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Help Me Brainstorm 2010 Western Trip For Eastern Ski Buddies

post #1 of 32
Thread Starter 

The ski season here in the east is drawing to a close. (What happened to all the March and April storms this year?) I’m not really ready to let go, and so have started to think about next year.

 

I ski (and bike) regularly with a group of friends from work. We keep threatening to take some kind of budget trip out west together. Maybe it can happen next year. I thought I would pick this group’s brains for:

 

1) general money-saving strategies that don’t require nineteen-year-old-ski-bum-style compromises in basic levels of convenience, privacy and comfort, and that leave room for a pace and style that says “vacation,” not “boot camp.”

 

2) specific ideas for locations and / or places to stay with which you have first-hand positive experience

 

Here is some background:

 

Who we are: group of 4 – 8 skiers, all men, all work in software development in one capacity or another. Age range is early 30s to mid 50s. We are reasonably fit and are all strong, fast skiers, using more or less solid modern technique on our native New England terrain and conditions. However, none of us is a cliff-hucking daredevil; we’re not going west so we can ski Corbet’s or the ledges at Squaw or otherwise court Darwin awards. We race in a weeknight league and occasionally free ski together on weekends too. One of us is on tele-skis, and another will get on a snowboard if there are freshies. One of us is a level 2 PSIA coach. Most of us have skied out west once or twice and can whoop it up competently on a powder day, but none of us has what you would call extensive experience with a broad range of western areas or off-piste conditions.

 

Logistical considerations: Trip should be a short week. Prefer non-holiday week to avoid crowds and conflicts with family obligations. Want to spend 4 or 5 nights, so that we can do the whole round trip from the east coast and still be able to unwind on Sunday and arrive awake and functional at work on Monday. Need to fly out of Portland ME, Manchester NH, or Boston, in decreasing order of preference. My inclination – negotiable -  is to try to reduce the pain of what inevitably is a grueling all-day journey, virtually always with a layover and change of planes, by not trying to get to a resort that’s a super-long ride from the airport. We want to really minimize cost, and so are okay with sharing a condo, preparing most meals, staying slightly off-mountain, etc., if that’s what it takes. Ideally, though, we also do not want to be spending an hour each way in the car driving to and from the hill. East coast analogy: If we were skiing at Stowe, staying in Waterbury would be fine; staying in South Burlington, not so fine. Altitude can always be an issue when you’re coming direct from sea level, as we will be, and when you don’t have the luxury of a lot of time to acclimatize, as we won’t. So the lower the better, all other things being equal. (Some of us have been rooting for a Canadian location for this reason. I’d be interested to hear pros / cons on that. My thought is just that it seems like most of those places – except Whistler, maybe – are just really hard to get to and require expensive flights.) Time of year is not critical to us, but needs to be chosen with an eye to reliabilty of conditions and probability of scoring some powder; we don’t want a late spring trip to ski mush all week, or a December trip to ski rocks.

 

 

Skiing considerations: Although there is definitely room for contention and debate among the group, I think it’s fair to say that on balance we tend to opt, here in New England, for areas that favor high quality terrain and sparsely peopled slopes over areas that have the most/fastest lifts and/or the most highly developed resort bases. We will be looking for some of the same out west. It’s not that we don’t like high speed lifts; it’s just that we want to ski, not attend the circus. I was lucky enough to spend most of a week at Alta last year and felt at home with the casual vibe there, for example. Although I loved skiing Mineral Basin, overall I was just slightly put off by the well-heeled base area scene at Snowbird. ( Or maybe it was just the shock of seeing all those snowboarders all of a sudden. ;-) ) In a different way, when I visited Winter Park a few years ago I really didn’t like the throngs of people, or the way they more or less forced you to put all your stuff in a locker for $2.00 per door opening, or whatever it was. That just did not sit well with the Mainer in me who has for four decades always just left his gear in a free cubby in the lodge and never thought twice about it. (And never – yet - had any of it stolen.)

 

Obviously we need enough interesting terrain to keep a bunch of good skiers happy for a week. If that means splitting time between two or even three areas, that’s okay. Personally I think it’s nice to limit things to one or two areas, since one of the pleasures of a trip like this is getting to know an area well enough to focus in on favorite sections of the mountain that you know make you especially happy, rather than spending a whole week learning how to navigate new places and wasting a lot of time on cat tracks or whatever as you do so. Since this trip will be a rare western experience for us, we want at least some terrain that is classically western. Meaning, someplace with some good well-spaced tree skiing, bowl skiing, etc. Wider and softer versions of the between-the-trees fall-line cruisers we can get at home are great. We will love those, but we want something more, too. Snow: reliability is key. We can ski on crappy snow whenever we want; no point in getting on a plane for that.

 

So… have at it. Any info is good info, as long as it is thoughtfully considered and based on first-hand experience. Happy to have any of my leanings / prejudices / assumptions flouted in the interest of new ideas, as long as you can explain why. (I.e, “it’s just so totally awesome, dude” is not particularly helpful.) Thanks in advance!

 

post #2 of 32

Both the SLC area and Tahoe provide decent accomadations  with multiple  ski areas to choose from and skiing mid Jan to just before Presidents day offers relatively uncrowded slopes, of course that means driving daily but I like choices.

 

Choice two just go to Whistler/Blackcomb everyone needs to go there at least once.

post #3 of 32

SLC all the way. Cheap flights/hotels. Public transportation to slopes

post #4 of 32

SLC is a good choice.  Inexpensive lodging at the base of LCC and BCC.  And good flights from the east coast.

 

Another choice is Summit County.  Good flights into Denver.  Condos in Dillon or Silverthorne are relatively inexpensive and it's a short drive from there to Breck, Copper, Keystone and A-Basin.  While these areas are crowded on weekends with Denver area daytrippers, they are very civilized midweek.

post #5 of 32

You could have probably researched and planned your entire trip in the time it took you to write that post

 

I would second the recommendations of others, can't go wrong with places like SLC, Tahoe and Summit County.

post #6 of 32

I do 6-8 west trips a year, and for your requirements, SLC is the ticket.

 

Ease and price - Take an early flight and get a freebie (Quick Start pass) at the PC areas (savings of $80), then ski all day on the last day and take the late flight (5-6pm) home so no requirement for an additional night of accomodation.

 

Stay in the PC area, and you can do those areas, or Snowbasin / PowMow, or the Cottonwoods within an hour (or less) or your accomodation. Sometimes the lower areas have better conditions, sometimes not.

 

Having two trips suffer some hiccups this year, I suggest you get multiple two bdrm condos, so if anyone flakes out on you, you have a chance to regroup, versus having a big place with potential for empty bedrooms. Also - EVERYONE pays up-font or they're not in - I've seen second thoughts cost others $ more than a few times.

 

CO's fine, but you won't get a free day (except if you go to Steamboat, fly in via Hayden by Delta), and you can;t really ski and fly out the same day. Same with Tahoe.

 

Don't bother with WB - being a veteren of 80+ days, the distance and the potential for extended HORRIBLE weather is so great that it's not worth it. AND with the Olympics coming up it'll be a S-storm all next season.

post #7 of 32
Thread Starter 

snofun - Good detailed info based on personal experience. Excellent. Thanks.

post #8 of 32

Good selections from the group - I also agree SLC would be an excellent choice followed by Tahoe.  SLC is very convenience to get into/out airport to the slopes, have affordable accomodations, and a great variety of reserts to ski.  Tahoe is great, but will run you some more bucks.

 

Last point - I agree WB may be a crapchute...with the weather/conditions and more importantly the Olympics.  They claim 90% of the mountain will be available, but accomodations will be harder to come by and will probably be pretty expensive.

 

Enjoy....

post #9 of 32
Quote:

 AND with the Olympics coming up it'll be a S-storm all next season.

 
 and more importantly the Olympics.  They claim 90% of the mountain will be available, but accomodations will be harder to come by and will probably be pretty expensive.

Actually, the Whistler folks are afraid that everyone thinks that, and they are predicting that bookings will be way down next year. It will be crazy during the Olympics but apparently Olympic host towns routinely see a drop in tourism outside of the Olympic period the same year. And having looked for a condo during the Olympics, I can tell you prices before Feb. 12th and after Feb. 22nd are normal. But I wouldn't go because that's a long trip for you for 4-5 days.

 

You said most of you had been out west, but you didn't say if people actually had trouble with altitude. I just went with a group of 11, all from Iowa but myself and my husband, to Copper Mountain, and no one had trouble with the elevation. And Copper tops out at 12k+. So if your party doesn't have a history of trouble, I wouldn't let that dictate your vacation. Copper was a great budget (relatively) destination, and I'm sure staying in Frisco or Dillion would be even cheaper--it was so easy to find lift ticket coupons, the village isn't very exciting so lodging was reasonable, it's a great mountain with other resorts nearby, etc.

post #10 of 32
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christy View Post

You said most of you had been out west, but you didn't say if people actually had trouble with altitude.

 

I don't think any of us has had "trouble," if you mean stay-in-the-lodge-all-day-or-even-have-to-go-back-to-the-city-because-of-puking. However, I, for one, definitely operate at about 2/3 my normal capacity at altitude. Last year when my son and I were at Alta, we would try to play ping-pong before dinner but have to stop and flop on the couch after about 10 minutes because we were panting. Seriously. Both of us. It took us about another 10 minutes to climb the three flights of stairs to the dining hall, too. Okay, I'm exaggerating slightly, but not much. And I am not generally in bad aerobic shape; I cycle several times a week in the summer and xc ski in the winter. So, you're right: I won't let that dictate. But all other things being equal, lower is better.

 

My sense is that you typically get into thin or absent trees at a somewhat lower elevation in UT or CA than in CO. Is that a fair statement?

post #11 of 32

If SLC is your destination, consider the Ogden area for a little lower elevation & to get a bit off the beaten path.  Snowbasin & Powder Mountain are within striking distance.  Both offer plenty of terrain to keep guys like you occupied.

Snowbasins lifts & lodges may be a little too modern for you, but Pow Mow can make up for that  .

 

JF

post #12 of 32

During my birthday trip to CO in March this year, my wife was out of the program for three days with altitude sickness, even though she did the well known herbal supplement thing for a week in advance. We stayed at Breck, and it wasn't a good thing. Last time for her.

 

The peak of the Canyons is 9990 ft (like the lift's name) - the base of Breck is about 9300, with one lift going to 12,860, You can't predict who'll be affected by altitude sickness, but finding out during a trip sucks. 

 

CO is the highest of the areas under consideration by a few thousand feet. If any in your group hasn't found out if they're susceptible, your trip is a bad time to find out.

post #13 of 32

OK, let me go a bit off the beaten path here and recommend Jackson Hole.


Perhaps not quite so easy to get to, but in my opinion, made up by the terrain and general lack of crowds.

 

Stay in the town, reasonably priced lodging, or stay at the hostel on the mountain if you are willing to trade comfort for proximity.

 

You'll have a great, off the beaten path experience, not to mention great skiing, with as much pucker factor as you choose.

 

Larry

post #14 of 32

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by snofun3 View Post

During my birthday trip to CO in March this year, my wife was out of the program for three days with altitude sickness, even though she did the well known herbal supplement thing for a week in advance. We stayed at Breck, and it wasn't a good thing. Last time for her.

 

The peak of the Canyons is 9990 ft (like the lift's name) - the base of Breck is about 9300, with one lift going to 12,860, You can't predict who'll be affected by altitude sickness, but finding out during a trip sucks. 

 

CO is the highest of the areas under consideration by a few thousand feet. If any in your group hasn't found out if they're susceptible, your trip is a bad time to find out.

I have to agree totally. I stayed at winter park one year, on the 2nd night it hit me. We went to Berthoud for a pow day and i slept on the bench in the lodge all day and was out of comission for the next 2 days. Been to CO many times and have only been affected once. Pretty lucky, some people have to go back to Denver to get out of the altitude to recover from it. IT SUCKS

 

post #15 of 32

SCL is the fact that you do not loose 2 days in travel. You can get an early flight there and ski that day then ski your last day and fly home late.  

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post #16 of 32

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post

SCL is the fact that you do not loose 2 days in travel. You can get an early flight there and ski that day then ski your last day and fly home late.  


 

gawd - wish I had said that in post 6 .

post #17 of 32
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by snofun3 View Post

 


 

gawd - wish I had said that in post 6 .


You are a better grammarian and/or typist than Philpug, though. So take consolation in that.   Philpug, I'm assuming that your brain was going twice as fast as your fingers, and that what you meant to say was something like, "SLC is a good choice in that you do not lose 2 days in travel." Thanks. Good point.

post #18 of 32

I would agree that SLC is the most obvious choice, clear winner for cost and logistics.  Staying in town you'll be sleeping at 4,500 - 5,000 feet, even though you may ski as high as 11,000.  But sleep altitude is mainly what produces the discomfort.  The Percentage of people affected increases significantly when you move sleep altitude from 8,000 (Aspen, Vail, Snowbird, Mammoth) up to 9,000+ (Summit County, Crested Butte, Telluride, Taos Ski Valley).

 

Jackson: also would be good for your group. Sleep altitude is 6,000.  For snow surfaces do not do later than President's weekend with the SE exposure, and January is best.

 

Tahoe: Sleep altitude ~6,500.  Lots of choices like SLC, weather/snow a bit less consistent, but pretty safe mid-January to mid-March.

 

Whistler: No question in my mind business will be down in the Olympic year. I was in SLC for the first week of the Olympics, saw seven events and skied 3 empty days at Alta/Snowbird.  How empty? Try 41,000 vertical at Snowbird on a sunny Saturday of President's weekend. 

 

post #19 of 32

Tony -- informative post.  Do you know the sleep altitude for Park City?  Solitude?  Thanks.

post #20 of 32

 

 

 

Lots of good suggestions.

My two cents. IMHO for normal middle aged recreational skiers four straight full ski days is about max. If your week entails more it is productive to split with rest day in middle. Disregard if extremely fit or week includes half/easy days.

Three relatively low elevation options:

1. SLC scenario: take early flight from East, arrive on a Monday in late Feb, ski Mon PM at Deer Valley with Quickstart freebie, then stay in Park City base area and ski PCMR, DV and Canyons next few days on multiday ticket. Ski Friday AM then fly home in PM. Rent one large car or minivan for group, big SUV ok, but not mandatory. If desired, drive one or two days to ski Alta/bird or Snowbasin during the week. Elevation of PC ski areas ~7-10K feet. Budget version of SLC scenario is to stay in motels around Sandy and commute to LCC, BCC for the week.

2. Steamboat, CO, elev ~6.5-10.5K feet. Sometimes good airfares from East into nearby Hayden airport. Ski Sat-Sat take a rest day midweek. Both PC and Steamboat have interesting ski towns.

3. Tahoe, probably best for full Sat-Sat ski week from East. South Lake Tahoe offers ski town atmosphere with gambling. Elevation of skiing at Heavenly ~6-10K, Kirkwood and Sierra-at-Tahoe not too far for day trip. Airfare from East to Reno, Sac, SF often comparable to SLC.

 

Fourth option: if leaning towards full 7 day ski week consider Aspen area, band together for affordable Snowmass condo, tremendous one week destination among four bus-linked nearby ski areas, elevation of skiing ~8-12K.

post #21 of 32

Park City sleep altitude 7,000, Solitude 8,000.

 

A few people have problems at 8,000 (less than 10%),  a significant minority at 9,000 (maybe 25% at least have to take it very easy a couple of days).  Only the extremely sensitive at 7,000 or below.

 

No data here, just gut feeling from observing people over 30 years of skiing.

post #22 of 32

Since the OP said they were thinking of taking it easy in travel, and wished to fly out of locations that will require a connection in any case, I'm suggesting expanding your horizons slightly from the nobrainer of Utah.  I suggest Big Sky.  Less of a scene than Jackson.  Fantastic terrain.  Much fewer people than any of the other places suggested -- my friends from Bozeman claim the longest lift lines are rarely more than 5 or 10 people (of course, the tram line is often longer).  Relatively inexpensive, and an easy trip from the airport in Bozeman.

 

Mike

post #23 of 32
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by habacomike View Post

 an easy trip from the airport in Bozeman.

 

Mike


Thanks Mike. I like the out of the box thinking. Your points are good. I suspect a stumbling block is going to be expense and difficult logistics in flying to Bozeman. I suspect that regardless of where you're coming from it's going to be harder to get a convenient flight at a good price into Bozeman. When you're coming from Maine as we will be, it probably will mean TWO transfers, not just one. (One flight into an eastern hub that serves Portland or Manchester, one flight from there into some western hub that serves Bozeman, a third flight from there to Montana. Example: Portland -> New York -> Denver -> Bozeman.) If so, that will be too much for us. But I will research. Thanks again.

post #24 of 32
Thread Starter 

It's hard to tell right now because air pricing that far out is not available yet. But it looks as though getting to Bozeman requires an extra travel leg (either to a big city by road, or via an extra flight), 2 - 4 extra hours, and extra money.

 

PWM -> JFK -> SLC: avg $175 each way

BOS (requires 2 - 3 hr bus ride) -> DEN -> Bozeman: minimum $250 each way

post #25 of 32

Just for fun using Travelocity at lunch today I tried two scenarios flying out 6am from PWM to SLC and Hayden, CO (Steamboat) on Wed Feb 3, 2010, and returning approx 1 or 2pm on Sun Feb 7. This gives chance for half day skiing on Wed, full days Th-Sat, and half day on Sun.  Rdtrp Airfare was about same for either scenario for one-stop flights, $270. Lifts might be less in UT, but that might be countered by cheaper transfers from airport at Steamboat. This does not allow for recovery day upon return, use office cube for that :-)

post #26 of 32
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesj View Post

Just for fun using Travelocity at lunch today I tried two scenarios flying out 6am from PWM to SLC and Hayden, CO (Steamboat) on Wed Feb 3, 2010, and returning approx 1 or 2pm on Sun Feb 7. This gives chance for half day skiing on Wed, full days Th-Sat, and half day on Sun.  Rdtrp Airfare was about same for either scenario for one-stop flights, $270. Lifts might be less in UT, but that might be countered by cheaper transfers from airport at Steamboat. This does not allow for recovery day upon return, use office cube for that :-)


Thanks James.

 

Never mind the fact that I re-executed your search on Travelocity and did not find a price to Steamboat below $368.40 all in.

 

Let's talk about the fact that your proposed itinerary reveals that you must have far more youth and/or stamina than I do. A 6am flight requires getting up no later than 4am. Best case scenario assuming all flights are on time is that you don't even touch down at Hayden until noon local time (which is 2:00 Eastern time). By the time you get off the plane, collect skis (and wits), and schlep a bunch of people to the slopes with all their baggage, get changed, buy tickets, maybe have a bite to eat, etc. you can't tell me that there's realistically a half day of skiing left. Even if you did convince me that this could be done, by the time I've spent ten hours traveling across a continent and gaining 8 or 9 thousand feet of elevation , the last thing I'm going to be prepared to do is hop on a pair of skis and go up ANOTHER 2 or 3 thousand feet and proceed to be athletic and on-the-ball.  Even if I made myself do this, I know it would set me up badly for the days to come.

 

Point of this long story for other potential contributors - thank you very much, btw - is that James's boot camp strategy is not at all what we are looking for.

post #27 of 32

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by qcanoe View Post

 


Thanks James.

 

Never mind the fact that I re-executed your search on Travelocity and did not find a price to Steamboat below $368.40 all in.

 

Let's talk about the fact that your proposed itinerary reveals that you must have far more youth and/or stamina than I do. A 6am flight requires getting up no later than 4am. Best case scenario assuming all flights are on time is that you don't even touch down at Hayden until noon local time (which is 2:00 Eastern time). By the time you get off the plane, collect skis (and wits), and schlep a bunch of people to the slopes with all their baggage, get changed, buy tickets, maybe have a bite to eat, etc. you can't tell me that there's realistically a half day of skiing left. Even if you did convince me that this could be done, by the time I've spent ten hours traveling across a continent and gaining 8 or 9 thousand feet of elevation , the last thing I'm going to be prepared to do is hop on a pair of skis and go up ANOTHER 2 or 3 thousand feet and proceed to be athletic and on-the-ball.  Even if I made myself do this, I know it would set me up badly for the days to come.

 

Point of this long story for other potential contributors - thank you very much, btw - is that James's boot camp strategy is not at all what we are looking for.

 

Um, I thought Jamesj had a great suggestion (and quite helpful information).

 

So, what I gather is that you are only interested in few days of skiing on your trip.  If it is too challenging to ski on your 1st day (and I assume the same for your last day), then that only leaves 3 days of skiing during a trip where you pay for 4 nights of lodging.  To each his own

post #28 of 32

I think you can do it in 1 stop through Detroit (from Portland), at least on the outbound.  Price may, or may not, be an issue. In January I got a round trip fare quote of 450/head.  Other dates might be less.

 

Mike

post #29 of 32

Here's my 2cents. I'm generally trying to max out my skiing days coming from opposite direction. So I'm usually flying all night and skiing next day in utah. I will admit, I'm not in the best shape in the world, but it's better than working. Drive to Boston the night before, and stay in cheap hotel. Take the 6:45am Delta flight to SLC which arrives at 10:12am. Use the quickstart program and ski Deer Valley for free.You should be on slopes before lunch. I've caught United flight from LAX and arrived at similar time and have always gotten to slopes before lunch. This assumes the group is self sufficient and have their act together.  The Boston flight is about $100 cheaper than Portland flight which pays for hotel room. Free lift ticket next day pays for rent car for the group. Take Delta 5:05 flight out on Saturday which basically gives you a full day Saturday and you're back in boston at 11:45 that night. Drive straight back to Portland and recover all day sunday. I didn't check whether same scenario could work for Steamboat.  

post #30 of 32
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maui Steve View Post

Drive to Boston the night before, and stay in cheap hotel. Take the 6:45am Delta flight to SLC which arrives at 10:12am. Use the quickstart program and ski Deer Valley for free.You should be on slopes before lunch.

 

Yes, the chance to get an non-stop to SLC might make it worth leaving from BOS. This is a possibility. Thanks.

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