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Should a quiver be broad or deep?

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 

In the Gear Review thread on Watea 101's, Holiday brought up an interesting point about how he prefers both a 94 and a 100 Watea, depending. This got me to think about overlap (we tend to warn against) or spread (desirable). Not how the folks over at TGR think about it, they routinely talk about owning 4 or 5 skis over 100 mm. Could they actually be right? 

 

Now I always assume, like most here, that minimum basic quiver is a 70 something frontside carver and a 105 and up backside powder ski. But when I was in Telluride last month, found myself really milking one ski I had (my 88 mm) but wishing for another just a little lighter and softer I didn't have (something in the high 90's to low 100's) for a couple of the 7 days. What I did have as a second ski, a rockered 112 mm, was fun, but basically wasted in the max 6-8" of fresh we had to work with even after hiking. OTOH back in NE, I ski a 66 waist 85 to 90% of the time. Fact, I know guys in the NE who think a two ski quiver should be a 66 mm WC and a 79 mm all mountain.

 

So I'm proposing that the whole idea of a "quiver" doesn't reflect what most skiing is like most days we ski. Maybe we should be thinking about several skis in the range we mostly use to ski (say 85 to 100, or 70 to 85, or 100-115) that differ in flex or sidecut or weight, so that they'll really fit conditions we ski in. And lose the assumption about spreading to cover all possible niches for all possible snow conditions...Or the endless arguments about whether narrow skis or fats are better for everything. 

 

 

post #2 of 11

<devilsadvocate>

 

Yet one more option would be to rock the heck out of one pair of skis.

 

As with a samurai and his katana, utter devotion allows you fully explore and exploit the fine points of one instrument.

 

</devilsadvocate>


Edited by DtEW - 3/28/2009 at 07:04 am
post #3 of 11

my quiver = 139 waist, 105 waist, 84 waist. Pow, Touring, Groomers. 

 

As my ski school director buddy says about his daily driver (Squad)-- "Either you can ski them or you can't."

 

It's not that those that have 4-5 pairs over 100 in the waist are building an enormous quiver because they require so many pairs, it's just that they buy a pair each year and don't want to mimic what they have. Quite simple really. 

 

Quiver = we don't replace or discard skis that aren't broken. My 105 (gotama) is 6 years old. 

post #4 of 11

IMHO, I would go for breadth. I think if done right you can have a very versatile quiver. Next year I think I will be very close to having it. BD Havoc 88 waist, stiff with traditional camber, light for spring touring, Moment Tahoe 96 waist, stiff with traditional camber, great all-arounder, BD Justice 115 waist, med stiff with tip rocker, great powder and crud, Moment Comi 135 waist, med stiff with tip rocker, ultimate deep powder ski.

 

I think a stiff ski with tip rocker can ski many conditions well, no tip dive in powder but still stiff enough to ski crud and other variable conditions well.

post #5 of 11
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by samurai View Post

Quiver = we don't replace or discard skis that aren't broken. My 105 (gotama) is 6 years old. 

Hmmm, for me, quiver = we keep churning skis looking for the perfect ride, and sell what doesn't get used enough each season or didn't hit expectations. Survival of the fittest. 

 

But you and DtEW maybe on to something about a daily driver, period. No adjustment to a new envelope, no remorse about the other ski you shoulda brought. Just plug and play. My idea about bunching skis in one zone could lead to lotta second guessing on slope.

post #6 of 11

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post

 

But you and DtEW maybe on to something about a daily driver, period. No adjustment to a new envelope, no remorse about the other ski you shoulda brought. Just plug and play. My idea about bunching skis in one zone could lead to lotta second guessing on slope.

 

Oh, I was just playing Devil's Advocate.   I actually have a quiver just because I can't resist new shiny stuff.

 

However, it's actually along the very same line of thought that you articulated here (second-guessing your ski choice for the day) that my new two-pair quiver was conceived:  all-mountains (Legend 8000) for when I expect no/little new snow; and versatile-ish big mountain twins (Gotamas) when I expect a dump, or will go sidecountry.  I can't really imagine a circumstance in which I would second-guess my choice, unless the weatherman totally screws the pooch and completely misses an impending big storm.

 

I guess that qualifies as broad range with reduced overlap.

 

Deep might work if you live in a resort town.

post #7 of 11

The daily driver idea is fine for many people, but it's hard to argue against the idea that having the best tool for the job at hand is the better way to go (this is assuming you know how to use each of the tools available to you). 

 

My thoughts are that the quiver can be built both ways and which way is right depends on the skier.  If the skier regularly does different types of skiing (racing, frontside groomers, backside exploring, etc.) then having a ski for each type of skiing makes sense.  If you're a skier that could care less about racing or the frontside groomers then it makes more sense to have a quiver built with skis of similar dimensions, but with varying degrees of flex, etc. to deal with changes in conditions, not different types of skiing.

post #8 of 11

i built my quiver for the widest breadth of conditions and styles possible. as in, i'd be retarded if i accidentally grabbed the "wrong" pair of skis on any given day. however, i usually tend to go for the most versatile pair of skis within a specifc category, so that when i hit variable conditions during the day, i'm not left fruit-booting around. but, ultimately, what it comes down to is that when i grab a pair of skis, i ski them. i don't think about how much better i could be on a different pair of skis for every given condition. some skis will make things easier for you and some will offer no help at all. but at the end of the day, YOU'RE the turkey making them go down hill, and if you can't do it... well then i'll find you somebody who CAN.

 

for reference, i have a four ski quiver that i can easily tell which ski i want the second that i reach the parking lot. here is my thought process when i'm picking which pair of skis to bring out each day:

 

- 192 salomon rockers (127mm) --> the sky is pukING

- 187 dynastar xxl's (109mm) --> the sky pukED... at least somewhat recently

- 179 k2 pe's (85mm) --> am i going to do park? am i riding with intermediates? does the hillside look like a teenage frycook's face?

- 178 dynastar contact 4x4's (75mm) --> when was the last time the sky puked? all i can remember are thaw/refreeze cycles...

post #9 of 11

Of course, width is only one factor in determining the appropriate skis for a quiver.

 

The quiver should be built up with arrows in the following order.

 

An arrow for the type of skiing you enjoy the most and do often enough to justify owning your own.

 

An arrow for the type of skiing you do most often, if different from the above.

 

Arrows for the type of skiing you have decided to work on to expand your horizons.

 

Additional arrows for the type of skiing you also do and enjoy, wether based on amount of enjoyment or amount of use is a very tough personal choice.

 

Since I don't get to ski out west, my quiver is mostly skinny, with the main difference being turn radius, ranging from extremely large radius antique SG skis down to 13-m SL radius for hardpack conditions, and a GS-radius non-race (Volant) ski for crud and deeper snow.

post #10 of 11

Broad is much better than deep IMO, but there are many exceptions.


Many Epic skiers see a broad range of conditions. They may ski hardpack close to home but travel to bigger western mountains 10 or more days a year. Even Utah skiers can see week after week of sunny skiing and conditions can get just as icy an Vermont.


Exceptions include skiers who specialize. Racers, mogul skiers, sidecountry or the "I-only-bother-skiing-the-deep-stuff" skiers who are not interested in variable skiing. These skiers may have multiple skis that are about the same width, but ofter have different sidecuts, stiffness and camber.


I can understand both strategies, but I have a very broad quiver. I use the 172cm Dynastar Contact4x4, the 192cm length Watea 101 and I have replaced my Volant Spatula with the rockered Praxis Protest.

 

 

Most no-new-powder days bring out the Contact 4x4. The Watea 101 is my middle ski for Utah and my powder ski for Colorado & Alberta.I have yet to try the Praxis Protest, but this will be my deep and deep-n-heavy snow ski. The Watea 101 is for those days that are require 20% or more hardpack skiing while in transit to the slopes covered in crud or untracked snow. Thats the plan anyway.

 

If I was lighter, I might downsize each of my three skis. At 200 lbs plus, the 75mm wide 4x4, 101mm wide Watea and 130mm wide Praxis should do it all.

 

Michael

 

 

post #11 of 11


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by WILDCAT View Post

 

 Even Utah skiers can see week after week of sunny skiing and conditions can get just as icy an Vermont.


Nothing in the Rockies gets as icy as Vermont.  Ever.

 

You know better.

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