get started with this one. I took the level 3 last year on T-Poweer Viper S and no one looked at me cross wise. They must be OK to use, I passed.

This forum is a great tool for us in the business and those who wanr to learn more. I'll visit often. [img]smile.gif[/img]
post #9 of 14
Hey Bat--don't just visit--stay! Welcome to EpicSki!

Congratulations on passing that Level 3 exam. Don't give those skis too much credit, though--the exam is a test of the skier, not the skis!

You're right that this is a great place to exchange ideas about skiing, at any level. If you haven't already done it, go back through the archives and check out some of the discussions we've had.

The group is nearly three times the size it was only a year ago, and we had some great discussions then! I'm sure you'll have a lot to offer--hope you stick around.

I look forward to hearing from you. Where do you teach, by-the-way?

Best regards,
Bob Barnes
post #10 of 14
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bob Barnes/Colorado:
.... Don't give those skis too much credit, though--the exam is a test of the skier, not the skis! ....
Best regards,
Bob Barnes

Yet PierreEh failed his first try becuase he choose the wrong(long) ski. Could anyone pass the test using skis from the 80's?
post #11 of 14
Hah! Hey, welcome back, Ydnar. Good to see your name around here again!

One quick point--you face a self-contradicting losing battle--once you straighten me out, centrifugal force vanishes, by definition! We can only deal with centrifugal force by going around in circles (as we have clearly demonstrated in the past!)

Cold Water--Perhaps not. But not because they couldn't do the maneuvers--I've often pointed out that there is no real "difference" between today's skis and those of the past. The change is one of evolution--albeit very quick evolution in the last decade.

But equipment selection is a skill, as I've also said, and being current is a sign of professionalism. Except in the rarest of cases, economics can't be an excuse--used current skis in decent condition are practically given away these days. And I've loaned my own skis on several occasions to instructors going to exams. If economics, or stolen/broken skis, or some other legitimate situation really IS the reason, though, I would have no problem passing an earnest, skillful candidate on older equipment.

If an instructor going to an exam on outdated equipment is trying to make some sort of statement, he/she may find that it's something the examiner isn't interested in hearing.

Perhaps most important, the few candidates I've seen in recent years who show up on 10-year-old 210-215 Super G skis or the like, claiming that they are "better," have all had serious technical misunderstandings! If anyone really thinks he can carve a turn "better" in normal situations on those skis than on contemporary equipment, he's missing something crucial. That something will show up in his movements and understanding. Those movement/skill deficiencies will be the cause of his failing the exam--not the skis themselves.

Best regards,
Bob Barnes
post #12 of 14

Boy you stay up late, got nothing better to do?

I'd still like to straighten you out on that cent-tri-fugal force thing. :

I'm back, be afraid. Be very afraid.
post #13 of 14
Thread Starter 
Guys thanks for the answers. I asked out of curiosity, not because I plan to get certified.


Stokli Raver, 152cm and 120-68-110?
: Wow sounds like a blast! I wonder how it compares to the Atomic 9.12 (115-65-101), the ski that has me drooling all over lately.
post #14 of 14
Hi Bob,
Sorry to take so long to get back to you. I supervise and teach at Mission Ridge, Wenatchee Wa. On the east slope of the Cascades (the dry side)
I've been teaching 20yrs, let my cert. lapse due to injury and had to re-take the test. My good friend P.J. Jones got me back into teaching when he was director here. We go back to 1975 teching in Montana together.
This is not on the thread, sorry.

Talk to you guys soon.
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