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Not using a Ski Helmet

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 

All these helmet threads have me finally publicly asking a question I've had which has remained  unanswered.  This is not about whether to use a helmet or not.  It's about using a non-ski specific helmet for skiing.  I noticed in the what color is your helmet thread, there are others who use non-ski helmets, such as MTT with a most likely Dot approved helmet. So hoping someone has a working link, or info to share. 

 

My kid outgrew his ski helmet. At start of season we shopped for a new one with no luck finding a proper fit.  He decides he'll just wear his Dot approved full-face MX helmet.  I pondered the wisdom of that, and went with his decision.       

 

I am fully aware sport specific helmets are important & often required for many sports with the appropriate approval(s).  From batting helmets, BMX, horsesports, biking, etc. Generally it's understood NOT to use helmets not approved for the sport, mainly because of rating/testing approvals, meeting protection standards, and the appropriateness for the sport.  Will it do the job ?  Will it/can it cause additional or more serious injury?  Does it hamper/inhibit the participant ? Things to always be considered. 

 

Clearly a helmet such as a batting helmet would be inadequate for a sport involving falls & speed.  But what about helmets rated at higher protection than the sport the person is wearing if for requires ? Anyone with good info out there ?

 

 

post #2 of 15

You're going to get spanked you know.

 

But, it is a very good question worth discussing. I'd be leary of using any protective equipment that was designed specifically for one sport but feeling it would be sufficient protection for another. I always get a kick out of the Pro Bull riders. How dare they give up their cowboy hats for hockey helmets? I'd be concerned about the weight factor of using a snowmobile or motercycle helmet while skiing. And this isn't meant in any way to degrade TC's old man, but surely, some falls could cause neck injuries. Maybe not.

post #3 of 15

911over, as you know the material helmets are made of today in comparison to year past is lighter weight and stronger.  You also may know that my husband is a dirt bike racer and choses to wear a moto cross helmet to ski, as seen in many pictures on this site.

 

IMHO a Motocross helmet is not idea for factors such as vision and ventilation, but the weight of contemporary motorcycle helmets is not as much of an issue as some may think it would be.

 

I know for a fact that my husbands helmet has saved his life, or at least from major head injury.

I don't care if he wears a ski helmet or a motorcycle helmet, I'm just glad he wears a quality helmet.

 

Wanna guess which one is Mr TC?

  

post #4 of 15

not the one in the white coat! TC what is the weight diff between your ski helmet and your husbands MX helmet

post #5 of 15

TC just pointed out three reasons not to.  Ventilation, vision and weight.   

 

I buy my kids stuff they don't need but want  also but why not get an MX style snowsports helmet if that is the style he wants  ? The snowsport helmets are designed to take into account the needs of the rider that are different than motorsports.

 

I won't go into how dorky  Mr TC looks in his choice of headwear but if he likes it he doesn't need our permission.

post #6 of 15

Giro remedy snow.

 

Giro remedy.

post #7 of 15
Thread Starter 

Garry it wasn't a helmet purchased in lieu of a ski helmet. It is a helmet used for it's original purpose & put into service when shopping trips for a well fitting ski helmet came up empty. Several brands shipped  inventory late & were not  in stock a few weeks before the season started.

 

 Vision and ventilation are factored into a well designed modern helmet for most sports as long as the helmet fits properly.  These had to be addressed for wide acceptance and use.  Nowdays I believe goggle choice and fit are probably the main factor for vision.  

 

Lars brought it up, and Garry echoed the weight factor. Weight and sport specific construction configuration was my main concern.  Yes the advances and uses of materials can weigh less, be stronger, and handle impacts better.  But newer helmets don't necessarily weigh less.  Some manufacturers recommend replacement after 5 years due to material degradation.  A friend replaced an older ski helmet with a new one.  Kept getting headaches during the ski day.  Weighed both helmets, and the newer one weighed more.  Back to the old helmet.

 

A couple decades ago when the ASTM/SEI standards & testing were determined for competition riding helmets, there were raging debates over the kids helmets.  Weight & bulk were the major concern.  You'd see the little tykes trotting down the fence line and they couldn't hold their head up straight, it would be canted over towards one shoulder or the other.  I just can't remember whether or not it was determined the helmet weight contributed or caused additional neck injuries during a fall.  

 

Using a Dot approved helmet surely provides greater impact protection, but, with snow sports & kids could/will it contribute to neck injuries due to weight, mass distribution & configuration?   Then mention of multi-discipline helmets on a different thread has me thinking how nice it  would be if the manufacturers would make more of these available.  Thinking helmets approved for skateboard, snowboard and skiing would be good.         

post #8 of 15
Thread Starter 

Karpiel, nice !    As I remember he wasn't necessarily looking for a helmet style to match the MX, but definitely preferred the ski helmet shells protecting the ears and more head coverage than the standard skull helmet or most popular shells.  And yeah , colors and graphics definitely were an attractant.

post #9 of 15

Interesting thread.

 

First as some of you know I OFTEN ski without a helmet

There are time when I just know I need a helmet.  I have been riding dirt bikes strtt bikes most of my life and I am comfortable with the SNUG secure fit or a good bike helmet

 

I also know that the things I am doing on the mountain if something goes bad a Ski Helmet is not going to help me.  If I glance of a tree or rock @ 50+MPH the Shoe might save my life.

 

That Helmet cast allot of Money it has allot of carbon fiber in t.  Weight is 1200 grams

It has adjustable ventilation.  It fits very snug and does not drag lift or move at very high speed.  If does not even create wind noise @80MPH

 

So it VERY EXPENSIVE / VERY SAFE.  And it looks COOL AS HELL

 

But it is not on my head that often.  And that’s my chose

 

After Sking in this helmet for three seasons I know I have the right gear

post #10 of 15

Gotcha 911. That makes sense.  As does your comparing skate and snowsports helmets. They are very similar. My son has one and it is very similar to some popular helmets I see in sports shops. They do see to be more of a half helmet  with less coverage around the lower edges for the wearer.

What other sports would have a lightwieght but safe alternative to a pure snowsport helmet ?  The venting in snow helmets seems to be the biggest difference. They just seem to have better designs.

post #11 of 15

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MTT View Post

I also know that the things I am doing on the mountain if something goes bad a Ski Helmet is not going to help me.  If I glance of a tree or rock @ 50+MPH the Shoe might save my life.


 

I understand that a ski helmet won't help you that much in that situation, but I also think that saying Ski Helmets are not "safe" cause they don't serve much use at 50+ MPH is a little extreme. I don't think I've ever hit 50 MPH on a ski, let alone skiing that fast on a run with trees or rocks.

post #12 of 15

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MustangSVT View Post

 

 

I understand that a ski helmet won't help you that much in that situation, but I also think that saying Ski Helmets are not "safe" cause they don't serve much use at 50+ MPH is a little extreme. I don't think I've ever hit 50 MPH on a ski, let alone skiing that fast on a run with trees or rocks.


Then unlike me, this type of helmet would not be appropriate for you.
 

Just as the ski gear I use might not be a good fit for you.

 

There is no right for all wrong for all.  It is what it is.

post #13 of 15
Thread Starter 

I didn't read that MTT was saying ski helmets weren't safe.  Considering the skiing speed and hazards he described, he has a logical theory of which helmet could possibly benefit him.  It's a helmet he has more trust due to it's purpose,design and construction.  It fits and he wears it. 

 

I suspect helmet weight has significantly more bearing for scrawny necked children, ( most children are scrawny necked until physical maturaty is reached it seems,) than it has for physically mature adults. 

I've also read where increased helmet weight (non-sport) has a more noticeable physical effect on the necks of women.  Guessing that's why I would never chose to ski in a motocross helmet. Too heavy for the task, uncomfortable for skiing IMO.  But for a guy , not so much.

 

One very brief article I read on juvenile ski falls described the observed falls measured occurred at a speed averaging just under 12 mph. It also stated helmets were designed to protect in falls of approx 15 mph. Lots of factors were left out of the article though. One thread in the ski racing forum this year a poster cited the differences between speed of impact vs the speed the skier had been traveling.   Impact is what  helmets are designed to protect the brain from. 

post #14 of 15
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GarryZ View Post

Gotcha 911. That makes sense.  As does your comparing skate and snowsports helmets. They are very similar. My son has one and it is very similar to some popular helmets I see in sports shops. They do see to be more of a half helmet  with less coverage around the lower edges for the wearer.

What other sports would have a lightwieght but safe alternative to a pure snowsport helmet ?  The venting in snow helmets seems to be the biggest difference. They just seem to have better designs.


I think helmet manufacturers & marketing spend a lot of time discussing these aspects.  I'm noticing more & more overall asthetically similar designs in an increasing number of sports that deal with falls above running speeds.  The differences are in the ASTM standards established for the intended sport for the types of typical injury causing impacts and other specified hazards.  I suspect some of these are pretty close and by design helmets could encompass a number of ASTM standards if manufactured to meet them.   (There are a few, but not what my family needs.)  Cost would be a factor, however, for many parents if we could reduce the number of sport specific helmets purchased an increased cost for one saves money, shopping time, how much space needed to put the darned things, and results in a better helmet. 

 

I think there would be a decent market for multi-discipline or multi standard sport helmets.

Children do grow out of their helmets, they go through a lot of helmets actually,  I'd sure rather replace and shop for one rather than three.  And willing to pay more for one.  It's also easier for kids to take care of what they own when they don't own much.

 

Helmet venting is a big plus. It removed a big complaint for many people who wouldn't wear a helmet because of that specific discomfort.  I'm so used to wearing helmets without that nice feature, I've forgotten to open the vents on my ski helmet until helmet hair had already set in.  This year I remembered the vents on hot days.  Very nice. 

  
 


Edited by 911over - 5/1/2009 at 09:22 am GMT
post #15 of 15

MTT, you are in a similar position as MrTC.  At 42 years of age, he's been a competitive enduro rider for over half his life.  He is comfortable with a motorcycle helmet and thought his shoei is not as stylish as yours I'm confident that the impacts he's had with his motorcycle helmet would have had a different outcome had he been wearing a ski helmet or no helmet at all.

Heck the coolest thing about MrTC is that he doesn't care if he's cool.

 

IMHO if 911overs son(who happens to be an extraordinary young man) is comfortable with a dirtbike helmet, that is key.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MTT View Post

Interesting thread.

 

First as some of you know I OFTEN ski without a helmet

There are time when I just know I need a helmet.  I have been riding dirt bikes strtt bikes most of my life and I am comfortable with the SNUG secure fit or a good bike helmet

 

I also know that the things I am doing on the mountain if something goes bad a Ski Helmet is not going to help me.  If I glance of a tree or rock @ 50+MPH the Shoe might save my life.

 

That Helmet cast allot of Money it has allot of carbon fiber in t.  Weight is 1200 grams

It has adjustable ventilation.  It fits very snug and does not drag lift or move at very high speed.  If does not even create wind noise @80MPH

 

So it VERY EXPENSIVE / VERY SAFE.  And it looks COOL AS HELL

 

But it is not on my head that often.  And that’s my chose

 

After Sking in this helmet for three seasons I know I have the right gear

 

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