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What's up with Dynastar?

post #1 of 28
Thread Starter 

from: http://pistehors.com/news/ski/comments/0921-massive-cash-bail-out-for-dynastar/

dated monday 13 April

[bold added]


Massive cash bail-out for Dynastar

Sallanches based Dynastar is to receive a massive cash injection of € 38 million from its owners, Rossignol. A statement from the board of directors claims that Dynastar is losing over € 1 million a week. Despite a good ski season in Europe Rossignol group has been the victim of strategic decisions compounded by the credit crunch.

 

Figures from the SnowSports Industries America (SIA) say that sales of ski and snowboard equipment, clothing and accesories in February 2009 had declined 16% year on year in the US market. Commentators note that the industry has held up better than other sectors but that winter sports enthusiasts are no longer ready to pay high prices. Experts say that shops still need stock to sell in 2009-10, the problem now is how to finance inventory. Rossignol’s cash will help Dynastar pay suppliers and adapt production to the projected market. The group overproduced in 2008-9 and was left with around 250,000 unsold skis. A move that surprised industry watchers giving the looming worldwide financial problems.


 

Anyone know about this situation with Dynastar?

post #2 of 28

Wonder if this means we can expect some fire sale deals on 09 skis.  They've already announced and started trickling out next year's gear, and I've already seen some 2010 Sultans for sale.

post #3 of 28

Their skis seem to have been on firesale all year. 

post #4 of 28

I know a bit about this.  I have a few good friends who work for Dynastar and as of this past Wednesday, I'll be skiing for them (makes sense since I've been on their boots and bindings for a long time). 

 

The last several years Dynastar has seen a large increase in their sales so for the 2009 season they greatly increased their productivity.  Then Quicksilver sold the Rossignol group and with the way they had Rossi and Dynastar structured Dynastar had way over build their '09 line.  For 2010 they have dropped theri production levels down to more "usual" levels.  Under the QS rule Dynastar was building quite a lot of Rossi skis and of course all Rossi bindings and Rossi boots were actually Look and Lange designs.  While the Look/Rossi relationship is longterm the way QS set things up was a hit on the books of Dynastar.  Long story kind of short-ish...Dynastar/Look/Lange have seen great growth for several years, they did overbuild their lines for this past year, and QS "billed" Dynastar for too much of the production that was actually Rossignol

post #5 of 28

Dynastar, Roxy and Rossi are well overstocked and in huge financial debt. The over production of 250K is on top of the 100k+ of previous years skis too. 

post #6 of 28

I've heard stories from dealers here, too, of huge Dynastar overstock. Rossi's reputation is in the toilet in this market, though Dynastar and Lange have a lot of brand equity still.

post #7 of 28

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by skier219 View Post

Wonder if this means we can expect some fire sale deals on 09 skis.  They've already announced and started trickling out next year's gear, and I've already seen some 2010 Sultans for sale.

 

I would think the more relevant issue is whether any retailers here actually ordered (or will be willing to order for the Epic masses) '08/09 Dynastars in any sort of quantity.

post #8 of 28

I'd consider a 4x4 Contact at a "help out Dynastar" price....

post #9 of 28

Sierraskis has that "helpout" price of $455 right now for the 4x4.

post #10 of 28

The deals on Dynastar have flooded the market for a few years, so much so that I almost put them in the category of discount merchandise instead of top quality ski gear.   I'm not saying that that's what they are, just that its where my perception of them has gone with the deep discounts that can be had on them no matter the time of year. 

post #11 of 28

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossi Smash View Post

I'd consider a 4x4 Contact at a "help out Dynastar" price....

 

That though most certainly crossed my mind.  How did the Olin price points faire when they went down the tubes?

post #12 of 28

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trekchick View Post

The deals on Dynastar have flooded the market for a few years, so much so that I almost put them in the category of discount merchandise instead of top quality ski gear.   I'm not saying that that's what they are, just that its where my perception of them has gone with the deep discounts that can be had on them no matter the time of year. 

That's interesting because Dynastar has been producing many of their top skis in their facilities in France at a much higher cost than their competitors.  It sounds like their marketing strategy is all screwed up as their dumping of skis has lessened their image while they charge some of the highest retail prices for a major brand.

 

One problem Dynastar has is they tend to run the same model much longer than most brands.  While a ski like the Mythic Rider can still hold its own, not having a new version puts retailers in a tough spot as their customers don't see a reason to get new skis plus they have to compete with cut-rate prices on the internet for 2 year old models of the same ski.

post #13 of 28

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rio View Post

 

One problem Dynastar has is they tend to run the same model much longer than most brands.  While a ski like the Mythic Rider can still hold its own, not having a new version puts retailers in a tough spot as their customers don't see a reason to get new skis plus they have to compete with cut-rate prices on the internet for 2 year old models of the same ski.

 

I don't quite get that logic.  Volkl Mantra and Gotama have been on the market for at least as long as the Mythic Rider, and their longevity hasn't hurt their sales or image in any way.   Moreover, a longer-running ski builds reputation, Salomon XScream Series was also in production for a very long time and that ski has built up a huge following.  Ditto for Gotama, or LegendPro.  In my impression Dynastar's strategy was/is to keep the name of a particular ski and then tweak it some each year to get better performance or wider envelope.  

 

They do make some of the best skis out there, so if you can get them at firesale prices, get them, ski them, and enjoy... 

 

 

post #14 of 28

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trekchick View Post

The deals on Dynastar have flooded the market for a few years, so much so that I almost put them in the category of discount merchandise instead of top quality ski gear.   I'm not saying that that's what they are, just that its where my perception of them has gone with the deep discounts that can be had on them no matter the time of year. 


 

Updated March 16, 2009: 50-65% off all remaining skis.  All prices include free mounting to your boot sole length; hot wax/scrape/brush, and edge bevel.  Call 541-593-2453 to place an order, feel free to send me a PM if you have any questions or need recommendations.  Listed below are the skis currently in stock.
 
Head
Mojo 94 Flat 173/187cm $339
Monster iM82 171/177cm Flat $369
Monster iM78 177cm Flat $359
iSupershape Magnum Flat 170cm $459
 
Elan
Magfire 78ti w/ELD12 182cm $399
Magfire 78 w/EL11 160/176cm $329
888 Flat $329
777 Flat $309
Magfire 10 Ti w/EL11 $339
Magfire 82ti w/binding (special order) 168/176 $525
Magfire 82Xti w/binding (special order) 184 $565
 
Dynastar
Contact 4x4 w/PX14 172cm $549 (1 left)
Contact 10 w/PX12 178cm $419
Legend Pro Rider Flat 176cm $399
Legend Pro Rider w/Jester 184cm skied 2x $500
Legend Mythic Rider Flat $359/PX12 $509
Legend 8000 Fluid w/PX12 $379
Speed Course WC w/PX14 $469
Giant Slalom WC w/PX14 $559
 
Well, according to Dawgatching's sale, they're holding up somewhat better than Head and Elan.
 
I don't get all the conjecture here - as stated in the original post, they OVERPRODUCED, as a result of misreading the market, and / or maybe not expecting the last year's FUBAR thanks to our friends in the banking industry, ie " Rossignol group has been the victim of strategic decisions compounded by the credit crunch". Anybody try to sell their house lately?
 
Why all the intrigue and conspiracy theories?


 

"It sounds like their marketing strategy is all screwed up as their dumping of skis has lessened their image" - They probably weren't aware of the impending financial tsunami that's made a mockery of virtually any business plan - who here put their 401k's in cash in Oct 07?

 

From what appears to be the concensus here and TGR, I haven't seen any evidence of any image lessening as far as Dynastar's concerned - who wouldn't want a nice set of 4800's, 8K's, MR's, LP's, XXL's, 4 x 4's etc?

post #15 of 28

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexzn View Post

 

 

I don't quite get that logic.  Volkl Mantra and Gotama have been on the market for at least as long as the Mythic Rider, and their longevity hasn't hurt their sales or image in any way.   Moreover, a longer-running ski builds reputation, Salomon XScream Series was also in production for a very long time and that ski has built up a huge following.  Ditto for Gotama, or LegendPro.  In my impression Dynastar's strategy was/is to keep the name of a particular ski and then tweak it some each year to get better performance or wider envelope.  

 

They do make some of the best skis out there, so if you can get them at firesale prices, get them, ski them, and enjoy... 

 

 

The Gotama has been redesigned every couple years.  It also has had a major cosmetic overhaul yearly.  The Mythic Rider has had minor cosmetic changes (making it hard to distiguish one year from the other) and no advertised performance changes. 

 

Personally, I'm a big Dynastar fan and bought two pair of Mythic Riders in different lengths this year.  I also bought my girlfriend some Legend Exclusive Powders (a terribly misnamed ski.)  All three pair were made in Chamonix and the quality shows.  All three were also last year models being dumped on the Internet cheap.

 

post #16 of 28

I hope that this "misery" will continue for a few years as I would like to add some of their models to my quiver in the future without paying too much :-) 

 

J.

post #17 of 28

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rio View Post

 

The Gotama has been redesigned every couple years.  It also has had a major cosmetic overhaul yearly.  The Mythic Rider has had minor cosmetic changes (making it hard to distiguish one year from the other) and no advertised performance changes. 

 

Personally, I'm a big Dynastar fan and bought two pair of Mythic Riders in different lengths this year.  I also bought my girlfriend some Legend Exclusive Powders (a terribly misnamed ski.)  All three pair were made in Chamonix and the quality shows.  All three were also last year models being dumped on the Internet cheap.

 


Thew Mythic is only out for it's second year (before it was the 8800), and it has a significantly different flex from the 8800.
 

 

Most of the Dynastar changes have been evolutionary (4mm more tip on the 8k, softening the LP in 176 length etc), but I think that's because they had a superior product to start with.

post #18 of 28

Agreed -- the 8K has been a fantastic ski.  I am glad they resisted the urge to mess with it too much.

 

Dynastar is still tops in my book.  I'll be glad to snag a couple pairs at a big discount!  What will hurt the company is the expectations of people like me, who won't want to pay street price if we know we can wait a few months and get them for dirt cheap at the end of the season.  It will take them a few years to work through that image.

post #19 of 28

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by skier219 View Post

Agreed -- the 8K has been a fantastic ski.  I am glad they resisted the urge to mess with it too much.

 

Stand by - Next season it becomes the Sultan, with a MR sized tip and tail, and a 85mm waist.

 

I tried them at Snowbird and found them to be more than an 8k, but less than a MR - hmmmm. Probably a great PNW ski (or even a least coast "powder ski), but not sure about UT, CO. 

 

post #20 of 28

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by snofun3 View Post

 


Most of the Dynastar changes have been evolutionary (4mm more tip on the 8k, softening the LP in 176 length etc), but I think that's because they had a superior product to start with.

 

Being evolutionary just doesn't pay off in the real world.  Planned obsolescence does.  I think Dynastar's decisions to make superiorly crafted products in France and to avoid making radical changes to great skis is wonderful for us Dynastar fans but (sadly) it isn't turning out to be a practical business model as the ski buying public keeps being enticed by what is supposedly the latest and greatest.

post #21 of 28

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rio View Post

 

 

Being evolutionary just doesn't pay off in the real world.  Planned obsolescence does.  I think Dynastar's decisions to make superiorly crafted products in France and to avoid making radical changes to great skis is wonderful for us Dynastar fans but (sadly) it isn't turning out to be a practical business model as the ski buying public keeps being enticed by what is supposedly the latest and greatest.


K2 continues to sell, and people continue to buy Recons. Go figure.
 

post #22 of 28

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by snofun3 View Post

 

Stand by - Next season it becomes the Sultan, with a MR sized tip and tail, and a 85mm waist.

 

I tried them at Snowbird and found them to be more than an 8k, but less than a MR - hmmmm. Probably a great PNW ski (or even a least coast "powder ski), but not sure about UT, CO. 

 

 

There are two Sultan models -- the Sultan 80 is the replacement for the 8K, while the Sultan 85 is a new model.  I skied the 85 and liked it, haven't skied the 80 yet though.

post #23 of 28

Don't blame Dynastar for the ignorance of the skiing public as a whole. A longer life cycle, 2-3 years is a good thing. Evolutionary makes better skis than BNG (bold new graphics)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rio View Post

 

 

Being evolutionary just doesn't pay off in the real world.  Planned obsolescence does.  I think Dynastar's decisions to make superiorly crafted products in France and to avoid making radical changes to great skis is wonderful for us Dynastar fans but (sadly) it isn't turning out to be a practical business model as the ski buying public keeps being enticed by what is supposedly the latest and greatest.

 

 

post #24 of 28

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by snofun3 View Post

 

 

Why all the intrigue and conspiracy theories?


 


No conspiracy theory from my direction.  I just posted my perception based on bargain basement sales.  Dynastar is not the only mfgr in that nut shell.

 

 

post #25 of 28

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by skier219 View Post

 

 

There are two Sultan models -- the Sultan 80 is the replacement for the 8K, while the Sultan 85 is a new model.  I skied the 85 and liked it, haven't skied the 80 yet though.


Thanks - OK, I was on the 85 - Really nice 'tweener between the 8k and MR, but maybe they now have too many models in that catagory (?).
 

post #26 of 28

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by snofun3 View Post

 


Thanks - OK, I was on the 85 - Really nice 'tweener between the 8k and MR, but maybe they now have too many models in that catagory (?).
 


Exactly what I was thinking -- be interesting to see how they shake out in a year or two.  The MR is still unique in that it's longer turning and has a different feel, but I think the Sultan 85 is perhaps a better overall ski for a customer looking for something wider than the 80/8K and narrower than the Legend Pro.  Hard to say.  I'm no marketing wizard.

post #27 of 28

  In my book the sweet spot for an everyday Western ski nowadays is ~94 mm.  It has enough float and stability for the soft and rough and enough sidecut and edge hold for the hard snow days.  It is not surprising that so many decent skis hew to this "Mantra" formula: Mantra, W94, Mojo94, the new Bizzard (whatever it is named), etc.   Dynastar Legend is somewhat unique that it does not have a ski between 88mm (Mythic) and 100mm (LPR), so I was surprised to see them put out new models at 80 and 85mm (in addition to the existing 88!), but nothing in the mid-90's.  Still great skis though, waist size is not everything.

 

 

post #28 of 28

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexzn View Post

  In my book the sweet spot for an everyday Western ski nowadays is ~94 mm.  It has enough float and stability for the soft and rough and enough sidecut and edge hold for the hard snow days.  It is not surprising that so many decent skis hew to this "Mantra" formula: Mantra, W94, Mojo94, the new Bizzard (whatever it is named), etc.   Dynastar Legend is somewhat unique that it does not have a ski between 88mm (Mythic) and 100mm (LPR), so I was surprised to see them put out new models at 80 and 85mm (in addition to the existing 88!), but nothing in the mid-90's.  Still great skis though, waist size is not everything.

 

 


94mm huh?

Are you talking about my Snoop Daddy's?

Yes, those are pretty sweet :-)

 

J.

 

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