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Inside Ski Problem

post #1 of 9
Thread Starter 
My problem is flaping inside ski.

I'm 80kg 173cm skier, using a year old Atomic Beta Carv 9.20. It's a special model made for InterSport dealers (at least here in Finland) and it's based on the same years model of Beta Carv 9.18 (titanium added).

The problem appears when I'm skiing in sticky&grippy conditions on somewhat soft snow. The problem gets even worse when I'm on loose&wet&soft snow with snow piles all over the place. My weight distribution, in previous conditions, is something like 5%/95% (inside/outside ski). If I try to put more weight on inside ski, and thus eliminate flaping, it carves and bites way too much. Kinda throwing me out of control. I'm also affraid of loosing grip from inside ski's outer edge, which would kick the outside ski of the snow and make me fall down.

On icy or hard snow conditions I have no such problems. My weight distribution is more balanced, outside ski still dominates. I can carve turns with different radius and speed, without any problems, no matter how steep the hill is.

If you know a solution to this problem, please help me!

I would like to be as confident on those problem conditions (for me at least) as I am on icy conditions.

Thank you for your answers!

-Explorer<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by Explorer (edited April 12, 2001).]</FONT>
post #2 of 9
Explorer- Interesting! Ice is usually a good test of skill but you handle that fine and the heavy stuff gives you some trouble. From your description I have a thought or two. You talked about weight from ski to ski which makes me think how are you weighting the inside ski? If your moving to that ski to weight it you maybe leaning up the hill which could cause the inside ski to catch and cause you to loose the outside ski as you described. In skiing in those conditions think more about pressure and activity of the inside ski. Balance needs to still be directed to the outside ski so most of the pressure ends up there. Like riding a bike as you turn a corner you direct you body to the inside but presure builds against the tire. Actively tip and steer the inside leg but you don't need to try and put weight on it that may cause it to catch and make you fall. In those conditions I try to allow myself a little closer stance so they are less likely to get pulled around. I also try to be very active with the inside 1/2 of the body through the whole turn allowing it to lead throu out. The ankle joint needs to be active to help control the fore/aft balance issue faced in skiing variable snow conditions. Do not turn the ski's as far across the hill so the piles don't block you from your new turn entry. Very active bending and unbending of the legs to manage the changes in pressure. More tipping of the ski and less twisting as it is difficult to twist when your ski's are IN the snow and not on it. Alot of skier think there can carve turns on groomed but on groomed you can get a false sense of reality, Ungroomed it is imperitive you can carve your turns because the snow will not let you CHEAT. Good luck! Todo
post #3 of 9
Todo, I'm not sure if I understand you about the inside half of the body leading through the whole turn. If you are turning left does this mean that the left hip and shoulder are leading (countered)?

When you are in crud do you adopt a more evenly weighted stance at the end of the turn, have a short period of float with tipping and steering and then start slowly pressuring the downhill ski?
post #4 of 9
Lucky- Yes the left hip and shoulder and arm would lead going left and vice/versa to the right. That is what I was intending to mean by the inside 1/2 of the body leading throu out the turn. I don't really think of that as countering. The definition of counter is to twist one thing against another. Counter is a weak position. The more you twist the lower body against a stable upperbody the harder it is to keep the ski edged. That's why counter is so important in short turns where you want to have a quick release the new direction but with today's ski's it is much less needed as the ski does so much of the turn for us with sidecut. So we can counter less and stay in a more skellatal alligned strong dynamic stance.

As for weight I try not to talk or think about weight as I weigh 185 all the time I think about more equal pressure directed to both skis as apposed to on ice or groomed more pressure directed to the outside ski. Some of the why is because in ungroomed or crud snow I don't direct my body as far inside the turn there for not as much pressure builds to the outside! So the more even pressure on both ski's is more a result of me not moving as far inside rather than an effort on my part to keep it that way. Some other cause because in ungroomed snow I don't tend to complete the turn as much less pressure also builds up against the outside ski. I hope this made sense.
post #5 of 9
Explorer, if your inside ski shovel flaps in heavier conditions, you may be moving too much sideways into a turn without sufficient movement forward into the turn at the same time. The result may be that your weight, especially what weight you're applying to the inside ski, is a bit back. Are you maintaining shin-bootcuff contact with the inside foot? I prefer to ski heavier stuff (as seldom as possible!!!) with generally more equal weighting, say 60/40 as the greatest amount of differential, and really focus on passing through 50/50 pressuring at the transition point between turns.
post #6 of 9
Thread Starter 
Thanks all from your posts!

Here's more information about my technique.

When I'm on the ice, I like to do a sort of 'tightening' turn. That is, I add pressure to both skis constantly (outside little more than inside) all the way through the turn. I do this basicly by straightening both my legs and leaning more into the turn (almost riping my pants off ). This makes the skis shooooot out from the turn (and me happy) to the another turn. At the end of the turn (G's decreasing), I do have quite evenly weighted stance, then short period of float before I start slowly pressuring the downhill ski for another turn. Just like Lucky described.

But when I try to do that on softer conditions, disaster happens. At some point when I'm adding pressure, inside ski bites (shooting uphill), and I end up doing a 360 on the outside ski, hoping not to crash.

On ice my upper body is stable/solid and in control. On the soft stuff, it's not. For some reason my arms tend to flail around. Inside arm goes back and outside arm goes front, like I was trying to make a pole plant and scratching my arse at the same time :-D

Hard snow piles or small icy bumps are not a problem, but when I counter a soft one I'm in trouble.

On hard stuff I have a feeling of standing on a solid ground and that I can put pressure against it. But on the soft stuff, I feel like there's no resistance what so ever. Like walking on water, I just sink through it. Maybe that's because I usually ski in icy or hard snow conditions, don't know.

I usually stand on the center of the ski, but during the turn I tend to pressure front of the ski more and more (still "drawing" nice arches).

Thanks for your advice!
I have to try them next time, that is next Sunday (15th of April).
Last week of skiing coming up (this season), sniff.

post #7 of 9
Todo, Makes perfect sense, thanks.
post #8 of 9

The problem may be the way you "lean into the turn". One major reason for the inside hooking up too much is if you "bank" into the turn. Your whole body should lot be "leaned" into the turn. Your upper body should remain upright, and angles created at the hips. Doing this will allow you to more easily control the pressure between the skis. If you lean into the turn with your upper body (a.k.a banking), you will end up with too much pressure on the inside ski, and it will hook on you, and your outside ski (the one you want to be skiing on) will run away from you, and your weight will fall back. Another (and somewhat related) reason for this, is if you move too far laterally (sideways) into the turn. As you cross your center of mass (CM) over the skis to get from (for example) the left edges to the right edges, you need to move your mass forward as much as you do laterally (sideways). If you just dive sideways into the new turn, you'll end up banked, and on the wrong foot. Plus, since you didn't move forward enough, you haven't kept up with the skis, and end up in the back seat.
post #9 of 9
Thread Starter 
All right, problem solved. Just came back from the skiing trip.

My friend videotaped me on ice and on softer snow. And what I saw (on tape) was really ugly, just believe me. On ice, everything was like it should be. BUT, on softer stuff I was doing exactly like JohnH (thanks) assumed/described. I was 'banking' with my whole body WITH a huge lateral movement, making me somewhat unstable :-D

When I realised/saw the way I was skiing, the problem was solved instantly. Actually I can't understand how I ever could ski that way and why my technique was so much better on ice.

After first video session, we made another. Analyzed tapes. And for some reason, even in icy conditions my technigue had improved (more relaxed, flowing, softer technique).

Thanks all for your advice!
I really needed them.

New problem. I need new skis. Bent the old ones pretty bad. On last day, I decided to really go for it. DH till speed was +90kph, long arches on a hard and bumpy(height only about 40cm) snow. And that was it.

Well, it's only money

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