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Look PX18 or Dukes for Line M'ship?

post #1 of 29
Thread Starter 

 Line Mothership 195 skis are on its way and I'm trying to decide between Dukes and Look PX18 bindings.

 

I can honestly say that if the Dukes were the same price as PX18, I wouldnt even think about it, but $170 vs $300 is quite a difference plus I do not want to spend more on the bindings than I spent on my new skis :-).

 

I'm 6'4 205, skiing west, like to go fast and will do zero AT with those skis.Anyway I look at it, Dukes just doesnt make any sense or am I wrong?

 

Also any suggestions on the mounting point from M'ships?

 

Thanks

 

J.

 

 

post #2 of 29

Its nice to have the option of the dukes. if you have the $$ than why not?

post #3 of 29

There is of course the Jester.

post #4 of 29

Big difference between the two bindings.  I believe the PX-18's have 6-8 mm of delta between the toe and the heel piece.  The Dukes will probably work out to zero delta for an alpine boot.  Most alpine bindings are probably going to be in the 4mm range.  I would not recommend buying a Duke without actually skiing one first.  You may find that the zero delta dramatically changes the way the ski behaves and you may not like it.  With my old boot setup, the Dukes put me in the back seat and were borderline unskiable in anything other than deep snow.  I haven't tried them yet with my new setup, but I'm hoping for better.  BTW (Lou Dawson's site claims that Dukes have a 8mm  ramp angle, but he was probably measuring using an AT boot).  Mine measure to zero and I have yet to see anyone with positive ramp on a Duke using an alpine boot.  Here is a thread on TGR discussing the Duke delta issue: http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120776

 

If you don't plan to do AT, there is no reason whatsoever to buy them. You are just exposing yourself to needless headaches and more parts to break (as well as spending considerably more money for the privilege).  That said, other than the delta issues, the binding is very solid (if heavy) and I've had no problems with pre-release on mine.

 

I have PX-12 bindings myself and I like them.  The Look design is rock solid and I've had no problems with pre-releases.  Some folks don't like the Looks because the delta is agressive, so again you might want to ski them.

post #5 of 29
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by geoffda View Post

Big difference between the two bindings.  I believe the PX-18's have 6-8 mm of delta between the toe and the heel piece.  The Dukes will probably work out to zero delta for an alpine boot.  Most alpine bindings are probably going to be in the 4mm range.  I would not recommend buying a Duke without actually skiing one first.  You may find that the zero delta dramatically changes the way the ski behaves and you may not like it.  With my old boot setup, the Dukes put me in the back seat and were borderline unskiable in anything other than deep snow.  I haven't tried them yet with my new setup, but I'm hoping for better.  BTW (Lou Dawson's site claims that Dukes have a 8mm  ramp angle, but he was probably measuring using an AT boot).  Mine measure to zero and I have yet to see anyone with positive ramp on a Duke using an alpine boot.  Here is a thread on TGR discussing the Duke delta issue: http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120776

 

If you don't plan to do AT, there is no reason whatsoever to buy them. You are just exposing yourself to needless headaches and more parts to break (as well as spending considerably more money for the privilege).  That said, other than the delta issues, the binding is very solid (if heavy) and I've had no problems with pre-release on mine.

 

I have PX-12 bindings myself and I like them.  The Look design is rock solid and I've had no problems with pre-releases.  Some folks don't like the Looks because the delta is agressive, so again you might want to ski them.


I do have PX14 XXL on my other two skis, any advantage other than the higher DIN for going with the PX18?

 

J.

post #6 of 29

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by geoffda View Post

If you don't plan to do AT, there is no reason whatsoever to buy them. You are just exposing yourself to needless headaches and more parts to break (as well as spending considerably more money for the privilege).

 

This.

 

Regardless of any other questions about durability, ramp angle, etc, this is the only important point.  If you're not going to do any AT (and you said you won't), don't buy Dukes.  If you like the design, you could consider Jester's as was mentioned above, but Dukes would be a waste of $.

post #7 of 29

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jancouver View Post

 


I do have PX14 XXL on my other two skis, any advantage other than the higher DIN for going with the PX18?

 

J.



 

yeah, the toe and heel piece are both different in construction. both considerably more beefy. there are a pair of px15's, which have the same toe as the px18 and a heel slightly less beefy than the px18 but still beefier than any 12/14 din version on ebay for $150. use live.com's cashback (buy-it-now and paypal) to get an 8% rebate in 60 days. buy them before i hoard more!

 

oh, and DON'T buy regular widebrakes for these. make sure they are the RACE version. they are different. i've always ordered them straight from dynastars "mountain center" in park city, and they are way cheaper that way.

post #8 of 29

going to revise my other post. If you won't do any touring, go with the looks or even try the marker jester or griffon. both great bindings as well

post #9 of 29
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukc View Post

 



 

yeah, the toe and heel piece are both different in construction. both considerably more beefy. there are a pair of px15's, which have the same toe as the px18 and a heel slightly less beefy than the px18 but still beefier than any 12/14 din version on ebay for $150. use live.com's cashback (buy-it-now and paypal) to get an 8% rebate in 60 days. buy them before i hoard more!

 

oh, and DON'T buy regular widebrakes for these. make sure they are the RACE version. they are different. i've always ordered them straight from dynastars "mountain center" in park city, and they are way cheaper that way.


Thanks for the info. Now, my px14 are set to DIN 9, I'm 6'4 probably #210 right now. The PX18 is DIN 10-18. Is that safe to go with the PX 18 and set the DIN to 10 or 11?

 

J.

 

 

post #10 of 29

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jancouver View Post

 


Thanks for the info. Now, my px14 are set to DIN 9, I'm 6'4 probably #210 right now. The PX18 is DIN 10-18. Is that safe to go with the PX 18 and set the DIN to 10 or 11?

 

J.

 

 



 

you ski a din 9? go with the px15's. people will argue, but i, personally, do not ski a binding at the extremes of its din range

post #11 of 29

I just want to make sure that everyone realizes that PX15/18 is a different design from the rest of the Look line.  The toe is an older single pivot design that does not  have vertical release; newer Look toes have it.  PX15/18 is mostly metal and a truly bombproof binding. 

 

In my book, PX14 has enough spring tension for any reasonable skier, and is inherently a safer option, but if you need more tension or worry about pre-releasing on a monster jump, you can always go to PX18. 

post #12 of 29

Just curious- do you have any problems with your PX14?  Why are you looking at PX15/18, which are heavier, more expensive, and (maybe) less safe? 

post #13 of 29

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexzn View Post

I just want to make sure that everyone realizes that PX15/18 is a different design from the rest of the Look line.  The toe is an older single pivot design that does not  have vertical release; newer Look toes have it.  PX15/18 is mostly metal and a truly bombproof binding. 

 

In my book, PX14 has enough spring tension for any reasonable skier, and is inherently a safer option, but if you need more tension or worry about pre-releasing on a monster jump, you can always go to PX18. 


I for one do not want vertical release at the toe. IMO, the PX15 is THE binding out there right now.

Weight is  not a consideration for me. I want bombproof and will be still usable 10 years from now.

 

post #14 of 29
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexzn View Post

Just curious- do you have any problems with your PX14?  Why are you looking at PX15/18, which are heavier, more expensive, and (maybe) less safe? 


The only reason was the breaks. Everywhere I looked, the PX14 comes with 100mm and PX18 is available with 110. If I have to also buy 110mm breaks for PX14, the pricefor bindings+breaks will be pretty much the same as the PX18 with 110mm breaks.

 

J.

 

 

post #15 of 29

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jancouver View Post

 


The only reason was the breaks. Everywhere I looked, the PX14 comes with 100mm and PX18 is available with 110. If I have to also buy 110mm breaks for PX14, the pricefor bindings+breaks will be pretty much the same as the PX18 with 110mm breaks.

 

J.

 

 


That's interesting. The only brakes that I've seen for the PX 15/18 Racing bindings are 80mm, 100mm or 120mm.

post #16 of 29

If you buy the dukes people will think you are hardcore inbounds.

post #17 of 29
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossi Smash View Post

 


That's interesting. The only brakes that I've seen for the PX 15/18 Racing bindings are 80mm, 100mm or 120mm.


Backcountry has them in stock. Last week PX18 was $180....

 

http://www.backcountryoutlet.com/outlet/DYN0217/Look-PX-18-FS-XXL-Alpine-Ski-Binding.html

 

J.

 

post #18 of 29

PX14 XXL comes with 110 or 120 brakes.  Brakes are cheap too.

post #19 of 29

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossi Smash View Post

 


I for one do not want vertical release at the toe.

 

Your knees will thank you

 

IMO, the PX15 is THE binding out there right now.

Weight is  not a consideration for me. I want bombproof and will be still usable 10 years from now.

 

Fits the bill...

 

 

post #20 of 29
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexzn View Post

PX14 XXL comes with 110 or 120 brakes.  Brakes are cheap too.


That is a great news!

 

Please be so kind and provide link or info where I can buy PX14 XXL with 110 breaks.

 

Thanks

 

J.

post #21 of 29

 http://www.backcountryoutlet.com/outlet/DYN0198/Dynastar-PX-14-Racing-XXL-Ski-Binding.html

 

The specs on the web site say 100 mm, but they are wrong.  I have them on my 110mm waist skis and I didn't have to bend the brakes. 

 

Edit:  Just measured mine and they are 120mm.  Enjoy.

post #22 of 29

I have the PX18's on Dyna LP's. Beefy metal bindings and feel super secure but very heavy. To be honest for recreational freeride the DIN range is too high and if I was buying again I'd go for something lighter with lower DIN range. 

post #23 of 29
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobnmillsy View Post

I have the PX18's on Dyna LP's. Beefy metal bindings and feel super secure but very heavy. To be honest for recreational freeride the DIN range is too high and if I was buying again I'd go for something lighter with lower DIN range. 


Yesterday I bought the Rossi version of PX15 from Tramdock. :-)

post #24 of 29

I hope the two of you will be very happy together

post #25 of 29

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jancouver View Post

 


Yesterday I bought the Rossi version of PX15 from Tramdock. :-)



 

sexcellent set-up... i have a pair of px15's and 120mm brakes sitting in my room... i just waited too long to pull the trigger on the skis...

post #26 of 29
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukc View Post

 



 

sexcellent set-up... i have a pair of px15's and 120mm brakes sitting in my room... i just waited too long to pull the trigger on the skis...


Keep you eye on backcountry.com, they still have 4 pairs in stock and once the '10 models are in stock, the rest will be unloaded either through the outlet or tramdock. They may even have another big sale before the summer too.

 

J.

 

post #27 of 29
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexzn View Post

 http://www.backcountryoutlet.com/outlet/DYN0198/Dynastar-PX-14-Racing-XXL-Ski-Binding.html

 

The specs on the web site say 100 mm, but they are wrong.  I have them on my 110mm waist skis and I didn't have to bend the brakes. 

 

Edit:  Just measured mine and they are 120mm.  Enjoy.


Correct. They are 120mm. I picked them of the Tramdock and after multi day delay and another screw up from Backcountry they finally arrived.

 

PS. For whatever reason, every other order from them is either wrong item, wrong color, wrong size, lost, never shipped etc. I guess they just got too busy and cant handle it anymore. Oh well, still one of the best around.....

 

J.

post #28 of 29

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jancouver View Post

 


Correct. They are 120mm. I picked them of the Tramdock and after multi day delay and another screw up from Backcountry they finally arrived.

 

PS. For whatever reason, every other order from them is either wrong item, wrong color, wrong size, lost, never shipped etc. I guess they just got too busy and cant handle it anymore. Oh well, still one of the best around.....

 

J.



 

every screw up they've ever made with ME (and i've done a LOOOT of business with them) has been in MY favor... double shipment of skis? sweet! but i like 'em so much i want 'em to stay in business, so i sent the extra skis back...

post #29 of 29

I am not sure if you bought your Binding yet?

 

I would Say PX15 is a no brainer.

This is from Moment Ski's.  Good guys, buy from them

 

FS: LOOK PX15 w/ XL or XXL Brakes / Brand New

I have several pairs left.


$165 shipping included if in continental USA.

Can ship to other regions. Pricing may vary.

Thanks.
 
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