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Share your freeride boot experiences...

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 

Looking for experiences only. Individuals wanting to give advice need not bother with this thread.

 

Background: I am about to embark on getting myself a new freeride boot. I ski every type of condition and trail so I need versatility. I ski at a level 7/8. The boots that fit me best in the heel and instep have been listed below. I have a good idea of and am ready for the amount of work the forefoot each boot will require to fit me best.

 

I am looking for feedback from people that have experienced any of the boots listed. If you have used the Head Mojo XP, Atomic Nuke 120, Fischer Soma x-120, Nordica Blower or Technica Agent 110. Boots that have been left out were either way too tight in the forefoot or the entire foot or not considered ideal for what I am interested in.

 

 I would like to hear what you have to say about your boot experience. Comment on your carving and bump run rating of the boot, shell design and cold weather impact, lateral stiffness, cuff angles, cuff height and cuff adjustments, boot sole ramp angle, forward lean, boot flex, liner performance, resistance to packing out or anything else you might like to share about the boot good or bad.

 

If anyone has any specs on the above noted boots that they could share that would also be great.


Edited by jmcosmo65 - 4/21/2009 at 07:20 pm GMT
post #2 of 13

One piece of advice that you may not want is that on the Internet, nobody cares about you nor what you want.  Part of that is reflected in the fact that I'm giving advice, which you have stated that you don't want.  I mean, who gives a flying fuck about what you want or don't want?  Who are you to me, or anybody else here?  You're not even a regular.

 

Try this sort of post on TGR and see yourself digitally tarred-and-feathered in six posts, I guarantee you.

 

Fact: if you want pre-formatted information tailored to your preferences served on a platter, it generally costs money.  That's what professional bootfitters are for.

 

Fact: one can get great information from forums if you don't come across as an over-demanding ass.  At the outset, I had no reason to like or dislike you.  However, the tone of this thread and your posts in other threads have already colored my opinion of you.  The reason I even looked in this thread is because I actually have relevant info on a related boot model, but I don't feel inclined to share it with you.

 

Advice:  Ask nicely.  Cajole people.  Talk to them (as opposed to issuing edicts).  Feign humility if you have to.  Beg, if it's appropriate.  Allow them lots of room to express themselves.  Thank people.  I mean, all this is obvious in real life.  What makes you think this society is any different?

post #3 of 13

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DtEW View Post

One piece of advice that you may not want is that on the Internet, nobody cares about you nor what you want.  Part of that is reflected in the fact that I'm giving advice, which you have stated that you don't want.  I mean, who gives a flying fuck about what you want or don't want?  Who are you to me, or anybody else here?  You're not even a regular.

 

Try this sort of post on TGR and see yourself digitally tarred-and-feathered in six posts, I guarantee you.

 

Fact: if you want pre-formatted information tailored to your preferences served on a platter, it generally costs money.  That's what professional bootfitters are for.

 

Fact: one can get great information from forums if you don't come across as an over-demanding ass.  At the outset, I had no reason to like or dislike you.  However, the tone of this thread and your posts in other threads have already colored my opinion of you.  The reason I even looked in this thread is because I actually have relevant info on a related boot model, but I don't feel inclined to share it with you.

 

Advice:  Ask nicely.  Cajole people.  Talk to them (as opposed to issuing edicts).  Feign humility if you have to.  Beg, if it's appropriate.  Allow them lots of room to express themselves.  Thank people.  I mean, all this is obvious in real life.  What makes you think this society is any different?



 

post #4 of 13
Thread Starter 

Interesting. I don't get these kind of responses but what the heck I guess it is what it is. I have no problem begging for information if it will get what I am looking for and yes you will have to excuse my opening as I had a crappy attitude after communicating with snowfun3 today. If that insulted you and you have to judge me as someone that you do not like from that one conversation then that is too bad for me because I did not even get a chance to find out anything about you.

 

Richie, I don't get your amusement with this. The following sentence was taken from a opening message from you. "Yeah I know if I was a great skier I could ski on a pair of 2x4's...well I'm not and cant so get over it I dont need your sarcasm, Thanks".

 

So how is my comment and request any different?

 

I guess this is either my initiation or my hint to go to TGR. BTW it only took one reply to get tarred and you say I could have gotten 6 by the sound of it at TGR. Come on guys, lighten up and make this a fun place to come for information for non regulars too. Your choice I agree but what have you got to lose? I might be able to help yyou some day, you never know.

post #5 of 13

You are barking up the wrong tree. The fit is more important than the boot. Just make sure the boot fits great and has a flex that you like. You want the boot to makes you feel balanced and can be reactive to subtle movements. You can go on the cheap without a boot fitter and take chances with ebay/craigslist/sales or bite the bullet and pay the piper.

 

B.T.W. Almost all stock footbeds suck. The same boot with two different footbeds can be hugely different animals.

post #6 of 13
Thread Starter 

Hi rizcorpl,

 

I like the responses and feedback you are giving me so I hope you can help me with this. I am not trying  to be arogant or smart I really do value the knowledge on this website. If guilty of anything it is trying to get some information for free.

 

In response to your message it seems I am not communicating clearly. I am not suggesting that boot fit is not the single most important element. I agree and think it is the single most important element and why I have to change boots once again. I also agree that equally important is a great bootfitter and custom footbeds which I have and paid $190 to get made.

 

The point I am trying very hard to communicate but seem to be missing and upsetting more people than needed is that when you buy sneakers you do not try on 200 hundred sneakers to see which fits best and then buy the best fitting one. There are many, many differences in sneakers and likewise in ski boots as I am learning. I talk to fellow joggers when I want to buy a new sneaker even though we do not have the same feet or run the same. this is because I can take the information they given and relate taht to my foot, style and needs. This is really no different the the massive amount of knowledge a bootfitter gains by servicing hundreds or thousands of people.

 

What I wish to do is learn a little and I do not expect someone to be able to tell me this is the boot for me. This is my way of being more cautious before I spend anymore time or money trying or buying boots.

 

I believe in the try before you buy, I am not looking for a cheap solution and I will not buy boots from anywhere except in person and with someone that I will enjoy working with as I know I will need work because of various foot issues that I have. Maybe my questions are too broad, worded incorrectly or maybe I have been reading too much and I am completely out in left field and need my head checked.

post #7 of 13

Ok, I may have jumped the gun a there a bit.  It was based on your conversation with snowfun3 and the seeming tone that your OP had that caused such a reaction.  I guess I also proved the point that no matter what is asked for in a thread, it really is much less than binding, LOL.

 

Without going into a long story about my own experiences with a bootfitter (it's not actually a long story, but I reflect on many aspects of it), I will just get into the nitty-gritty and tell you about the boot that you might have interest in.  My main pair of boots are the Atomic RT FR 100.  I use them in the smallest shell size: 24.5.  It is the predecessor to the Atomic Nuke series, or rather, the Nuke is just a slightly-refreshed Atomic RT FR/CS.  The FR, CS, and Nuke all feature identical 98mm-width lasts.  They are obviously narrower than the Salomon XWave last, which is 102mm-width (this was my prior boot).  If the XWave was giving you bunions due to their width, the Atomic RT FR/CS/Nuke is probably going to be worse.

 

That said, at least in relation to my own feet, the XWaves shells were far from anatomically-designed.  For example, the highest point of the instep was closer to the center of the boot than that of the RT FR/CS/Nuke's, which were located more inboard.  Look at your feet.  Where is the highest point of your instep?  The XWaves, despite being touted as "high volume, which is right your your high arch and instep," by my old bootfitter, actually required more work on the tongue to accommodate my instep.  The RT FR/CS (both of which I own) required no work whatsoever, despite being a considerably lower-volume boot.  Granted, I was at the end of their range of accommodation in terms of shell overlap, but the point is that they fit, and fit well due to their more anatomical shape, at least as it related to my feet.  In conversation my current bootfitter (who was not the one who fitted me for these particular boots), he mentioned that the Atomic RT CS/RT/Nuke fits a particular type of feet well, and that he carries them because sponsored racers that frequent his shop (this is a full-bore race shop) require them for sponsorship obligations.  This reads to me that the applicability range (as it relates to a bootfitter whose job is to match a near-infinite number of footshapes to a limited selection of boots that he can stock) of these boots are narrow, and that it is not really worth his inventory to have them unless it was for this dedicated clientele.  This also reads to me that the boots might be too anatomically-fit for a given foot type for their own good.  But if you fit them, hey, you're in luck. :D

 

He also left me with the advice to "hang onto these boots."  Remember that he didn't sell these to me.

 

Going back to the XWaves, it is easy to understand why bootfitters would stock these en-masse.  Their fit is not terribly dependent on the shell shape, but rather on the thickness and malleability of their liners to a large range of feet, given that you're within the ballpark of width and volume, of course.  It's too bad though, that Salomon liners (at this relative low-end within their range, pointed out by another shop guy who experienced good durability with his higher-end Salomon liners) don't seem to last too long before packing out completely.  It got to a point that my feet swam around in those bootfitter-fitted XWaves in every which direction.  I had to crank those down to the point where I was losing circulation (as the distorted shell started putting pressure where they weren't supposed to), and the shell was a leaky sieve.  I had to invest in Boot Gloves to keep my feet from freezing.

 

If there is a point to all this, it's that quantitations like "last-width" or "volume" are quite incomplete in predicting how a boot will fit a given unique foot (not even pair of feet).  All you can do is to just try them on.

Other things to note:

 

There is only about a mm of grinding that can be done with the front of the footboard of the RT FR/CS (dunno about the Nuke, as there is something said about a "shock absorbing footboard") before it starts to dip below the sides of the boots.  This will be relevant if you are at the edge of a given boot's range of accommodation/fit, and decide to go for a custom footbed, which tend to add a little bit more height/reduces a little bit of volume.

 

The heel of the RT FR/CS is also considerably narrower than the XWave.  As is the ankle, etc.  My current bootfitter's comment in reference to the XWave's ankle: "the barrel".

 

The lower shell of the RT FR/CS is much more rigid than that of the XWave.  Some say this is the secret to how well they ski.  Although an imperfect test, I can grab the toe and heel lugs of a boot and twist.  The XWaves twist a lot.  The RT FR/CS, barely so.

 

My feet: E width.  High instep and arch.  Supinator.  Meatier/sinewier-than-average feet, as I'm a climber/boulderer and routinely toe and edge on small holds.


Edited by DtEW - 4/22/2009 at 02:30 am GMT
post #8 of 13
Thread Starter 

DtEW, thank you for your feedback I truly appeciate the second chance you have given me.

 

You make several intersting points and one is my most recent observation. Recently I too learned taht last numbers aren't the best to go by an dthat you need to try a boot on. I have tried many boots that should have fit my foot because they are wider lasts but would have required as much or more work than narrower last boots. Boots like the Dalbello Proton, the Rossignol B Squad 90 and a few other wider last boots did not fit as expected likely because of the shape. As for the X Waves they likely did not fit well because at that time I did not have custom foot beds and since my feet pronate and widen I was probably not able to judge them the same as if I tried them today. That said the Salomon Impact Pro boots fit me pretty good out of the box and would likely only require a bit of work.

 

I am interested in your Atomic experience and how you compare that to the X Wave. It is good to hear that you find the lateral stiffness strong and that you are being advised that this is a good shell for racers. So how do you feel about the 100 flex boot and why did you chose that over the 120 or was the 120 not available then? I think it is funny too that the Atomic Nuke fits in fact it fits about as well as the Head Mojo XP, this was when I threw out the whole idea that last numbers were the way to shop for a short list of boots. The only difference between the Atomic and Head boot is I find is that the Atomic Nuke seems to require a heel lift to get my heel higher so that it is not grinding against the back of the boot, this was at the recommendation of the bootfitter. It seems that the heel area is not so friendly with my large calcaneous but it is overcome with the lift. I am hesitant on the idea of buying a boot that needs a heel lift just to get my heel in a spot that does not hurt. I think in a case like this I might be better to look at the Mojo which will not require that. I would consider the Impact Pro but that is not quite the kind of boot I want. I am looking for something to do bumps, jumps and huck off drops. Anyone using the Impact Pro for that kind of skiing could chime in and let me know how they find it.

post #9 of 13

This place is getting more and more insane day by day. 

 

If you find a boot out of the box that fits, buy it. If you don't, buy one your bootfitter can fit to you. 

 

Seriously, you need to listen to your boot-fitter and stop inquiring on a forum. You're wasting your time. 

 

All boots huck off drops. 

 

Performance discussion is not common in regards to boots because fit is so different from skier to skier. It's a moot point.

 

 

 

 

 

 

post #10 of 13

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by samurai View Post

This place is getting more and more insane day by day. 

 

If you find a boot out of the box that fits, buy it. If you don't, buy one your bootfitter can fit to you. 

 

Seriously, you need to listen to your boot-fitter and stop inquiring on a forum. You're wasting your time. 

 

All boots huck off drops. 

 

Performance discussion is not common in regards to boots because fit is so different from skier to skier. It's a moot point.

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's hopeless - go to this thread  -http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/70932/freeride-boots/30#post_1094018and read from post 19 on.

 

Hopeless.

post #11 of 13

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmcosmo65 View Post

 

I am interested in your Atomic experience and how you compare that to the X Wave. It is good to hear that you find the lateral stiffness strong and that you are being advised that this is a good shell for racers. So how do you feel about the 100 flex boot and why did you chose that over the 120 or was the 120 not available then?


My old fitter noted that given my skiing intentions (all mountain, no racing) and my relatively low height/weight, there was no good reason to go for a super-stiff boot.  He noted that many of those who do so without being large/heavy nor involved with racing was doing so as a function of ego and me-too-ism at the expense of overall skiing performance.  Therefore he fit me into the XWave 8, which had a flex index of 90.  When I was in the shopping process that eventually gave me my RT FR/CS, I was looking for either a 100 or 110 flex (this is flawed since flex ratings do not carry between manufacturers), which would be an incremental increase in stiffness.  The 100-flex RT FR/CS has worked out well, but also made me aware of how certain shell designs can provide progressive resistance to flex, while others are prone to capitulation (well, not that dramatic, but certainly not progressive, perhaps mildly regressive past a certain point of flex.)

 

Actually, I was not advised either way regarding whether this shell was good for racers.  Again, the fitter commented that this race shop carried it primarily due to sponsorship obligations of its clientele.  It only means that Atomic has some sponsored racers in the Tahoe area.  I do imagine, however, that a sponsored racer would be more likely using the RT TI, or even the RS plug boots.

 

samurai and snofun3 do have a valid point, that is, you should use a bootfitter's expertise to fit you to the right boots.  However, the reason why I'm even discussing this is that my experience has taught me that although you should definitely utilize the bootfitter's expertise and experience, a consumer has to educate him/herself to the point where you can recognize whether your fitter is competent, and where his interests diverge from yours.  For example, in the case of my packed-out bootfitter-fitted XWaves, the logical next-step with that bootfitter would have been to buy Intuition custom liners.  It would have costed less than jumping ship to an entirely new boot, but the reality is that would have been a fix to deal with liners that had low durability and shells that didn't really fit my specific foot-shapes that well anyways.  In the end, I would have a very modified (read: hacked-up) boot that was done so to alleviate its basic deficiencies/incompatibilities.  That's why I stopped it right there.

post #12 of 13
Thread Starter 

DtEW thank you for the great advice and explanation behind it. This will be very helpful when I am out buying my next boot.

post #13 of 13

This answer may not be relevant to your post but if you are skiing a long 177 or 184 mid fat or

fat ski they handle better with stiff semi race boots from my experience 130 flex.

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