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Terminology question: What's a javalin turn?

post #1 of 9
Thread Starter 
I have read a couple postings here recently that refered to a javalin turn as a turn performed on the inside ski. For many years I and the other coaches in our race program used javalin turns as a training exercise, but it did not incorperate skiing on the inside ski when we did it. Our javalin turns were performed by lifting the inside ski and crossing it over the top of the outside ski till it approached a 90 degree orientaion to the outside ski and held that position for the duration of the turn. At the end of each turn the ski was returned to its normal position and a new turn was initiated with the new inside ski cross over the new outside ski. It was a good exercise for developing lateral balance on the outside ski while simotaneoously placing the hip in a countered position.

So my question is what gives? Were we using the term inaccurately all those years or was it missused in the posts I read. Did someone change the definition on us? : If it were us who was wrong whats the name of the drill we were doing?

Ya know when your teaching in a race program there is much room for individual innovation and straying from the mold in terminology and teaching models. You have the same kids for years, day in and day out, so as long as everyone is on the same page nothing has to correspond with the program down the road. It very well could be we had the wrong nomenclature.
post #2 of 9
post #3 of 9
Thread Starter 
Thanks Ryan, I guess Egan agrees with my usage of the term. Glad I wasn't spreading confusion to all those little racers. Hope the people who's posts I read are tuned into this thread. :
post #4 of 9
What you describe is what I think is a javelin turn. Lift the inside ski and point it over the outside at as great an angle as possible. It's a good way to check your balance apart from anything else.

post #5 of 9
So white pass turn is a mirror image of javelin?
post #6 of 9
The above referances to it's use are correct, but here is a historical note:

The Javelin Turn was a trick origionally performed back in the late '60's by barnstorming stunt skier Art Fuerer(?), and later by Corkey fowler and others. Art skied on the black & white striped Hart Javelin and he named the trick after those skis (for his sponsor).

I saw him do his exhibition routine at Aspen in '68 or '69 on Little Nell doing Javelins, Royal Christies, Charleston, Outriggers, 360's and such. I thought it was great stuff and immediatly started working on learning to do all those trick turns, with which I competed in Freestyle events in early '70's.

As for the "White Pass Turn".
It is initiated as a one ski weighted release on old outside/new inside ski, turning into the falline on it's little toe edge as the new outside ski hangs a few inches off the snow. About the falline, as the skier continues to tip up further on edge, the outside ski settles into the snow and takes over as turn dynamics increase pressure redistribution to the outside ski.

The Mahres (Phil and Steve) from White Pass, WA were prone to doing this in GS, and they were fast, so it caught on. It is seen in current GS, especially when outside ski pressure is so great that skier cannot release it completely before edge change. Can occur either by accident, or on purpose. A very usefull training drill, as the CM must be allowed to flow across to inside of new turn, or it cannot be done. Also good for developing little toe balance, edging and turn shaping skills.

All skiing is stunt skiing, if we remember to laugh often enough.

[ February 19, 2003, 12:07 PM: Message edited by: Arcmeister ]
post #7 of 9
It may be that people (perhaps including myself) got the skis confused when describing javelin turns. Sometimes I get all focused on a portion of a turn and instead of using (I think) clear outside/inside ski tags I use uphill/downhill ski- without a reference to where in the turn the skier is at that time. Sorry for any confusion that may have caused.

As it has been explained to me, your javelin turn sounds like my javelin turn. Only yours probably looks a lot better.
post #8 of 9
Thread Starter 
Arc, thanks for the history lesson, that's quite a library of info you have in that head of yours. I remember when all those freestyle tricks were the hot thing on the slopes, everyone doing them. Don't forget THE WORM TURN, a trick I never did really enjoy performing. I always used those tricks you mentioned as balance drills in training my racers, great for developing versatility and adds much fun to the class.

One thing I can add on the WHITE PASS TURN. Here the terminology seems to have changed from when it initially emerged. It was first introduced to the ski world by Steve Mahre as a spontaneous move he made as a result of being late in the course and needing to immediately initiate a new turn by diving into it. It was not something he ever practiced before hand, it was just something that happened out of ergent neccessity (the mother of invention).

When the race world noticed him doing this move it was coined the WHITE PASS LEAN reflecting how the body would project to the inside of the skis and down the fall line. Its not really a turn because the move is really only a turn intitiation variation, total inside ski pressure is quickly aborted and the completion of the turn is still conventionally outside ski dominant. Just a little more history for ya all. :
post #9 of 9
Where I came from, the javelin turn is just a little different.
We are taught to lift the inside ski, but that's where things start to differ.

It's a much more difficult manuvere when the downhill ski is steered underneath the lifted uphill ski, which remains pointed generally down the fall line. It's an exercise used primarily for developing the skill of pivoting the leg. It's best practiced on moderate/gentle blue terrain.

Both variations are useful exercises, of course, but do try this and the following two modifications to really expose your skills of pivoting.

Advanced javelin turns: do not let the tail of the lifted ski touch the snow.

Expert javelin turns: do not let the tail of the lifted ski touch the snow, nor do you let your pole tips touch the snow.
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