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opinion of powder novices at esa big sky - Page 2

post #31 of 49

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trekchick View Post

.

 

 As usual, Cgeib and Bob Barnes (not novices) skied on some freakishly skinny skis.

 

 

Edit: my post is redundant after Bob's account of skis and the fun factor

 

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Barnes View Post

Well, TC--I wouldn't call 77mm "freakishly skinny," but they certainly were narrower than what a lot of people skied on up there.

 

Cgeib will speak for himself, but I believe he spent most of the week on an 84mm Nordica Hot Rod, with at least one day on a 74mm version of the same.

 

Best regards,

Bob


This may come as a surprise to you but, I really wasn't paying attention to what you were skiing on(I thought you were on the Pulse), but giving you a bit of crap makes me grin! 

 

 

post #32 of 49

Unfortunately, I was not at Big Sky to enjoy the fabulous snow.   I have skied my Nordica Olympia Victory's (74 underfoot) from everything from hardpack groomers to deep powder and have never wished for something fatter. I do have some fatter skis which I pull out from time to time but the Victorys do well in everything.  I like having one ski that I can rely on. 

 

 

post #33 of 49

I had the pleasure of skiing with Weems and being in powder was an amazing experience. As he said, we had just 4-7 in. of powder on top of some groomed runs and that felt like heaven...it's such a bizarre feeling to glance down (I didn't look down for long Weems, I promise! ) and see your skis periodically disappear under the soft blanket of powder...crazy feeling.

 

On the other hand, because I needed to leave early (on Tuesday) I convinced nolo to take me on some deeper runs so that I could have that experience and I really struggled to stay up a bunch of times. Particularly in flatter areas, when I would try to turn without speed, I'd get caught and eat it. That said, I'm definitely a novice and at least the falls don't hurt at all.

 

So, as with everyone else, I'll happily chase more powder in the future, but as Weems told me and Jack Nicholson told him (seriously - Weems skied with Jack Nicholson...only Weems...)

 

"Powder...you just can't trust it."

post #34 of 49

Thanks folks. Interesting feedback to my question. In 40 years I've never experienced anything near fat skis in deep snow. I'm basically a two ski quiver guy, 67mm waist current skis and even skinnier old/rock skis. Skiing mostly in the mid-Atlantic, my deep powder days happen about once a decade. I guess I'll have to rent something fatter next chance, but I'm not sure I'd want to mess up a rare powder day with the learning curve? It's reassuring to hear folks are still having fun in deep snow on relatively narrow skis.

BTW, did the Nicholson skiing/sighting occur this trip or years ago?

post #35 of 49

Jim, what's your boot sole length?  May have a pair of not-so-fat but still wide skis you can try sometime.  They will make powder more fun and easier with little to no learning curve. 

post #36 of 49

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcusFire View Post

I could never ski powder well and hated it. Weems taught us two important techniques that opened the door for me.

 

First was how to stop in powder up to my knees. That was a confidence-builder. Then he explained about standing up straight & tall (but still focused across the skis and down the hill, of course) in-between the turns. That was very stabilizing and reduced the leg fatigue considerably. It also works well on a nasty, uneven traverse.

 

What was the stopping technique?

I for one, rediscovered the face plant, the deep face plant, and the body plant.

 

The face plant:

Pretty basic, works wonders in powder.  Mine tended to be slow motion when I initiated body downhill faster then skis would come around. Also had a few outside ski crossed under inside ski leading to toppling by powder - kind of like Gulliver being toppled by the Lilliputians and their miniature (to Gulliver) ropes.  Actually had one exceptionally slow motion recovery from a crossed under ski while the whole shebang drifted downhill.  Didn't plant in that instance.

 

The deep face plant:

Similar to above but usually employed at higher speed. The world goes from a light shade of gray all the way to black depending on depth. Requires extensive goggle and helmet cleaning.  Watch for people with snow embedded in their helmet vent holes - usually a sign it's occurred.

Make sure to close your mouth before contact with the snow. That way you'll maintain the ability to breathe. Kept forgetting that one.

 

The body plant:

Not recommended to attempt. Usually only achieved after huge air with incompetent landing. Requires extensive searching for gear - usually skis because no one is watching them, they're watching you in disbelief.  Also extensive powder cleaning from googles, helmet, clothes, boots. Causes momentary heart stoppage in coaches - so make sure that's not an issue. Carry aspirin? (Note: nitroglycerin tablets not recommended - may explode!)

Discovered that massage works wonders to counteract the effects of body planting. (thanks Kate!)

 

post #37 of 49

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post

 

What was the stopping technique?

I for one, rediscovered the face plant, the deep face plant, and the body plant.

 

The face plant:

Pretty basic, works wonders in powder.  Mine tended to be slow motion when I initiated body downhill faster then skis would come around. Also had a few outside ski crossed under inside ski leading to toppling by powder - kind of like Gulliver being toppled by the Lilliputians and their miniature (to Gulliver) ropes.  Actually had one exceptionally slow motion recovery from a crossed under ski while the whole shebang drifted downhill.  Didn't plant in that instance.

 

The deep face plant:

Similar to above but usually employed at higher speed. The world goes from a light shade of gray all the way to black depending on depth. Requires extensive goggle and helmet cleaning.  Watch for people with snow embedded in their helmet vent holes - usually a sign it's occurred.

Make sure to close your mouth before contact with the snow. That way you'll maintain the ability to breathe. Kept forgetting that one.

 

The body plant:

Not recommended to attempt. Usually only achieved after huge air with incompetent landing. Requires extensive searching for gear - usually skis because no one is watching them, they're watching you in disbelief.  Also extensive powder cleaning from googles, helmet, clothes, boots. Causes momentary heart stoppage in coaches - so make sure that's not an issue. Carry aspirin? (Note: nitroglycerin tablets not recommended - may explode!)

Discovered that massage works wonders to counteract the effects of body planting. (thanks Kate!)

 


I thought you weren't ever supposed to stop... I learned that to slow down make a longer turn and head up the slope.  I had afirst hand experience with a face plant almost deep face plant a couple of times - one on the lone star bowl first time down.  The second was at the bottom,  Skiis Kinda went over head and I was in a downward split.  People at the bottom said all the sudden I was up and then I was down and all they could see was the pink bottoms of the skiis.  The third time was down this ungroomer on the back side with deep mashed potato type snow and I did a deep faceplant, lost a ski and pole the binding was sticking up so thankfully I found it, plus I had to dig myself out so I could get my leg out.
 

 

Oh Tog, the escape clause of the diamond I think happens when you fall down, laugh and then try to get up. 

post #38 of 49

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesj View Post

 

BTW, did the Nicholson skiing/sighting occur this trip or years ago?

 

I think years ago - Weems - when was it? Details please

post #39 of 49

Nicholson who?

 

post #40 of 49

Actually, it was many years ago.  I was skiing with a friend of his, and this friend invited him to join us for a few runs. 

 

He was quite a nice guy.

post #41 of 49

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post

 

What was the stopping technique?

I for one, rediscovered the face plant, the deep face plant, and the body plant.

 

The face plant:

Pretty basic, works wonders in powder.  Mine tended to be slow motion when I initiated body downhill faster then skis would come around. Also had a few outside ski crossed under inside ski leading to toppling by powder - kind of like Gulliver being toppled by the Lilliputians and their miniature (to Gulliver) ropes.  Actually had one exceptionally slow motion recovery from a crossed under ski while the whole shebang drifted downhill.  Didn't plant in that instance.

 

The deep face plant:

Similar to above but usually employed at higher speed. The world goes from a light shade of gray all the way to black depending on depth. Requires extensive goggle and helmet cleaning.  Watch for people with snow embedded in their helmet vent holes - usually a sign it's occurred.

Make sure to close your mouth before contact with the snow. That way you'll maintain the ability to breathe. Kept forgetting that one.

 

The body plant:

Not recommended to attempt. Usually only achieved after huge air with incompetent landing. Requires extensive searching for gear - usually skis because no one is watching them, they're watching you in disbelief.  Also extensive powder cleaning from googles, helmet, clothes, boots. Causes momentary heart stoppage in coaches - so make sure that's not an issue. Carry aspirin? (Note: nitroglycerin tablets not recommended - may explode!)

Discovered that massage works wonders to counteract the effects of body planting. (thanks Kate!)

 

James I think I did all three of these

 

Oh yea you are right about the massage.definitley reccomend after a hard day of planting face into mountain!!!  

 

post #42 of 49

TOG - Great post!    

 

For all you intermediate skiers reading this:

 

Stand up tall (but still looking/feeling/moving down the fall line, just like you're learing to do on the groomers) between turns. As you feel yourself coming around (be patient . . . seriously, this is key) drop you center of gravity and feel the skis turn uphill. This will slow you down (comfortably) or even stop you if you desire. Let this build your confidence, then try linking some turns. This practice changed my perception of powder.

 

Thanks Weems!

post #43 of 49

 I'm curious, did anyone actually use powder skis in the powder?

post #44 of 49

Powder skis?  We don't need no stinkin' powder skis!

 

post #45 of 49

There was one person I know of who was on a rockered K2, Sheena's husband(tromano) was not in the clinic but was on a rockered ski(Praxis?), other than than most folks were on mid fats or fats, with a few narrowish skis in the mix.

 

 

post #46 of 49

Quote:

Originally Posted by spindrift View Post

 I'm curious, did anyone actually use powder skis in the powder?

 

 

Yes. Sort of. Not Pontoons or Fattypus Alotta's, but:

 

 -Blizzard Argos in 187cm, like 102mmwaist - (amazingly boring ski, though decent for 'landing' air). Squatty was often on that in the 179ish length. One day on that was enough. Phil wasn't around when I picked it out after finally growing tired of listening to the guy at the store and a limited choice that day.

 

Then, courtesy of Lou :

-Head Jimi (as in Hendrix), next year's , I think it was about 105mm with fair amount of taper and slightly rockered tip/tail, 179cm I believe or was it longer? Pretty ski. Lou hated it at first, he changed the binding position, not sure if he ever liked it. I skied it for at least half a day. Was fun but not particularly memorable. Did give confidence at speed going into suncrusted cut up powder.

 

- next year's Stockli rotor 106, 177cm , 106mm waist, felt like a short 160cm something length. We did a fair amount of binding position playing with that one, it was way too centered at first - felt like you'd just do 360's all day in the powder with just a little input.  Got better as we moved bindings back, but still too short for my liking. Very good looking ski though - squared tips.

 

- not sure this counts, but  Scott Crusade, next years. 179cm, roughly 94mm waist, lot's, and I mean lot's of sidecut - big tips and tails. (not like that Icelandic ski though). Probably spent the most time on that one, just because. Started off with it because I liked it's grey plaid looks. (Really needs a white binding on it though) Did I mention it was good looking? Really that's all I cared about at first - I know, call me shallow.

 

Don't like the tips on Scott's - that extended profile thing, just don't like the delayed feel or lack of bite from it. Yes, we were skiing powder. I'll admit that maybe I'm still traumatized from last year on Lone Peak when I switched with Lou and tried his Scott ski on the way down and despised it.

Actually, this ski was very good on groomers - packed powder, because of the sidecut.  Overall though, too light feeling, too twitchy for me. Lighter skiers may like it a lot more.  Initial day though, after skiing it for a couple of runs I was desperate for something in the 190cm range with minimal sidecut.  I haven't wanted a 190 in years. 

 

Overall though, I'd trade all those skis for the Stockli VXL. Had a fairly beefy Vist plate on it, 179cm, 88mm waist. A heavy ski.  Not a lot of sidecut, but could still carve very well on the groomers.  Damp but very  responsive with a good feel. I kept trying to get Lou to take the Scott's back so I could ski on that one. "Lou, this Scott is great! Look how good looking it is, it matches your jacket!"

 

The ski is more like say M. Ali  to the Scott Crusade's feel of 'some light weight boxer on crystal meth'  The first ski I've tried in awhile I was immediately impressed by and would of bought right away.  Going back to the lifts I used to seek out the cruddy snow just to go through it. The Scott was not comfortable in those conditions. Did I say it was heavy?

 

Let's see, trekchick was on some she Goats courtesy of Rio, habacomike was on the Mantras, Philpug was almost always on his K2 PBR's. Pabst Blue Ribbon - label right on the back of the skis. (I always thought they were kidding about that ski) That's pretty wide, has a slight rocker I think - 10-20 ? Nice flex.  Looked like a good ski, couldn't pry it out off Phil's feet though.

Then Tromano, not in esa, had Praxis powders sometimes and Scott P4's on other days. Not sure what his wife was on though I know they talked about if they won the K2 raffle skis they'd be Hellbents.

 

post #47 of 49
Quote:

The ski is more like say M. Ali  to the Scott Crusade's feel of 'some light weight boxer on crystal meth'

 

...and Weems thought my metaphors were bad! (Well, technically, yours is a simile, but it still holds)

 

 

Good ski review, Tog! And I take it all back. I guess some fat skis are useful, after all. At least if you like plaid.

 

Best regards,

Bob

post #48 of 49

 Now you're insulting my new ski suit!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Barnes View Post

I guess some fat skis are useful, after all. At least if you like plaid.

 

 



 

post #49 of 49

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by spindrift View Post

 I'm curious, did anyone actually use powder skis in the powder?


Spin drift I tried using some fatter skiis but I went back to my AC 3's just felt more comfortable on them when I was upright LOL
 

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