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Attention Instructors & Coaches (and ONLY Instructors & Coaches)

post #1 of 27
Thread Starter 
First, a HUGE apology for my taking so ridiculously long to get the Ski Pro List together. I was not able to spend as much time as I had hoped on the site in the past two months.

Anyway, here it is. I have included all those who submitted info (if you submitted and are not there, I'm sorry but I lost it and will need you to PM it to me again). If you did not submit it last time and want on the list, See This.

Those on the list, please double check all the links in your profile to make sure they are working (and are linked to YOUR EpicSki info, recent posts, and PM).

I am not going to put this up in the Training Center and announce it broadly until I hear back from you that you are happy or unhappy with how it looks and reads. I am still open to suggestions - reply here or send me a PM.

I hope you like it!

EpicSki Instructor & Coach Listing
post #2 of 27
Nice job AC!
post #3 of 27
Todd - How do you get to be PSIA level IV? We don't have any such thing out west, Even David Mannetter is only Level III, and he spent 12 years on the D team. What is it?
post #4 of 27
I'm an Accredited Trainer in the Rocky Mtn. Division, the next level past level III. However, now that I'm out East - it doesn't exist out here, and nobody has heard of it. So I've found that when I say "IV" they engage in dialog about it, but when I say "Accredited Trainer" they just look confused but don't say anything! Actually I'm getting downgraded to level III here when I xfer my membership to the PSIA-E, so I guess I'll be needing to change it to "III" at that time <sigh>

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ January 18, 2002 08:37 PM: Message edited 1 time, by Todd Murchison ]</font>
post #5 of 27
AC,

Thanks for doing this.

If we want to change our info in any way do we just contact you via PM?

Yd
post #6 of 27
Thread Starter 
Ydnar - yes, but please try not to do that too often so it does not becom an administrative nightmatre. For the initial release, however, I am certainly open to (and expecitng) some changes.
post #7 of 27
Todd - I talked to John Armstrong today, and he said there actually was one PSIA Level IV exam. It took place in 1972 at Mammoth. Apparently one of the examiners took a horrble fall in Hangman's, and the whole thing was called off. That was the only attempt at having a cert at a higher level than full cert. But, since full cert is full cert, there is no need for anything higher, even if you choose to participate in Ed Core or whatever, you are still level III.
post #8 of 27
Thats very interesting about the level IV exam!

Yep, Level III is the top . . . but unfortunately instructors tend to get the viewpoint that there are still two levels above III: DCL and Examiner. They forget that the DCL and Examiner process are actually the procedure of going to work *for* the PSIA, not a higher level of certification. But this is widely misunderstood.

The Accredited Trainer certification in the RM division is for folks who wanted more training (and recognition) in the training of instructors, but are not interested in becoming employees of the PSIA. I think its a good idea, I wish the PSIA-E would adopt it. Anybody know if there are any mumurings about this?

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ January 19, 2002 06:27 PM: Message edited 1 time, by Todd Murchison ]</font>
post #9 of 27
A mate just got back from the Lakewood meeting of muckity mucks and the jury is still out, Todd.
I too like the direction RM goes with the Trainers acred as well as Kids (which is going national), Seniors and potentially Parks and Pipes and Racing.
I really like the retro pins (copied from the ol RMSIA). Some guys out there look like they are on the joint chiefs of staff with all the heavy metal on the uni. I just wear one at a time, depending on the mood.
I believe having specialty accreds at Lev II eliminates the tendency to dilute or modify the Lev III cert....let them specialize with accred, not skew the skills at Full. In the PSIA W they are actually pushing hard for pipe stuff at III....Call me crazy, but I think there is plenty of material to cover there without fakie riding.
Thoughts?
post #10 of 27
Robin - Being a kids instructor, I am very opposed to having kid's cert. I would much rather see an increased emphasis on kid's at all exams, same with pipe and park. Level III is full cert, which means you can ski any terrain skied by the general public. The park is some of the most popular terrain around. A true full cert should be comfortable on at least the moderate hits, and basic positions, grabs and spins. In the US the park seems much more relevant than say racing (which is also under emphasized). The kid's cert almost seems like a cert for people who feel like Alpine III is beyond reach. By giving it a certification of it's own, it seems to be redundant when we have a full cert. Shouldn't a full cert be able to teach kids? Maybe we should have bump cert, steep cert and pow cert too? Just one more reason for me to be fustrated with the PSIA machine. Sometimes I think our leaders do as much to hold skiing back as the FIS.
post #11 of 27
Spinheli makes sense. The word "marginalization" comes to mind.

I actually passed my children's accreditation last month. It's chief requirement was a tolerance for boredom. Ironic, huh?
post #12 of 27
I think children's cert is a misnomer. The term used by Nolobono (did I get all the "o's" in the right place?) of children's accreditation is more appropriate. You are whatever cert level you are and the children's accreditation is an EXTRA achievement on your part, not a substitute for something else. I could see a park accreditation too.

Personally, I'm leery of park stuff beyond using a sidewall to make turns on. Grabs make no sense to me at all, probably because I can't reach below my skis while standing on them anyway. The aerodynamic roundness I've spent so many years developing just gets in the way and makes it impossible to breathe if I bend over far enough to reach a couple inches below my feet. Jumps are OK if you can see the landing or have a spotter, but inversions are way beyond "normal" skiing, as far as I'm concerned.
post #13 of 27
Well, I agree, I don't want to see individuals marginalized. The Kid's accred in RM is not a walk in the park or boring.
A III should teach it all. But to compare teaching kids (which agreeably should be part of I,II and III)to Parks and Pipes? Children are not a fad or a discipline but a biomechanical, physiological and pyschological category, as are seniors or women) not that park riders don't fit on the latter,but I don't remember worm turns and lincoln loops part of the curriculum back in the 70's. Alpine racing is quantitatively and qualitatively where the sport is generated, like it or not.
Accredidation allows for specialization, validation and recognition. Cert is for defining mastery, all ages conditions and profiles. Parlor tricks should be a specialization through accred.
JR, the Kids, Trainers and Seniors I did in RM were comprehensive and challenging as were my certs in Canada. So far what I have been exposed to in W is neither.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ January 21, 2002 11:43 AM: Message edited 1 time, by Robin ]</font>
post #14 of 27
Thread Starter 
Okay, I received a bunch of changes and a few new additions, but no complaints, so I'll make those edits to the list and we'll officially go live with it.
post #15 of 27
Very good work AC

Thanks..
post #16 of 27
AC,

I think the job you did was superb. I also enjoyed the comments form the other folks that teach. I would, however like to see some form of accreditation for older skiers who have some form of disability. I have oesteo-arthritis in a lot of joints. I feel the we need some form of special instruction, particularly at lower levels.

RH
post #17 of 27
Thread Starter 
Rick, does such an accreditation exist? I'm not really in the business of setting national standards and rating coaches by it. Seems to me that such info should be listed under "Specialites" for any instructor for whom it is a specialty. Is that what you meant?
post #18 of 27
PSIA-E has a "Master Certification" program that has "specialties".

Master Teacher Certification Checklist


**UPDATED 8-3-01**

Sports Science Accreditation Program
Required Accreditation Courses
2 credits Biomechanics (On Snow)
2 credits Exercise Physiology (On Snow)
2 credits Sport Psychology (On Snow)
Required Core Courses
2 credits History Comes Alive (On Snow)
2 credits Movement Analysis (On Snow)
2 credits Extreme Teaching (On Snow)
2 credits Get In Gear (On Snow)
1 credit Knee High Knowledge (On Snow)
1 credit Physical and Mental Disabilities (On Snow)
1 credit Communication Station (Indoor)
1 credit At Your Service (Indoor)
Optional Courses (Two are required.)
1 credit Anatomy (Indoor)
1 credit Varying Student Populations (Indoor)
1 credit Conversation With Fear (Indoor)
1 credit Outdoor First Care (Indoor)
1 credit Motor Learning (Indoor)
**The following optional courses may NOT be used by this Accreditation Program- The subjects are covered in the required accreditation courses.
1 credit Biomechanics (Indoor)
1 credit Exercise Physiology (Indoor)
1 credit Sport Psychology (Indoor)

Special Populations Program
Required Accreditation Courses
2 credits Teaching Women (On Snow)
2 credits Adult Development and Aging (On Snow)
2 credits Childhood Development: Physical (On Snow)
Required Core Courses
2 credits History Comes Alive (On Snow)
2 credits Movement Analysis (On Snow)
2 credits Extreme Teaching (On Snow)
2 credits Get In Gear (On Snow)
1 credit Knee High Knowledge (On Snow)
1 credit Physical and Mental Disabilities (On Snow)
1 credit Communication Station (Indoor)
1 credit At Your Service (Indoor)
Optional Courses (Two are required.)
1 credit Anatomy (Indoor)
1 credit Biomechanics (Indoor)
1 credit Exercise Physiology (Indoor)
1 credit Sport Psychology (Indoor)
1 credit Conversation With Fear (Indoor)
1 credit Outdoor First Care (Indoor)
1 credit Motor Learning (Indoor)
**The following course may NOT be used by this Accreditation Program-The subject is covered in the required accreditation courses.
1 credit Varying Student Populations (Indoor)

Children's Specialist Program
Required Accreditation Courses
2 credits Childhood Development: Cognitive (On Snow)
2 credits Childhood Development Affective (On Snow)
2 credits Childhood Development Physical (On Snow)
Required Core Courses
2 credits History Comes Alive (On Snow)
2 credits Movement Analysis (On Snow)
2 credits Extreme Teaching (On Snow)
2 credits Get In Gear (On Snow)
1 credit Knee High Knowledge (On Snow)
1 credit Physical and Mental Disabilities (On Snow)
1 credit Communication Station (Indoor)
1 credit At Your Service (Indoor)
Optional Courses (Two are required.)
1 credit Anatomy (Indoor)
1 credit Varying Student Populations (Indoor)
1 credit Biomechanics (Indoor)
1 credit Exercise Physiology (Indoor)
1 credit Sport Psychology (Indoor)
1 credit Conversation With Fear (Indoor)
1 credit Outdoor First Care (Indoor)
1 credit Motor Learning (Indoor)

Teaching Beginners Specialist
Required Accreditation Courses
2 credits Working The Learning Environment (On Snow)
2 credits Assessing Movement: Ideal vs. Real (On Snow)
2 credits The Communication Loop (On Snow)


Required Core Courses
2 credits History Comes Alive (On Snow)
2 credits Movement Analysis (On Snow)
2 credits Extreme Teaching (On Snow)
2 credits Get In Gear (On Snow)
1 credit Knee High Knowledge (On Snow)
1 credit Physical and Mental Disabilities (On Snow)
1 credit Communication Station (Indoor)
1 credit At Your Service (Indoor)
Optional Courses (Two are required.)
1 credit Anatomy (Indoor)
1 credit Varying Student Populations (Indoor)
1 credit Biomechanics (Indoor)
1 credit Exercise Physiology (Indoor)
1 credit Sport Psychology (Indoor)
1 credit Conversation With Fear (Indoor)
1 credit Outdoor First Care (Indoor)
1 credit Motor Learning (Indoor)

Are these "specialties" what you were thinking of?
post #19 of 27
Thread Starter 
Those are not at all the specialites I was refering to, I don't really even undestand what you posted above (no need to exlpain, it does not matter). See the Instructor List as posted for what I was talking about, all the submissions were along the lines of what I had in mind.
post #20 of 27
Thanks a lot AC!!

Really looks great! It's also really cool to recognize and provide direct access to these individuals committed to the profession. It's good for us Pros AND for the people interested in picking up some high quality ski instruction.

Nice one!
-E
post #21 of 27
AC,

We have all listed a specialty or two. I think that there should be some form of educational vehicle to teach instructors to teach their specialty effectively. My concern is that it be open to all instructors, regardless of affiliation. This may be wishiing upon a star, but I sure would like to see it happen.
post #22 of 27
>>> Some guys out there look like they are on the joint chiefs of staff with all the heavy metal on the uni.<<<

Though I've never said anything to them, I always cringe when I see retired instructors with all their pins displayed on the jacket.

From the day I retired 17 years ago, I have never worn a PSIA or other certification pin on my jacket, though I have them in my wallet, as seen in another thread, because it gets me a lot of half price food at lunch, though when they ask if I work at the mountain I tell them no, but often still get the discount :

The reason I dislike it is that most of us geezers cant ski as well anymore as we did when we were active instructors and by wearing the pin we may downgrade the image of PSIA certified instructors in the public's eye.

But, your opinions may vary...

..Ott
post #23 of 27
Otto,
This may be a different thread...but you guys worked hard to be the pioners and make it to whatever level you did.

Maybe a different pin color? maybe a pin with "retired" on it?

All of the current instructors should recognize the hard work you have done to lead the way!!!! Wear something so we can recognize you! [img]smile.gif[/img]
post #24 of 27
I agree with you, Keetov. People like Ott (and Ott in particular) are such great models of professionalism, such great spokespeople for the sport, and for the profession of teaching it. I too would like to see a special "emeritus" or "retired" pin for those who have put in the time, developed their skills, and wish to remain associated with the profession, but who may not care to keep up with all the latest stuff. Having had the pleasure now of skiing with Ott, my admiration for him has only increased. Not only does his skiing express pretty much everything that is good about the sport, but his joy at still playing with new moves even as he demonstrates classic moves shows what learning is all about! I, for one, am proud to be associated with the same profession as Ott Gangl!

Perhaps, rather than a special pin for retired instructors, we should have pins that bear an insignia indicating how current the certification is. Update clinics, specifically designed to keep instructors up-to-date and to verify their current skills, would entitle the instructor to a new, current pin.

On the other hand, those new "40-year" pins are pretty cool....

Best regards,
Bob Barnes
post #25 of 27
The 40 year pins are IT!

(Please no more instructor pins...Let's spend the effort on something more meaningful to the guest.)
post #26 of 27
Nah, just leave it alone, PSIA has enough pins besides the ones that count, they don't need another one [img]smile.gif[/img] . I am more proud of what I was than of what I'm now.

...Ott
post #27 of 27
I got certified by PSIA in 1971. At the time, here in the east, at least, there was only one exam. It was 5-days long and either you passed (pass rate was about 30%) or you didn't.

In the early 70's there was no such thing as Levels. You were either certified or you were not. I think it was late 70's that they went to Associate and Full and about ten years after that to the Level I, II, and III.

Bob
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