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Volkl Sumos & Gotomas

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 

I just bought a pair of 175 Sumos with a set of Marker Dukes to use in my backcountry outings this spring.  I also got an older pair (black) of 176 Gotomas unmounted, with 1 set of holes.  Both skis are in great condition and I got both set ups for $425.  I also bought a pair of Hammerhead tele bindings for the Gotomas on a pro deal.  This is my third pair of Gotomas this year, I got a new pair 176 that I mounted with a pair of Salomon Ti 12 bindings that was my everyday ski this year and a pair of used (white) 168 that I put an old pair of O2 tele bindings on.  Both of these setups rip, but I found the 168s a bit short, hence the Black 176 purchace.  I haven't had a chance to ski the new boards yet and was wondering if anyone has some info on the Sumos.  I have never skied something that fat 125 underfoot.  I think they will be really fun.  Also what are the differences between my three Gotomas.  I'm getting the Hammerheads mounted today and will be skiing on them this Friday.  Not sure when I'll be out on the Sumos.  Thanks for the info. 

post #2 of 19

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tetonpwdrjunkie View Post

Also what are the differences between my three Gotomas.

 

Gotama.  As in Siddhattha Gotama, supreme Buddha.  Anything -oma suggests of a cancer of some sort.

 

Also, not enough information provided.

 

Besides, go here and you should be able to figure it out for yourself:

 

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152720

 

TGR is probably a better reference for skis like the Sumo as well.  They seem to specialize in powder boards, fat Twips, and AT setups.

 


Edited by DtEW - 4/1/2009 at 05:22 pm
post #3 of 19

What he said, plus try a search here, many many many threads/posts on the various Goats. If your new pair are the old black with white outline Buddha, TGR thinks they're the best ever made. Goats have gradually gotten stiffer since.  

post #4 of 19
Thread Starter 

I did look on TGR and ran a search here.  I also did a general google search.  Not much good info out there.  I should get my life back soon and then I will find out for myself for real.  I was wondering if any one here had actually skied the Sumo. 

post #5 of 19

Those are popular boards out west.

 

The Sumo is a designate powder ski, wide and a bit soft.

 

The first Gotama, black with the white outline Budha like the Explosive of that era, was the only model made in Germany. It was wood core with two layers of titanol, and quite stiff (disagree beyond) and straightish sidecut. Then a series of Chinese Goats with wood and fiberglass only, softer. They may have varied the flex along the way with these lesser Goats, but most agree they don't have the stuff for conditions that the early model handled with ease. (so, the black is a totally different ski than all the others)

 

Congrats on the early Goats; they are a classic.

 

later qualification: the skis I saw on the chair were black, abrupt tail turn-up, large font red and silver asian style script on black top sheet, no budha in front of the boot. First year model? second? not sure. Shops always used to have a ski cut through in section so a consumer could see what they were buying. I like that idea still.


Edited by davluri - 4/9/2009 at 06:35 pm GMT
post #6 of 19
Thread Starter 

I really like the black goats with the hammerhead binding.  The extra 8 cm is just what I was looking for in my tele setup.  I'm thinking about skill sawing the tail off though.  I haven't tried the Sumos yet. 

post #7 of 19

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

 The first Gotama, black with the white outline Budha like the Explosive of that era, was the only model made in Germany. It was wood core with two layers of titanol, and quite stiff (disagree beyond) and straightish sidecut. Then a series of Chinese Goats with wood and fiberglass only, softer. They may have varied the flex along the way with these lesser Goats, but most agree they don't have the stuff for conditions that the early model handled with ease. (so, the black is a totally different ski than all the others)

 

Congrats on the early Goats; they are a classic.

 

Ummm... my 1st gen goats do not have 2 layers of titanol (no metal at all), do have wood sidewalls and were made in Germany. 130-105-122. The straightest of all years, afaik. I have not skied any other goats so I have no idea if they are stiffer, softer, or whatever. They're goats.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tetonpwdrjunkie View Post

 

I really like the black goats with the hammerhead binding.  The extra 8 cm is just what I was looking for in my tele setup.  I'm thinking about skill sawing the tail off though.  

 

The very last thing you ever want to do is saw any ski. If you're a mountaineer who needs straight tails you're an idiot for buying these anyway. Buy a flat tail (aka Coomba) 

post #8 of 19

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by samurai View Post

 

 

 

Ummm... my 1st gen goats do not have 2 layers of titanol (no metal at all), do have wood sidewalls and were made in Germany. 130-105-122. The straightest of all years, afaik. I have not skied any other goats so I have no idea if they are stiffer, softer, or whatever. They're goats.

 


 

 

They are considerably softer than all versions from 06/07 on, almost an entirely different ski. Plus the newer models have a slightly wider tip. The first Goats were meant to be powder only skis at that time whereas todays are more all mountain orientated.

post #9 of 19
Thread Starter 

The black goats seem a bit less stable at speed than this years.  This is not really related to the differences in the bindings.  I can really feel it when making carved parallel turns on the groomers.  The black goats can flutter a bit at high speed.  This years goat doesn't. 

post #10 of 19

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by samurai View Post

 

 

Ummm... my 1st gen goats do not have 2 layers of titanol (no metal at all), do have wood sidewalls and were made in Germany. 130-105-122. The straightest of all years, afaik. I have not skied any other goats so I have no idea if they are stiffer, softer, or whatever. They're goats.

 

 

 

The very last thing you ever want to do is saw any ski. If you're a mountaineer who needs straight tails you're an idiot for buying these anyway. Buy a flat tail (aka Coomba) 


Just a comment: Several guys over at TGR have done just this, saw off the tails of various skis, a whole thread about how to do it, what epoxy to use for a seal, whether to rivet them afterwards, even which models have plastic tails, and how far the plastic goes, so no penetration into the core. They honestly don't appear to be idiots. Serious gearheads who have good tool shops, maybe...

post #11 of 19
Thread Starter 

Thank you...  I am a bit of an epoxy head and I know what I like.  I don't like the tails that don't serve any purpose and don't fit into the gondola ski holder worth crap.  I also didn't spend much money ($50) on the boards.  I think the biggest problem will be to keep the tail from delaming during the cut.  Probably getting the right fine toothed blade and running the saw at the right speed will be the answer.  I probably won't do it at all and not until after the spring skiing season at any rate.  I have access to plenty of old skis to use for practice cuts.  If I had wanted to pay for Coombas I guess I could have done that if I wasn't such an idiot. 

post #12 of 19

I know the Explosiv construction and looked at Goats at the time, but Samurai's guessing  had me second guessing.

 

Rode the chair the other day with a guy riding the first Goats and because he  scrapes his tips over each other a lot while skiing, you could easily see the sandwich in the abraded area, and clearly, there was a shiny metal layer exposed and visible all around the tip toward the body of the ski. Like anyone drilling their own bindings can see the shavings come up with the drill bit and feel the resistance going in. Concrete information, not speculation of salespersons or skiers.

 

The Goats became a totally different ski after this model year; the ski became more powder oriented, less all mountain/all snow, and much more chinese.


Edited by davluri - 4/9/2009 at 06:46 pm GMT
post #13 of 19

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post


Just a comment: Several guys over at TGR have done just this, saw off the tails of various skis, a whole thread about how to do it, what epoxy to use for a seal, whether to rivet them afterwards, even which models have plastic tails, and how far the plastic goes, so no penetration into the core. They honestly don't appear to be idiots. Serious gearheads who have good tool shops, maybe...


I'm aware of the thread, and the trend. When I first got them I was wondering WTF volkl was thinking, actually. That was five years ago though. The tails have never bothered me while skiing. Only gondolas, and sticking them in the snow, like any twin. I think it would be a huge mistake to cut them as I can't see any bonus aside from gondola loading... which is kinda funny because goats are tiny by today's standards. I appreciate that tail waaaaayy more than I curse it. I truly think that ski would suck without it. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tetonpwdrjunkie View Post

Thank you...  I am a bit of an epoxy head and I know what I like.  I don't like the tails that don't serve any purpose and don't fit into the gondola ski holder worth crap.  I also didn't spend much money ($50) on the boards.  I think the biggest problem will be to keep the tail from delaming during the cut.  Probably getting the right fine toothed blade and running the saw at the right speed will be the answer.  I probably won't do it at all and not until after the spring skiing season at any rate.  I have access to plenty of old skis to use for practice cuts.  If I had wanted to pay for Coombas I guess I could have done that if I wasn't such an idiot. 

I wasn't trying to insult you, just trying to get to the point. No, you can't buy coombas for 50 bucks. (didn't know that was your budget, sorry.) But you can find heeps of fatter skis with flat tails for very reasonable prices. Find mntlion, for instance. Atomic DeePowders, and several Explosives on page 2. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

What a load of horsesh@#, IMO. I know the Explosiv construction and looked at Goats at the time, but Samurai's guessing  had me second guessing.

 

Rode the chair the other day with a guy riding the first Goats and because he  scrapes his tips over each other a lot while skiing, you could easily see the sandwich in the abraded area, and clearly, there was a shiny metal layer exposed and visible all around the tip toward the body of the ski. Like anyone drilling their own bindings can see the shavings come up with the drill bit and feel the resistance going in. Concrete information, not speculation of salespersons or skiers.

 

The Goats became a totally different ski after this model year; the ski became more powder oriented, less all mountain/all snow, and much more chinese.

 

Here are my tips which always ski on the same foot and have 5 years of tip-banging damage without a visible hint of metal:

 

 

And a closer look at my sidewall- I chose the largest chip in my topsheet to try in all my effort to find some metal, but couldn't do it. That chip exposes about 1cm of fiberglass over wood.

 

These were also drilled by me. And when I mounted them I was coming off of my G4s and pissed that no metal came out the ski up the bit. Back then, I thought "Got A Ma's" were clown-shoe experiments. They were given to me as a warranty replacement because volkl actually lost my G4s that were sent back and didn't have any G4s in stock. It wasn't until I learned to ski them that I liked them, fwiw. 

 

Metal layers often don't go to the sidewall, however, depending on various manufacturers. IIRC, it wasn't until later that Volkl added metal underfoot to the goats. 

 

Here is the TGR thread comparing the years. They talk metal a bit.

 

I'm not trying to throw a fork in your wheel, guys. Just trying to share what I know. 


Edited by samurai - 4/9/2009 at 11:12 am GMT
post #14 of 19

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

The Goats became a totally different ski after this model year; the ski became more powder oriented, less all mountain/all snow, and much more chinese.


Have you skied the 2010 ski? It doesn't feel much more powder oriented to me. Also, more Chinese? What does that mean. The construction quality seemed much nicer than on last year's gold Gotamas, and while I'm still skiing my German-made Goats, I wouldn't say that they are the pinnacle of awesome craftsmanship.

post #15 of 19

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post

 


Have you skied the 2010 ski? It doesn't feel much more powder oriented to me. Also, more Chinese? What does that mean. The construction quality seemed much nicer than on last year's gold Gotamas, and while I'm still skiing my German-made Goats, I wouldn't say that they are the pinnacle of awesome craftsmanship.

 

Read the TGR link I posted above. 

post #16 of 19

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

 

Rode the chair the other day with a guy riding the first Goats...

 

The Goats became a totally different ski after this model year; the ski became more powder oriented, less all mountain/all snow, and much more chinese.

 

"Much more chinese."

 

Well, at least he's given up the subterfuge in terms of the national/racial focus of his posts.

 

Contrary to your imagination, the general consensus both here and at TGR is that the Goats have gotten stiffer and more versatile (and perhaps somewhat less powder-oriented) over the years.

 

http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/49504/this-years-gotama-vs-last-years-gotama

 

http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/51357/08-volkl-gotama-stiffer

 

http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/71921/09-gotama-any-changes

 

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152720

 

(Gotamas are so incredibly popular that there are many more threads on both forums by various posters that attest to the same observation.)

 

And those that have had multiple Gotamas note that the first ones (03/04) were quite soft, and had sidewall problems, and now in hindsight are ones to avoid.  Perhaps the solution of those issues in the subsequent years were what you meant by "much more chinese". 

post #17 of 19

Lots of folks sawed off the early Nordica Blower tail (abrupt upturn like early Gotama) as it affected the turn. I'm sure they seal the cut with epoxy, and keep doing so as needed for wear and tear. (One of the sawn pairs was on the feet of very well-known and very experienced skier, FWIW?) As the skis are not expected to carry re-sale value forever, I would think you could do whatever you want to them. What have you got to lose if they are not working for you as they were made?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tetonpwdrjunkie View Post

I really like the black goats with the hammerhead binding.  The extra 8 cm is just what I was looking for in my tele setup.  I'm thinking about skill sawing the tail off though.  I haven't tried the Sumos yet. 



 

post #18 of 19

 no subterfuge there. I hate companies moving their operations to China for a number of rational reasons. Always have and been pretty damn clear and obvious about it. Nothing racial about it, please refrain from personal assaults when you don't know what the f you're talking about. I didn't attack any one or any country or people. you just did and it sucks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DtEW View Post

 

 

"Much more chinese."

 

Well, at least he's given up the subterfuge in terms of the national/racial focus of his posts.

 



 

post #19 of 19

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

 no subterfuge there. I hate companies moving their operations to China for a number of rational reasons. Always have and been pretty damn clear and obvious about it. Nothing racial about it, please refrain from personal assaults when you don't know what the f you're talking about. I didn't attack any one or any country or people. you just did and it sucks.


All it takes is a quick perusal of your posting history for people to see that none of your "rational reasons" were rational, much less fact-based.  Just about everything you have tried to characterize as trends (i.e. construction quality, wholesale changes to the character of the skis, etc.) have been either demonstrably false or shown to be less applicable to China than what can be said about many other places-of-manufacture, including Europe.

 

When many of your posts show a particular trend of asserting untruths against a particular target...  well, you know what they say about things with a number of duck-like characteristics.

 

You might be to surprised to learn that I too have a number of reasons why I would personally prefer European-made skis.  However, I wouldn't characterize any of them as more than romantic.  Trying to pass them off as "rational reasons" by couching them in non-existent trends would be nothing more than self-delusion, or worse: subterfuge to an end.

 

And I have zero qualms about fighting lies by revealing the liar.


Edited by DtEW - 4/9/2009 at 07:31 pm GMT
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